Obama can cite the 14th Amendment of the Constitution

sync0s · Jul 29, 2011

Willyßagseed;6031873 said:
You guys should read the Constitution some time, Like I said the Government is not here to make a profit. The Constitution CLEARLY states it is to serve "We the People".

And nowhere do I mention free lunches.

this is just the Preamble.......

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence,promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

"The laying of taxes is the power, and the general welfare the purpose for which the power is to be exercised." - Thomas Jefferson

“With respect to the two words ‘general welfare,’ I have always regarded them as qualified by the detail of powers connected with them. To take them in a literal and unlimited sense would be a metamorphosis of the Constitution into a character which there is a host of proofs was not contemplated by its creators.” –James Madison

WillyBagseed · Jul 30, 2011

So the student James Madison disagrees with his mentor Thomas Jefferson.......

How has that Supply side, Voodoo economics from the University of Chicago economics treated you for the last 30 years? lol

For personal freedoms I am all for Libertarian beliefs, show me a country that has used a Libertarian economic model that has worked and I will show you Somalia.

Communism on paper owns
Libertarian economic policy owns on paper.

What do they have in common? Greed + humans will always win out, raping the masses if you let it run its course.

And no, I am not a "Liberal" when it comes to politics, Clinton was one of the worst Presidents we have had (some of the blame goes to both houses pressuring him) Sure he had a balanced budget before Governor Bush took over and really spent his ass off, esp keeping war costs off the books but, NAFTA and the telecom bill have helped Supply side economics rape this country of jobs and has helped the USA in its race to the bottom.

The Cato Institute and The Heritage Foundation were both founded by and for rich , old, scared and greedy white males. How a typical average citizen gets brainwashed by them I have no idea.

Wait, I forgot. You have a real chance to join their ranks as another rich person even tho the game is fixed against all but a few.

WillyBagseed · Jul 30, 2011

Brain structure differs in liberals, conservatives: study
(AFP) – Apr 7, 2011
WASHINGTON — Everyone knows that liberals and conservatives butt heads when it comes to world views, but scientists have now shown that their brains are actually built differently.
Liberals have more gray matter in a part of the brain associated with understanding complexity, while the conservative brain is bigger in the section related to processing fear, said the study on Thursday in Current Biology.
"We found that greater liberalism was associated with increased gray matter volume in the anterior cingulate cortex, whereas greater conservatism was associated with increased volume of the right amygdala," the study said.
Other research has shown greater brain activity in those areas, according to which political views a person holds, but this is the first study to show a physical difference in size in the same regions.
"Previously, some psychological traits were known to be predictive of an individual's political orientation," said Ryota Kanai of the University College London, where the research took place.
"Our study now links such personality traits with specific brain structure."
People with a large amygdala are "more sensitive to disgust" and tend to "respond to threatening situations with more aggression than do liberals and are more sensitive to threatening facial expressions," the study said.
Liberals are linked to larger anterior cingulate cortexes, a region that "monitor(s) uncertainty and conflicts," it said.
"Thus, it is conceivable that individuals with a larger ACC have a higher capacity to tolerate uncertainty and conflicts, allowing them to accept more liberal views."
It remains unclear whether the structural differences cause the divergence in political views, or are the effect of them.
But the central issue in determining political views appears to revolve around fear and how it affects a person.
"Our findings are consistent with the proposal that political orientation is associated with psychological processes for managing fear and uncertainty," the study said.
Copyright © 2011 AFP. All rights reserved. More »

Mr Neutron · Jul 30, 2011

SlicePro said:
Key word there is MAY. Last time I checked, the Government will only have enough cash to cover 55% of its bills for August IF the debt ceiling is not raised. NOBODY can be guaranteed a payment if the US cannot meet 45% of its obligations. That includes Social Secuirity, Verterans, Military, Disabled, interest on DEBT, SNAP programs, payments to the Chinese government.

So the Chinese should get paid before our own people? The people on social security aren't getting something for nothing, they were forced to pay into the system with a promise of getting their money back, so if anybody should be at the top of the list, it should be them. Nobody forced the chinese to buy our debt and I think they will survive missing a payment or two, whereas people who rely on SS would be devastated if they missed a check.
Raising the debt ceiling is tantamount to giving a junkie "one more hit". Government is a "money junkie". The more you give it, the more it takes. The more it takes, the more it spends. The more it spends, the more we lose.

Mr Neutron · Jul 30, 2011

Luger187 said:
what do you think the government is for?

Government's number one responsibility is to protect our rights and liberties. If they would do this, it would make our lives better. Some will interpret that statement to mean that government needs to poke it's collective nose into every aspect of our lives and correct our behavior for our own good.
What government IS, is force... and the less of it, the better.

undertheice · Jul 30, 2011

Willyßagseed;6033116 said:
For personal freedoms I am all for Libertarian beliefs, show me a country that has used a Libertarian economic model that has worked and I will show you Somalia.

Greed + humans will always win out, raping the masses if you let it run its course.

isn't this always the way. some schmuck claims to agree with all the freedoms of a libertarian point of view, but bitches about the responsibilities and the necessary pains involved in maintaining those freedoms. perhaps you can figure out a way to excise the greed from humanity and create your own little paradise. the simple fact is that those personal freedoms you want come with a downside, everyone else must have them as well. no matter their intentions, they must all be allowed to pursue their dreams or your freedom to do so will disappear as soon as there is a change in the ideological climate.

The Cato Institute and The Heritage Foundation were both founded by and for rich , old, scared and greedy white males. How a typical average citizen gets brainwashed by them I have no idea.

wow, you managed to incorporate agism, sexism, racism and a childish stereotype into one inane sentence. i hate to break it to you, but you'll find that most anything in the western world has the fingerprints of those greedy old white guys all over it. they're white because of the european influence and europe has been dominated my that particular color, they're men because the strength of the male and the fact that he is unencumbered by procreation has placed him in the position of the builder and provider, they're old because it usually takes time to acquire the means to create anything lasting and they're greedy because self-interest is simply a matter of survival. if asia had risen to global dominance, you would be saying the same thing about old asian guys you disagreed with. wait another thirty years and you may get the chance.

Mr Neutron · Jul 30, 2011

Willyßagseed;6031873 said:
You guys should read the Constitution some time, Like I said the Government is not here to make a profit. The Constitution CLEARLY states it is to serve "We the People".

And nowhere do I mention free lunches.

this is just the Preamble.......

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence,promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

"The laying of taxes is the power, and the general welfare the purpose for which the power is to be exercised." - Thomas Jefferson

It is one thing to read the Constitution and quite another to understand it's meaning.

"The first and governing maxim in the interpretation of a statute is to discover the meaning of those who made it." James Wilson

The "general welfare" clause has been used by socialists to promote unconstitutional activity for over the last 100 years.

What about, "direct taxes shall be apportioned" and "the power to coin money and regulate it's value", just to name two?
What about the 1st, 2nd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 9th and 10th amendments?

"If Congress can employ money indefinitely to the general welfare, and are the sole and supreme judges of the general welfare, they may take the care of religion into their own hands; they may appoint teachers in every State, county and parish and pay them out of their public treasury; they may take into their own hands the education of children, establishing in like manner schools throughout the Union; they may assume the provision of the poor; they may undertake the regulation of all roads other than post-roads; in short, every thing, from the highest object of state legislation down to the most minute object of police, would be thrown under the power of Congress. ... Were the power of Congress to be established in the latitude contended for, it would subvert the very foundations, and transmute the very nature of the limited Government established by the people of America."
James Madison

NoDrama · Jul 30, 2011

Willyßagseed;6033149 said:
Brain structure differs in liberals, conservatives: study
(AFP) – Apr 7, 2011
WASHINGTON — Everyone knows that liberals and conservatives butt heads when it comes to world views, but scientists have now shown that their brains are actually built differently.
Liberals have more gray matter in a part of the brain associated with understanding complexity, while the conservative brain is bigger in the section related to processing fear, said the study on Thursday in Current Biology.
"We found that greater liberalism was associated with increased gray matter volume in the anterior cingulate cortex, whereas greater conservatism was associated with increased volume of the right amygdala," the study said.
Other research has shown greater brain activity in those areas, according to which political views a person holds, but this is the first study to show a physical difference in size in the same regions.
"Previously, some psychological traits were known to be predictive of an individual's political orientation," said Ryota Kanai of the University College London, where the research took place.
"Our study now links such personality traits with specific brain structure."
People with a large amygdala are "more sensitive to disgust" and tend to "respond to threatening situations with more aggression than do liberals and are more sensitive to threatening facial expressions," the study said.
Liberals are linked to larger anterior cingulate cortexes, a region that "monitor(s) uncertainty and conflicts," it said.
"Thus, it is conceivable that individuals with a larger ACC have a higher capacity to tolerate uncertainty and conflicts, allowing them to accept more liberal views."
It remains unclear whether the structural differences cause the divergence in political views, or are the effect of them.
But the central issue in determining political views appears to revolve around fear and how it affects a person.
"Our findings are consistent with the proposal that political orientation is associated with psychological processes for managing fear and uncertainty," the study said.
Copyright © 2011 AFP. All rights reserved. More »

LOL this isn't science, its called theater. there is NO DIFFERENCE in Brains. LOL I have heard of stupid shit before, but this really takes the cake. I would just LOVE to see the study, I bet it would only take 1.23 milliseconds to refute its findings.

Mr Neutron · Jul 30, 2011

Willyßagseed;6032010 said:
The America I grew up in took a shit in about 1981, a year after I got out of high school.

... and this is supposed to have some meaning?

Willyßagseed;6032010 said:
Every "war" we have been in since WW2 has been Undeclared. Technically, the USA has not been in a war since 1945 ish.

So this excuses it? Technically, those killed and maimed in those wars are still dead and maimed. Technically, the lies used to justify those wars are still crimes against "we the people". Technically, the money wasted in perpetuating those wars is still wasted.

hazyintentions · Jul 30, 2011

Willyßagseed;6033149 said:
Brain structure differs in liberals, conservatives: study
(AFP) – Apr 7, 2011
WASHINGTON — Everyone knows that liberals and conservatives butt heads when it comes to world views, but scientists have now shown that their brains are actually built differently.
Liberals have more gray matter in a part of the brain associated with understanding complexity, while the conservative brain is bigger in the section related to processing fear, said the study on Thursday in Current Biology.
"We found that greater liberalism was associated with increased gray matter volume in the anterior cingulate cortex, whereas greater conservatism was associated with increased volume of the right amygdala," the study said.
Other research has shown greater brain activity in those areas, according to which political views a person holds, but this is the first study to show a physical difference in size in the same regions.
"Previously, some psychological traits were known to be predictive of an individual's political orientation," said Ryota Kanai of the University College London, where the research took place.
"Our study now links such personality traits with specific brain structure."
People with a large amygdala are "more sensitive to disgust" and tend to "respond to threatening situations with more aggression than do liberals and are more sensitive to threatening facial expressions," the study said.
Liberals are linked to larger anterior cingulate cortexes, a region that "monitor(s) uncertainty and conflicts," it said.
"Thus, it is conceivable that individuals with a larger ACC have a higher capacity to tolerate uncertainty and conflicts, allowing them to accept more liberal views."
It remains unclear whether the structural differences cause the divergence in political views, or are the effect of them.
But the central issue in determining political views appears to revolve around fear and how it affects a person.
"Our findings are consistent with the proposal that political orientation is associated with psychological processes for managing fear and uncertainty," the study said.
Copyright © 2011 AFP. All rights reserved. More »

Seriously?

What this is generalizing is that "conservatives" are fearful and "liberals" are uncertain? Haha, it almost seems to be the case..
Truthfully I find labels to be a nuisance but if it so happens that wanting a reduced federal government which focuses on controlling the borders , limited intervention in states, and promoting the overall health of the USA makes me a "conservative" then hoo-fucking-rah! Now I'm also a huge supporter harnessing wind,water, and solar power and moving on from oil powered vehicles which most people call "liberal" views but I call it's using common sense!

Come on, I doubt anyone here really wants to keep tacking on dollars to the $45k debt the government has signed each and every one of it's citizens up for.

beardo · Jul 30, 2011

Mr Neutron said:
Government's number one responsibility is to protect our rights and liberties. If they would do this, it would make our lives better. .

I would think that is what was meant by, promote general welfare.

Mr Neutron · Jul 30, 2011

Willyßagseed;6033116 said:
So the student James Madison disagrees with his mentor Thomas Jefferson.......

No, you are misinterpreting the phrase "general welfare".

Willyßagseed;6033116 said:
For personal freedoms I am all for Libertarian beliefs, show me a country that has used a Libertarian economic model that has worked and I will show you Somalia.

Why are so many on this forum so obsessed with Somalia? If you think Somalia is a Libertarian country then you do not know what Libertarianism is.

Willyßagseed;6033116 said:
Communism on paper owns
Libertarian economic policy owns on paper.

Huh?

Willyßagseed;6033116 said:
What do they have in common? Greed + humans will always win out, raping the masses if you let it run its course.

What we have been doing is not working, so maybe we should go back to our founding principles that seemed to working for the first half or our history.

Willyßagseed;6033116 said:
The Cato Institute and The Heritage Foundation were both founded by and for rich , old, scared and greedy white males. How a typical average citizen gets brainwashed by them I have no idea.

Dismissed as opinion.

Mr Neutron · Jul 30, 2011

hazyintentions said:
Come on, I doubt anyone here really wants to keep tacking on dollars to the $45k debt the government has signed each and every one of it's citizens up for.

... some do

Mr Neutron · Jul 30, 2011

beardo said:
I would think that is what was meant by, promote general welfare.

I totally agree.

sync0s · Jul 30, 2011

Willyßagseed;6033116 said:
So the student James Madison disagrees with his mentor Thomas Jefferson.......

How has that Supply side, Voodoo economics from the University of Chicago economics treated you for the last 30 years? lol

For personal freedoms I am all for Libertarian beliefs, show me a country that has used a Libertarian economic model that has worked and I will show you Somalia.

Communism on paper owns
Libertarian economic policy owns on paper.

What do they have in common? Greed + humans will always win out, raping the masses if you let it run its course.

And no, I am not a "Liberal" when it comes to politics, Clinton was one of the worst Presidents we have had (some of the blame goes to both houses pressuring him) Sure he had a balanced budget before Governor Bush took over and really spent his ass off, esp keeping war costs off the books but, NAFTA and the telecom bill have helped Supply side economics rape this country of jobs and has helped the USA in its race to the bottom.

The Cato Institute and The Heritage Foundation were both founded by and for rich , old, scared and greedy white males. How a typical average citizen gets brainwashed by them I have no idea.

Wait, I forgot. You have a real chance to join their ranks as another rich person even tho the game is fixed against all but a few.

1) You are wrong.

"They are not to do anything they please to provide for the general welfare, but only to lay taxes for that purpose. To consider the latter phrase not as describing the purpose of the first, but as giving a distinct and independent power to do any act they please which might be for the good of the Union, would render all the preceding and subsequent enumerations of power completely useless. It would reduce the whole instrument to a single phrase, that of instituting a Congress with power to do whatever would be for the good of the United States; and, as they would be the sole judges of the good or evil, it would be also a power to do whatever evil they please... Certainly no such universal power was meant to be given them. It was intended to lace them up straitly within the enumerated powers and those without which, as means, these powers could not be carried into effect." --Thomas Jefferson: Opinion on National Bank, 1791. ME 3:148

2) There is a lot of evidence of how being free market has actually helped Somalia, and the meddling of foreign governments keep undermining the improvements. Additionally, you need to stop comparing libertarianism with anarchy. If they were the same thing we wouldn't call ourselves "Libertarians," we'd call ourselves "Anarchists." Learn the differences before you try to argue political philosophy.

3) Greed is the driving force for improvements. Do you honestly think that any of the conveniences you enjoy now days was not developed under the pretense of greed? How would we expect our society to further develop if we keep trying to undermine our goals of wealth and prosperity? The only raping of the masses is our government regulations that are allowing corporations to become monopolies by preventing other businesses within the field from being successful. When we have monopolies under government regulated economies there becomes no need for new product development, improvement, or safety for that matter.

4) You want to talk about rich white guys? How about Paul Krugman, the main driver behind regulation, income distribution. Why is it never mentioned that he worked on the economic and political advisory panel for Enron in the late 90s? And he wants to talk about other people being overly greedy and taking advantage of the masses? I think you're the one that is brainwashed.

WillyBagseed · Jul 30, 2011

how am I misinterpreting the phrase? The Constitution that follows the preamble breaks down what can and cannot be done. I am not claiming it is an all out law or anything else. That is why I gave JT's qoute. If you read the Constitution it is vague enough in many areas to be interpreted in different ways.

EX:
The US Supreme court does NOT have the power to rule on whether something is Constitutional or not.
The Fed is illegal.

Many, Many things that are law are in fact unconstitutional, now as to the general welfare, it depends on your interpretation of the context of the Constitution itself as to what is and is not legal.

Good thing Franklin D. Roosevelt isn't here or get his way this would be part of the Constitution.....http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Bill_of_Rights

WillyBagseed · Jul 30, 2011

sync0s said:
1) You are wrong.

2) There is a lot of evidence of how being free market has actually helped Somalia, and the meddling of foreign governments keep undermining the improvements. Additionally, you need to stop comparing libertarianism with anarchy. If they were the same thing we wouldn't call ourselves "Libertarians," we'd call ourselves "Anarchists." Learn the differences before you try to argue political philosophy.

3) Greed is the driving force for improvements. Do you honestly think that any of the conveniences you enjoy now days was not developed under the pretense of greed? How would we expect our society to further develop if we keep trying to undermine our goals of wealth and prosperity? The only raping of the masses is our government regulations that are allowing corporations to become monopolies by preventing other businesses within the field from being successful. When we have monopolies under government regulated economies there becomes no need for new product development, improvement, or safety for that matter.

4) You want to talk about rich white guys? How about Paul Krugman, the main driver behind regulation, income distribution. Why is it never mentioned that he worked on the economic and political advisory panel for Enron in the late 90s? And he wants to talk about other people being overly greedy and taking advantage of the masses? I think you're the one that is brainwashed.

Are we talking about the income redistribution to corporations? The same welfare that is many many times the "welfare" poor people get.......... ?

Sinsay · Jul 31, 2011

A great part of the problem of the 14th is that people think it freed the black but did it ? 90 later they was still to use a black bathroom/sit at the back of a bus /to not laugh at a white person What the 14th done was free the corporations to be unaccountable for their actions Thoses who didnt know that are more then just retards in my book
Those soldiers wasnt fighting for freedom as these arent

Mr Neutron · Jul 31, 2011

Willyßagseed;6035443 said:
how am I misinterpreting the phrase? The Constitution that follows the preamble breaks down what can and cannot be done. I am not claiming it is an all out law or anything else. That is why I gave JT's qoute. If you read the Constitution it is vague enough in many areas to be interpreted in different ways.

Many, Many things that are law are in fact unconstitutional, now as to the general welfare, it depends on your interpretation of the context of the Constitution itself as to what is and is not legal.

It's only vague if you do not understand the framer's intent. The only interpretation that counts is that of the author's of the Constitution.
The examples I gave earlier about direct taxes being apportioned and only congress has the power to coin money and regulate it's value can only be interpreted one way.
Ultimately, it all boils down to force. We can debate all day long on the meaning of this or that and whether something is Constitutional or not but when the rubber meets the road, it's all about force and when the government has more firepower than the people, we either submit or die.

Charlie Ventura · Jul 31, 2011

Willyßagseed;6033149 said:
Brain structure differs in liberals, conservatives: study
(AFP) – Apr 7, 2011
WASHINGTON — Everyone knows that liberals and conservatives butt heads when it comes to world views, but scientists have now shown that their brains are actually built differently.
Liberals have more gray matter in a part of the brain associated with understanding complexity, while the conservative brain is bigger in the section related to processing fear, said the study on Thursday in Current Biology.
"We found that greater liberalism was associated with increased gray matter volume in the anterior cingulate cortex, whereas greater conservatism was associated with increased volume of the right amygdala," the study said.
Other research has shown greater brain activity in those areas, according to which political views a person holds, but this is the first study to show a physical difference in size in the same regions.
"Previously, some psychological traits were known to be predictive of an individual's political orientation," said Ryota Kanai of the University College London, where the research took place.
"Our study now links such personality traits with specific brain structure."
People with a large amygdala are "more sensitive to disgust" and tend to "respond to threatening situations with more aggression than do liberals and are more sensitive to threatening facial expressions," the study said.
Liberals are linked to larger anterior cingulate cortexes, a region that "monitor(s) uncertainty and conflicts," it said.
"Thus, it is conceivable that individuals with a larger ACC have a higher capacity to tolerate uncertainty and conflicts, allowing them to accept more liberal views."
It remains unclear whether the structural differences cause the divergence in political views, or are the effect of them.
But the central issue in determining political views appears to revolve around fear and how it affects a person.
"Our findings are consistent with the proposal that political orientation is associated with psychological processes for managing fear and uncertainty," the study said.
Copyright © 2011 AFP. All rights reserved. More »

Are these guys at it again? Sheesh!, in their last endeavor, they tried to claim that Black people have rhythm, Jews are cheap, Asians can't drive and White Guys can't jump.

Obama can cite the 14th Amendment of the Constitution

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