Npk ratio advice wanted

From what I've read one of the ideal ratios for veg and flower is as below.

veg 3-1-2
flower 1-1-2

I'm not at these numbers and are looking for a little advice or input

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Liquid Feeds:

Plagron terra grow 3-1-3 ( max rec 5m per L )

Plagron terra bloom 2-2-3 ( max rec 5m per L) Use until flush

Plagron pure enzym (1m per L) Breaks down dead roots, soil conditioner, stop using 4th week of flower.

Growers edge: Nitrogen 15.5% - Nitrate14.4% - Ammoniacal 1.1% / Cal Ca0 26.3% (max rec 2m per L) - Increases cell wall strength etc. Rec use from veg until flush.

Cal/mag (2m per L) rec use from flower until flush. I've used 1/4 strength only as preventative

Powders:

Bud start: 0-39-25 // Use when blossoms first establish, then again in 2 weeks time (rec use 1gram per 10L)

Carbo blast: From 2nd week flower (recc use 1g per 4L)

Heavies: 0-48-28 // use last 3 weeks before flush (recc use 6g per 20L)

Ton o bud: 0-49-32 // use once flowers begin or are established (does not say how often but google search and people say use only once.. not many seemed impressed saying it gives off yellowing leaves). Recc use 5g per 10L

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Some growing info and help on npk ratios

Plants were veg from seed for around 10 weeks. From 5 weeks old bumped up to on 3/4 strength plag grow. For roughly 8 weeks they were on full strength growers edge.


On first week of flower feed they had:

3/4 strg plag grow / transition
Full strength growers edge
1/4 calMag
Full strength plag enzym

ph always as close to 6.5 as I can get (test kit)

Ironically I was concerned the combination of plag grow and growers edge was giving far too much N but the plants are showing bright green growth that is said to be a sign of lack of N. On the other hand theirs a little leaf curl here and there that is a sign of too much?.

That aside I want to reduce the N amount from week 4 but as you can see my current bloom ratio of 2-2-3 will not allow it. Is it possible I can reduce the bloom fert to 3/4 strength and use half strength ton o bud until flush?.

Or, just get on with using half to 3/4 strength terra bloom 2-2-3, use half strength powders at recommended intervals and perhaps cut out the use of growers edge after week 3 or 4?.

This spreadsheet will tell you the NPK ratio resulting from mixing multiple products. You can then adjust the amounts of those products to change the ratio.

In veg, I think 3-1-2 is high for soil. I can only do N=2 without getting N toxicity. But, people use Dyna-Gro Foliage Pro which is 3-1-2. Maybe it depends on the source of N, etc.

In flower, I do 1-1.5-1.8 in mid-flower. I finish at 1-2-1.8.

My schedule (and the products I use) is documented here.

Flowki said:

On the other hand theirs a little leaf curl here and there that is a sign of too much?.

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A photo would help. But, yes, if the tips are clawed, that's a sign of N toxicity.

Flowki said:

That aside I want to reduce the N amount from week 4 but as you can see my current bloom ratio of 2-2-3 will not allow it. Is it possible I can reduce the bloom fert to 3/4 strength and use half strength ton o bud until flush?.

Click to expand...

I wouldn't flush unless you've been overfeeding. But, your ratio is 1-1-1.5. You don't need to go lower than that. You could raise P a little (to 1.2 or 1.5). That would, relatively speaking, reduce your N. I wouldn't do that until early to mid flower.

Flowki said:

Or, just get on with using half to 3/4 strength terra bloom 2-2-3, use half strength powders at recommended intervals and perhaps cut out the use of growers edge after week 3 or 4?.

Click to expand...

The best way to know what to do is play with it in the spreadsheet mentioned in the previous post. That will tell you exactly the NPK ratio you're making. (It will also help you get out of these boutique "lineup" products, if you ever wanted to. Instead of thinking "this much of this bottle" you'd think in terms of NPK ratio. The product you use to get there isn't too important.).

az2000 said:

A photo would help. But, yes, if the tips are clawed, that's a sign of N toxicity.

Click to expand...

For the week two transition would using 1/2 plagron grow and cut out the growers edge be enough of a N cut?. Or should I go even lower, maybe 1/4, then in 3rd week use 1/4 grow and 1/4 bloom followed by week 4 > 1/2 bloom finished transition?.

I'm not familiar with those products. If it were me, I would enter the details from the bottles into the spreadsheet. Then see what it looks like at the quantities you're using; what it looks like if you change the quantities, combine grow and bloom, etc.

az2000 said:

I'm not familiar with those products. If it were me, I would enter the details from the bottles into the spreadsheet. Then see what it looks like at the quantities you're using; what it looks like if you change the quantities, combine grow and bloom, etc.

Click to expand...

That spread sheet will be helpful but I'm wondering if reducing the N intake is enough for the current toxicity or if a flush is required?.

Flowki said:

That spread sheet will be helpful but I'm wondering if reducing the N intake is enough for the current toxicity or if a flush is required?.

Click to expand...

From the pictures, I'd say yes.

az2000 said:

From the pictures, I'd say yes.

Click to expand...

Pic< they are of that nature but not as severe. The yellowing has not spread all the way up the leaves perhaps near half way if that and only on the top sites of LST. The lower leaves are about as dark here and there with some random tip down turn here and there. I have some purple stems here and their that I put down to cold, it's winter and even with thermo and heating I am getting around 59 night and 72 day 50% humid.

What I also may add is that the only thing changed before the yellowing was adding enzym and adding 1/4 str cal-mag. Growers edge already has cal in it (didn't read that too well). Could too much cal do this?. They have also been moved from under cfl in veg to hps flower in the last week, dunno if that matters. I gave them a day or two in veg under the hps to get use to the light few feet away, maybe not long enough?.

I suspsect growers edge has done so much more harm than good, firs ttime using it. It also drops the ph way low so I have to up it back to 6.5. The water run off on last check was reading in around 6.3 to 6.4, though.

Flowki said:

Could too much cal do this?.

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I doubt it. (Ca inhibits K, from the chart attached.). But, without a real picture of the plant we're talking about, we'll never know what "this" is.

I don't think N toxicity is the end of the world. There's worse things that can happen.

Flowki said:

They have also been moved from under cfl in veg to hps flower in the last week, dunno if that matters. I gave them a day or two in veg under the hps to get use to the light few feet away, maybe not long enough?.

Click to expand...

I don't think that would cause N tox. But, again, I don't know what you're looking at. It could have been the enzyme which improved your soil health, making more nutrients available.

Flowki said:

It also drops the ph way low so I have to up it back to 6.5. The water run off on last check was reading in around 6.3 to 6.4, though.

Click to expand...

I abandoned the Cult of Calmag because of that. I found I was in a vicious circle. I used "calmag" which acidified my nutrients, also adding N that I didn't need. I "up" it -- which added more salts I didn't need. When I stopped using "calmag" I was able to stop ph'ing. Life has been so much simpler since then. I mix tap and RO water to get 150ppm, I mix my nutrients, I go back to bed.

What I found, with all those salts, I would get salt buildup. Then it looked like a "calmag" deficiency, so I'd add more "calmag." Which required my "up." (more salts I didn't need, over and over.).

You could reduce N using the spreadsheet to find a reasonable ratio. Or, cut the strength. I get N-tox just from overfeeding. That's something you wouldn't expect because you always think about nute burn (the tips of leaves). But, I can get N-tox without any burnt tips just from overfeeding.

Az2000 you change your avatar so much lol. Hey you live in Az?
Flowki imo a KISS aproach from the start is the best way to go. Im a noob so i may be out of my league here. Here is what i do. Start with a good base water i use ro mixed wirh tap to 150-200ppm. If you choose to use ro water adding back in cal and mag will be a must and in the correct rarios. I just use aa good 2 part veg and bloom nute, Botanicare Pro grow and bloom. Its easy to find at most local indoor gardening supply stores, lost in cost and it works. Grow is 3-2-4 bloom is 1-4-5. I feed light and try to watch and learn my plants so i know what they need. This has worked well for me and has resulted in healthy plants and good harvests.

az2000 said:

I doubt it. (Ca inhibits K, from the chart attached.). But, without a real picture of the plant we're talking about, we'll never know what "this" is.

I don't think N toxicity is the end of the world. There's worse things that can happen.



I don't think that would cause N tox. But, again, I don't know what you're looking at. It could have been the enzyme which improved your soil health, making more nutrients available.



I abandoned the Cult of Calmag because of that. I found I was in a vicious circle. I used "calmag" which acidified my nutrients, also adding N that I didn't need. I "up" it -- which added more salts I didn't need. When I stopped using "calmag" I was able to stop ph'ing. Life has been so much simpler since then. I mix tap and RO water to get 150ppm, I mix my nutrients, I go back to bed.

What I found, with all those salts, I would get salt buildup. Then it looked like a "calmag" deficiency, so I'd add more "calmag." Which required my "up." (more salts I didn't need, over and over.).

You could reduce N using the spreadsheet to find a reasonable ratio. Or, cut the strength. I get N-tox just from overfeeding. That's something you wouldn't expect because you always think about nute burn (the tips of leaves). But, I can get N-tox without any burnt tips just from overfeeding.

Click to expand...

Ok thnx, I'll back off to half feed, cut the growers edge and see if things improve before end of transition. You might be onto something with the enzym, didn't think of that, also using air pots so it makes even more sense.

-the greening seems to be fading on it's own. I've read a little more and going to put it down to either some kind of light shock force increasing production on new growth or shock from increased uptake from the enzym soil conditioning.