NUTRIENTS for beginner. Help. Pics and video.

SamWaterstone

Active Member


    • Hey guys and gals;

      2 months ago i thought i was ready to get down and dirty and bust my green growing cherry. I was WAY WRONG! Needed to figure out Ventilation system to keep adequate temperature and moisture in my Grow Room (closet.)

      My Closet: L: 4'7'' x W: 5'10'' = 23.97 Sqaure Feet. So lets just say 25 square feet. With a height of 7 feet 10 inches. I will be covering my walls completely with Mylar and leaving my door Closet Door White.

      Ventilation system: i bought two 6 inch centrifugal fans; one for exhaust with carbon filter and one for intake for fresh outdoor air. See pics for detail. My tubing goes straight out to the Roof. (note that i have 2 "The Speedster" motor speed controls for both fans, but no pictures.)

      Lights: ONE 600 watt Apollo Lighting Kit with Metal Halide for Vegetative Stage and High Pressure Sodium for Flowering. I will also be surrounding my plants with 2700k and 6500k CFL's. Planning to use my 2700k's with the Metal Halide and the 6500k's with the High Pressure Sodium.

      Now I have to Figure out SOIL! NUTRIENTS! WATER! SOIL! NUTRIENTS! WATER!

      I want to grow Organic and have been looking at Roots Organics by Aurora Innovations. I hear great things about them. I've looked over their feeding schedules, Master, Player, and Soul schedules; link: http://www.aurorainnovations.org/feedingschedules.html

      but this investment is really adding up. So far i've invested about $500 bucks on Materials and Labor. Do any of you guys or gals stand behind Roots Organics? But my real question i need answered is: What is the Best/Cheapest nutrient system/schedule i can follow? Do i really need all these products for explosive growth? what is the simplest/cheapest way to feed my plants N-P-K?

      Also, i looked into FOX FARMS as well and their Feeding schedule seems a lot simpler and more economic due to less nutrients used. But i've read that Roots Organics blows them out of the water.

      http://foxfarmfertilizer.com/frontpa...schedules.html

      Please Help a Newbie out. Want to get started ASAP! Please ask me any additional Questions and I will be glad to answer them.

      today is Sunday, 9:35 AM and i work @ 11am. So I'll check this back out around 1030 pm tonight.

      Need to Bust my Green Cherry!


      Thanks in Advance.


      Sammy.






 

Cann

Well-Known Member
There are two options here. Either buy a brand of soil and use liquid nutrients, etc. Or construct your own soil that will not need additional nutrients. In the end it is much more rewarding and cheaper to build your own soil - but it can be a lot of work and more expensive up front. I have used roots organic before and it is pretty damn good as far as bagged soil goes. Expect to get fungus gnats with the soil...this is common across all brands. Roots will run out of juice about the 2nd week flowering if you are not feeding somehow. Don't know how much soil you need, but assuming you would want about 6 cuft, you could get 4 bags of roots for around $50. It will cost you at least $100 to build 6cuft of your own soil, but you will also have the ingredients to build much more soil in the future for cheap...

Go to a nursery - pick up kelp meal ($7 for 3 lbs), crab meal($12 for 3.5lbs), neem meal ($15 for 5 lbs, if they have it but they probably wont...), glacial rock dust ($20 for 40lbs...), and peat moss ($9 for 3 cuft). If you can't find peat at the nursery, go to home depot or lowes and get their Premier brand (should be 3+ cuft bales). For your scale you probably only need 1 bag, maybe 2 if you want to make a hot soil mix for flowering (I highly recommend this). Then go to a feed store, and get some rice hulls ($8 for 60lbs...its sold as horse bedding) or pumice ($12 for 40lbs, it's marketed as "dry stall"), and crushed oyster shells ($7 for 25lbs - optional but a great addition). Then source some quality humus, such as fresh local earthworm castings, or fresh compost. If you have to used bagged humus (I highly recommend against this!!!) find the highest quality earthworm castings you can (natures solution is good, big worm by aurora is decent, don't have experience with anything else...). Low quality humus = low quality soil and there is no getting around that. The worm castings might be the most expensive part of the mix, about $1 per lb in my experience for true quality castings, and you are going to want at least 1.5 cuft which is around 30lbs I would think. Here is the mix:

50% peat
25% aeration (pumice, rice hulls, perlite if you have absolutely no choice)
25% humus (EWC, compost, alaska humus if you have to...)

per cuft of this mix, add:

3-4 cups glacial rock dust
1/2 cup kelp meal
1/2 cup crab meal
1/2 cup neem meal
1/4 cup oyster shell

Now the one downside is that you will have to let this mix mature for about 30 days before you use it, similar to subcools supersoil if you are familiar...after 30 days you can plant into this directly, you don't use it as a hot mix like supersoil which only goes on the bottom 1/3 of the pot. This will provide your plants with everything they need through flowering, with the exception of a few microbially charged AACT's to kickstart your microherd. In the end it is much more effective than roots, much cheaper, and IMO much more enjoyable (creating your own soil from scratch is a good experience for everyone). If you need to plant right now, I would say pick up one bag of roots and use that sparingly until your soil is done maturing. Your plants will be fine in roots for the first month at least...

Invest in an RO system if you can...or just buy from the RO water machines around town. Also, look into some sort of mycorrhizal supplement - I would suggest MycoGrow by Fungi perfecti (www.fungi.com), or Oregonism XL by aurora. Also, if you can't find neem cake locally you can find it here (www.neemresource.com). Neem provides systemic defense against mildew, pests, etc. while providing nitrogen and other micronutrients. Make sure you get neem cake, not neem oil!

IMO this style of growing will produce better results than using fox farm soil and fox farm nutes, etc. at a fraction of the cost in the long run - and it will be much more rewarding to boot!

When my current soil finishes maturing I will be running a side by side comparison of Roots 707 + the roots line (buddha grow, buddha bloom, trinity, ancient amber, HP2, HPK, etc.) vs. my soil mixes with straight RO water and the occasional AACT and FPE (fermented plant extract) consisted of nettle, comfrey, horsetail, chamomile, or some combination of those. I wish I had the results already so I could show you lol.

Good luck :bigjoint: and let me know if you need help sourcing any of those ingredients. I know it can be a daunting task..but hard work pays off in the end. Also, if you are near a beach you can collect kelp, oyster shells, etc. Scrounge around if you are trying to be cheap...some of these things are easier to find than you might think


EDIT: sorry for the essay in your thread :dunce:...hope it makes sense
 

SamWaterstone

Active Member
Cann. Thank you soooo freaken' very much for the time yout put to type out this information for me. Gonna study this, break it down, and research some more. Thank you, Thank you, thank you.
 

Cann

Well-Known Member
No Problem :)

Not sure where you live, but if there are leaves on the ground right now those are a very valuable resource. I collected about 4 trashbags worth of leaves/leaf mold today - which will go straight into my worm bin/compost pile. You could even include some leaf mold in your soil mix without any issues. The key here is thinking outside the box of the hydro store and utilizing the world around you for it's amazingly bountiful natural resources!

So how you comin on sourcing ingredients?
 

Jack Harer

Well-Known Member
WOW!! 2 stellar posts by one member in the same thread!! Listen to Cann. I'd rep him again for the second post but it won't let me. I agree with ALMOST everything he told ya, but I personally wouldn't use the RO or distilled. That doesn't make it wrong, or me right tho....
All I can add is that you ought to check out this line: www.espoma.com. Mixed into the soil at the beginning, all you REALLY need to do is water after that, but an AACT (Actively Aerated Compost Tea) supplement (Kelp, Alfalfa, Guano, etc) will be beneficial. Espoma products aren't "hyped" on these forums like AN, Dutch Master or the like, but they are every bit as good if not better, and cost CONSIDERABLY less, and are locally available in almost every part of the country.
EWC: www.itsaulnatural.com VERY high quality castings.
If you have access to Rabbit Breeders (Or Rabbit Poo), it's the BEST of all the manures (IMHO) and I now use it in conjunction with EWC instead of the BioTone, but for prepackaged, easy to use organic nutes, Espoma wins hands down. Use the search bar and see. Search for Espoma and you'll find volumes.
You can't attack organics with a hydroponics mind set. The plants are feeding off decomposing organic matter broken down to usable forms by the micro fauna and fungi in the soil, and are slow release for the most part. You don't have to feed on a "schedule", or follow some nute manufacturers "recipe". Properly done, an organic grow is pretty much self regulating. Any changes are gonna happen slowly as well, so if you DO run into probs, you'll have time to correct it before decimation occurs like it did with me my first couple grows. I started using chemical salt ferts (Fast acting) and had NO time to correct the over feeding before I figured out what was going on. Once you get your mindset right, organics is truly the easiest and most forgiving way to grow anything, Also, get out of the "scientifically formulated for cannabis" thought. MJ is a plant, nothing more. All you need to do is give it the proper nutrition you'd give any other plant. These nute companies would have you believe that if you use thier products, you'll get bread loaf sized buds with 30% THC content!! LOL. That is all determined by the genetics and growers ability.
If you have any questions, you can always hit me, however I'm on rather sporadically and I'm sure Cann would be more than willing to help as well. There are many here who will gladly help you out as long as you look like you're trying to learn and not be spoon fed.
 

Jack Harer

Well-Known Member
Grown with Espoma BioTone Starter Plus w/ AACT supplement every other watering: Soil very similar to Canns:







I promise you can't go wrong with this!! FF, AN or Roots organics wont be any BETTER, thats for sure.
 

match box

Well-Known Member
Just a work about air intake fron outdoors.When I set mine up I turned on the fan before I put on a bug screen on and I sucked aphaids into my grow room from out side. Not what ya want.
 

Jack Harer

Well-Known Member
Lady Bugs and preying Manti. Can be bought either online or at any decent Nursery or Garden Center, And a better air filter than just a screen will stop that!
 
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