noob about to make a final decision. Please help.

Chuff420

Active Member
At 1.4 amps it would be about 7-8% more output. It would certainly pay for itself, just a matter of whether you want to spend the cash up front or not.
Thanks. Validates my thinking. 33% increase in LED cost for a 7-8% gain isn't worth it.

3500k 3590s at 66.09 rated up to 18000 lumens each, so 2 would be $132 and 36000 lumens, Spend the same amount on 2530s for 13.25 rated at 8000 lumens, so for the same price you could run 10 of these chips for a total of 80000 lumens.... Seems like a no brainer, I ordered 20 of them! These are max values, so real live output will be less, but the logic still applies. Also you could run all 10 from a single driver in 2 5 cob strings @ 700mA, make them dimmable and if you loose a cob/string, the other string still wont be over driven and in danger of frying.
Ooohhhhh... Things just got a lot better.

I'm guessing you're talking about these CXB2530-0000-000N0UT230H COBS at $15 each? http://www.cutter.com.au/proddetail.php?prod=cut2827

Would I need an HLG-185H-C1400B or HLG-120C-1050B to drive 10 of the 2530s, or a completely different driver all together?

Thanks everyone.
 

thetr33man

Well-Known Member
Youd want one putting out 1400mA that can handle the voltage load, 36 x 5 = 180, so you could run 2 strings of 5 on HLG-240H-C1400b at 700mA, I dont see any reason not to.... Driver is a couple bucks more, but its pretty BA if you can find one.
 

Rahz

Well-Known Member
I think a relevant point here is that all these chips are based on the same technology. In the case of 3070 and 3590 at 1.4 amps, the extra light is coming at no extra electrical cost. In fact the voltage on the 3590s ls slightly lower. If you compare the two on an efficiency basis the equality becomes more apparent. Run the 3590 at 1.75 amps and the efficiency is similar to the 3070s (at 1.4) and there's a corresponding increase in light for the extra wattage. Run the 2530s at a low enough current and you can achieve similar cost/efficiency/output but there's nothing special about them in that regard. In fact I think the smaller CXBs are slightly less efficient at nominal current (so also less efficient at lower percentages of nominal). I've recommended 2530s before in limited height situations, but if you've got 5 feet and no filter in the flower chamber it's smart to stick with 3070s or 3590s.
 

thetr33man

Well-Known Member
I think a relevant point here is that all these chips are based on the same technology. In the case of 3070 and 3590 at 1.4 amps, the extra light is coming at no extra electrical cost. In fact the voltage on the 3590s ls slightly lower. If you compare the two on an efficiency basis the equality becomes more apparent. Run the 3590 at 1.75 amps and the efficiency is similar to the 3070s (at 1.4) and there's a corresponding increase in light for the extra wattage. Run the 2530s at a low enough current and you can achieve similar cost/efficiency/output but there's nothing special about them in that regard. In fact I think the smaller CXBs are slightly less efficient at nominal current (so also less efficient at lower percentages of nominal). I've recommended 2530s before in limited height situations, but if you've got 5 feet and no filter in the flower chamber it's smart to stick with 3070s or 3590s.
Yup, this is true, only real difference is at that price, they are much more affordable, and you can distribute the light better, but there is more work in wiring them, etc.
 

Chuff420

Active Member
Excellent!!

HLG-240H-C1400B is $152.
http://www.x-on.com.au/DetailsPage.aspx?MFRN=HLG-240H-C1400B&MFR=Mean Well&ID=YXTErbVe90BSKBCwRDfVwg==

So 10 x CXB2530 @ $15 ea + 1 x HLG-240H-C1400B @ $152 ea = Grand Total: $302

I haven't crunched the exact numbers 'cause I've yet to figure out exactly how to do it, but it sounds to me that this combination will be somewhere in the order of twice as much lumens for ~$30 less than the previous 4 x CXB3070 set-up, which I didn't think could be improved on.

This is looking like the final solution unless somewhere far more knowledgeable than me can better it.

Thanks everyone.
 

HydroDC

Well-Known Member
Excellent!!

HLG-240H-C1400B is $152.
http://www.x-on.com.au/DetailsPage.aspx?MFRN=HLG-240H-C1400B&MFR=Mean Well&ID=YXTErbVe90BSKBCwRDfVwg==

So 10 x CXB2530 @ $15 ea + 1 x HLG-240H-C1400B @ $152 ea = Grand Total: $302

I haven't crunched the exact numbers 'cause I've yet to figure out exactly how to do it, but it sounds to me that this combination will be somewhere in the order of twice as much lumens for ~$30 less than the previous 4 x CXB3070 set-up, which I didn't think could be improved on.

This is looking like the final solution unless somewhere far more knowledgeable than me can better it.

Thanks everyone.
Rahz designs, builds and sells LEDs. He has considerable experience and you'd do well to follow his lead.
 

Chuff420

Active Member
I think a relevant point here is that all these chips are based on the same technology. In the case of 3070 and 3590 at 1.4 amps, the extra light is coming at no extra electrical cost. In fact the voltage on the 3590s ls slightly lower. If you compare the two on an efficiency basis the equality becomes more apparent. Run the 3590 at 1.75 amps and the efficiency is similar to the 3070s (at 1.4) and there's a corresponding increase in light for the extra wattage. Run the 2530s at a low enough current and you can achieve similar cost/efficiency/output but there's nothing special about them in that regard. In fact I think the smaller CXBs are slightly less efficient at nominal current (so also less efficient at lower percentages of nominal). I've recommended 2530s before in limited height situations, but if you've got 5 feet and no filter in the flower chamber it's smart to stick with 3070s or 3590s.
OK. So now where crunching the numbers. This is the shit I've yet to absorb.

Does this mean that the 3070 & 3590 are more efficient than the 2530, therefore costing less for the output produced? If I had to choose between cheaper power or better buds... Do I need to go on?

Unless my thinking is off, because the 2530 are half price @ $15 ea, the simple fact that I can get twice as many LEDs for the same price and still fall within my budget would dictate that this would give me the best "Bang for Buck" for my budget. Correct?

Is that right?

Yup, this is true, only real difference is at that price, they are much more affordable, and you can distribute the light better, but there is more work in wiring them, etc.
I love wiring, so that's not a problem.

What I have yet to discuss is that I read in one of the threads that the closer the driver is to the COBS, the better. More losses with longer wiring or something along those lines. Since I plan on mounting my drivers approximately 1 metre from the COBs, is this something I need to take into consideration?

Thanks. Very happy with everyone's input.
 

Airwalker16

Well-Known Member
Excellent!!

HLG-240H-C1400B is $152.
http://www.x-on.com.au/DetailsPage.aspx?MFRN=HLG-240H-C1400B&MFR=Mean Well&ID=YXTErbVe90BSKBCwRDfVwg==

So 10 x CXB2530 @ $15 ea + 1 x HLG-240H-C1400B @ $152 ea = Grand Total: $302

I haven't crunched the exact numbers 'cause I've yet to figure out exactly how to do it, but it sounds to me that this combination will be somewhere in the order of twice as much lumens for ~$30 less than the previous 4 x CXB3070 set-up, which I didn't think could be improved on.

This is looking like the final solution unless somewhere far more knowledgeable than me can better it.

Thanks everyone.
. ... dude go to straightroadelectronics.com and ask for Julia Merin. She'll do 240-1750's for $70-80 just let her know airwalk1616 from RIU sent you
 

Chuff420

Active Member
Rahz designs, builds and sells LEDs. He has considerable experience and you'd do well to follow his lead.
I'm still learning so excuse my ignorance, but the fact that the 2530 is half price could be the determining factor. If they put the 3590 or 3070 on special at half price, then that would definitely get my attention.

Having said that, I'm not automatically discounting anything. I'd love to get deeper into the discussion with you guys, but I lack the knowledge to get to your levels.
 

Danielson999

Well-Known Member
. ... dude go to straightroadelectronics.com and ask for Julia Merin. She'll do 240-1750's for $70-80 just let her know airwalk1616 from RIU sent you
First you tell him to buy 3590's when they aren't in his budget. Now you tell him to order a driver from the USA. Come on man...
 

Rahz

Well-Known Member
Unless my thinking is off, because the 2530 are half price @ $15 ea, the simple fact that I can get twice as many LEDs for the same price and still fall within my budget would dictate that this would give me the best "Bang for Buck" for my budget. Correct?
A comparison would need to be made using the datasheets, but offhand I think you will only get a couple thousand more lumens at most for that extra 50 watts.

If you want to make a comparison and get a good idea of the difference, use the current -vs- relative luminous flux charts in the datasheets to find the flux percentage at the chosen current and multiple that by the lumens @ nominal current of the bins you're looking at.
 

Chuff420

Active Member
First you tell him to buy 3590's when they aren't in his budget. Now you tell him to order a driver from the USA. Come on man...
Honest mistake. I'm sure Airwalker16 wasn't aware of my location.

A comparison would need to be made using the datasheets, but offhand I think you will only get a couple thousand more lumens at most for that extra 50 watts.

If you want to make a comparison and get a good idea of the difference, use the current -vs- relative luminous flux charts in the datasheets to find the flux percentage at the chosen current and multiple that by the lumens @ nominal current of the bins you're looking at.
This is the shit I'm trying to get my head around.

Until then, I will have to rely on the knowledge of you guys.

So basically I'm going to be consuming 50W more power for a couple of thousand extra lumens.

So if you were in my shoes, would you go with 4 x CXB3070 or 10 x CXB2530? I assume the 2530 will give slightly better yield but is it worth the extra 50W of power consumption?
 

thetr33man

Well-Known Member
If anyone has time/knowledge to do this comparison, Id be interested in seeing the results... I know the 2530's are rated at 800mA, so if you run them at 700mA you should get a bit of a efficiency boost there, but might not be as much as you would with the 3590's.
 

Chuff420

Active Member
A comparison would need to be made using the datasheets, but offhand I think you will only get a couple thousand more lumens at most for that extra 50 watts.

If you want to make a comparison and get a good idea of the difference, use the current -vs- relative luminous flux charts in the datasheets to find the flux percentage at the chosen current and multiple that by the lumens @ nominal current of the bins you're looking at.
My understanding is that these scales are logarithmic, but for the sake of the discussion, is this how the comparisons are calculated?

CXB2530.jpg


Running 2 strings of 5 x CXB2530 on HLG-240H-C1400b at 700mA per string would place flux percentage (50c % column) at somewhere between the 0.5 x 0.8 rows meaning I would achieve somewhere between 44.22% & 49.09% efficiency, and then I take this % value and multiply it by 3818 which is the lumens @ nominal current of the bin to get my final lumen output.
 

Rahz

Well-Known Member
I was referring to the manufacturer datasheets, but didn't realize Supra had released a spreadsheet for the 2530.

Doing it that way, you can take the efficiency value and multiply by the output wattage to get PAR wattage and do a comparison that way.
 

Chuff420

Active Member
I was referring to the manufacturer datasheets, but didn't realize Supra had released a spreadsheet for the 2530.

Doing it that way, you can take the efficiency value and multiply by the output wattage to get PAR wattage and do a comparison that way.
CXB2530.jpg

Could you please rephrase that using spreadsheet column names from the above for sake of clarity.

That way there is no confusion.

Thanks.

EDIT: Better still, a legend of the column names would allow understanding of everything within the spreadsheet. The COB spreadsheet thread lacks this legend, which is unfortunate as it makes it difficult for noobies like me to make the best informed decisions.
 
Last edited:

Rahz

Well-Known Member
The 50C% figure is the electrical efficiency. At .7 amps it will be about 46%.
At .7 amps and 35.5 volts the 2350 uses 24.85 watts. .46 x 24.85 = 11.43 PAR watts x 10 cobs = 114 PAR watts.

If you do the same for the 3070 you should find them putting out just over 100 PAR watts, so with 2530s you'd get about 10% more light for 25% more electricity. Not really a bad deal when considering the yield, but for $30 more you could run 5 3070s at 50 watts each... :)
 

Chuff420

Active Member
So,

Once we have selected a driver and know its current output, we simply divide that output by the total current draw of the COB(s) and this will give us Amp figure which is represented by the Amps column in the spreadsheet. Then we multiply corresponding [50c %] * [50c diss W] figures giving us our PAR / Watt figure. Multiply our PAR / Watt figure by the number of COBs and we have our Total PAR Watts. Correct?

Once I know the Total PAR Watts, how do I calculate the total lumen output? I can see from the 2530 spreadsheet above that it's 3818 for 0.8A, so what would it be for 0.7A and how did you come to that figure?

Thanks.
 
Last edited:

Danielson999

Well-Known Member
These are approximates.

CXB3070 x 4 on one HLG-185H-C1400

50w x 4 cobs = 200w dissipation
200w x 50% efficiency = 100 par watts
10% losses from open space, reflectors, walls etc = 90 par watts
90par watts x 4.51 conversion factor = 405.9 PPF
3.5' x 1.8' = 6.3sqft divided by 10.76(sqft per m2) = 0.58m2
405.9PPF divided by 0.58m2 = 699.8 µmols/sec/m2 or PPFD
 
Top