Obama using kids as human shields...

Samwell Seed Well

Well-Known Member
weird you bitch when you have to shell out a little more but if that little more is for profit is ok, if some guy who has tons of money benefits vs someone who needs medical help benefits . . . .

ya we see your point its ok to rob peter as long Jesus LLC gets the extra margin

retard argument . . . . . .the tax's you pay, biulds roads you never drive on . . so does that mean you shouldnt have to pay that tax either

if you dont like the shared responsibility system we use , start up your own US Luxemburg and stfu
 

NLXSK1

Well-Known Member
let me get this straight: you hate tax breaks, but you like it when people profit off your health?

tell me how well the profit motive works in other countries that cover all their citizens for less than we pay to just cover some of ours.
Look into the percentage of profit for any healthcare company and you will see that they are in line with many other industries.

And hell yes, I want people to get paid well and make a profit when my health is concerned. That ensures innovation, competition, and more choices in healthcare.

Do you want your doctor to get paid minimum wage?
 

NLXSK1

Well-Known Member
Cherry picking info? How can you say it's cherry picking info if its actual facts? I'm not leaving out valid information to make a point. Per capita..countries that have gun bans have a lower gun crime rate vs. Americas gun crime rate per capita...and that's obvious. Do they have higher rates of stabbings and clubbings? I have no idea, but I'm sure we can find that information out somewhere. With out looking up that info I'll give you that one. They have higher stabbings and clubbings. But how many murders per capita do these countries have? If it's lower then our murder rate per capita then whats the problem? Are those people dying from these stabbings and clubbings? lol I can't help but laugh about this one, not poking fun at you or anything, I'm not even being sarcastic, I just haven't heard the phrase "clubbing" in a long time and it caught me off guard. I pictured some Irish dude standing outside a "pub" with a club just wacking the shit out of people.

O.K., back to reality. Lets say the rate of stabbings and clubbings go up, which I'm sure they would because they wouldn't have much of a choice of weapons if guns were out of the equation. But I'd much rather take my chances with a knife or club than go up against a mad man with a fully automatic assault rifle with 100 round magazine any day. I'm sure there aren't mass clubbings going on in schools or theatres that are killing 20+ people at a time. Isn't that the point, to stop all the mass killings that's going on. Sure, we may end up with a few more people that have staples in their head and sliced up torsos, but they have a better chance of survival. I don't know, maybe it's just me, I just don't see a need for having assault rifles and 100 round mags going around so easily.

Sure criminals won't care about these new regulations, just like they never cared about the ones we already have. But like I keep saying, eventually it would pay off and we would see less mass shootings. Eventually people would get too scared to illegally sell these weapons to crazy people because the penalty would be so harsh it wouldn't be worth the $300 for an uzi with scratched off serial numbers.

So, you have no problem with the society around you getting more violent as long as we curtail shootings? Are you high? I want myself, my neighbors, my family and my community to be safe from violence, not subject to more of it based on a fear of legal gun ownership.
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
Look into the percentage of profit for any healthcare company and you will see that they are in line with many other industries.

And hell yes, I want people to get paid well and make a profit when my health is concerned. That ensures innovation, competition, and more choices in healthcare.

Do you want your doctor to get paid minimum wage?
non-profit doesn't mean the doctor gets paid minimum wage, douchebag.

ever look into how germany does it? everything is non-profit there, and they have massive competition and innovation, not to mention better results than us and they do it for less.
 

NLXSK1

Well-Known Member
non-profit doesn't mean the doctor gets paid minimum wage, douchebag.

ever look into how germany does it? everything is non-profit there, and they have massive competition and innovation, not to mention better results than us and they do it for less.
But Obamacare was supposed to solve all that... What happened?
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
But Obamacare was supposed to solve all that... What happened?
you are so dumb it hurts.

the PPACA did nothing to make health care insurers not for profit. although plenty of people got rebate checks if their insurers spent too much money on administrative costs rather than health care.
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
not to mention the PPACA is not even close to fully implemented. but don't let that stop ya, ANALEXCESSGAY1. you are not known for dealing in reality.
 

NLXSK1

Well-Known Member
you are so dumb it hurts.

the PPACA did nothing to make health care insurers not for profit. although plenty of people got rebate checks if their insurers spent too much money on administrative costs rather than health care.
And those same insurers are upping their rates to ensure that next year they have more than enough revenue to cover that 80%... GG!!!
 

NLXSK1

Well-Known Member
not to mention the PPACA is not even close to fully implemented. but don't let that stop ya, ANALEXCESSGAY1. you are not known for dealing in reality.
Yes, rates will continue to climb through 2014 exactly because it is not even close to fully implemented....

But dont let the CBO price estimates prove the reality of the lies Obama stated when promising perfect universal coverage for every American for much less than previously thought (as long as the government is allowed to loot your bank account)...

Reality... LOL!!!
 

Canna Sylvan

Well-Known Member
but this is the classic cherrypicked statistic of the antis. Confiscate guns, and overall shootings will go down. Nobody is contesting that. However crime, violent crime surges. Trading shootings for stabbings and clubbings is not socially progressive.
They are too part of the progressive movement.

.... Stabbings and clubbings are in the Horror section, while, shootings are in the Action section. Well, they used to be, now they're on their respective Redbox tab.
 

NLXSK1

Well-Known Member
not sure if you noticed premiums triple in the 20 years before obama entered office, moron.

it's obama's fault that the sun rose today, right?

dipshit.
When Obama stood up and promised the nation, god and everyone that his plan would lower rates... That is when he went on the hook for the rates...

They are rapidly going in the other direction and you want to give him a pass on that??

You credit the Dem's for the sun rising and curse the Repub's for the sun setting. Why should I expect any different? LOL!
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
When Obama stood up and promised the nation, god and everyone that his plan would lower rates... That is when he went on the hook for the rates...

They are rapidly going in the other direction and you want to give him a pass on that??
before the PPACA has even been implemented?

moron!
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Cherry picking info? How can you say it's cherry picking info if its actual facts? I'm not leaving out valid information to make a point. Per capita..countries that have gun bans have a lower gun crime rate vs. Americas gun crime rate per capita...and that's obvious. Do they have higher rates of stabbings and clubbings? I have no idea, but I'm sure we can find that information out somewhere. With out looking up that info I'll give you that one. They have higher stabbings and clubbings. But how many murders per capita do these countries have? If it's lower then our murder rate per capita then whats the problem? Are those people dying from these stabbings and clubbings? lol I can't help but laugh about this one, not poking fun at you or anything, I'm not even being sarcastic, I just haven't heard the phrase "clubbing" in a long time and it caught me off guard. I pictured some Irish dude standing outside a "pub" with a club just wacking the shit out of people.

O.K., back to reality. Lets say the rate of stabbings and clubbings go up, which I'm sure they would because they wouldn't have much of a choice of weapons if guns were out of the equation. But I'd much rather take my chances with a knife or club than go up against a mad man with a fully automatic assault rifle with 100 round magazine any day. I'm sure there aren't mass clubbings going on in schools or theatres that are killing 20+ people at a time. Isn't that the point, to stop all the mass killings that's going on. Sure, we may end up with a few more people that have staples in their head and sliced up torsos, but they have a better chance of survival. I don't know, maybe it's just me, I just don't see a need for having assault rifles and 100 round mags going around so easily.

Sure criminals won't care about these new regulations, just like they never cared about the ones we already have. But like I keep saying, eventually it would pay off and we would see less mass shootings. Eventually people would get too scared to illegally sell these weapons to crazy people because the penalty would be so harsh it wouldn't be worth the $300 for an uzi with scratched off serial numbers.
Cherrypicking is the act of selecting which facts you present in order too support a position that could be damaged by a wider reporting of facts. It's a sort of deception using only true elements; it's in the generation of false context that the deception is done.

(It's also a prime reason why S. Clemens placed statistics atop his famed hierarchy of lies. Mind you; I am not accusing you of lying i.e. deliberate deception. But the Net has given us such a wealth of unsorted and unconfirmed data that winkling the actual information out can be tough. You could be repeating a congenial but unproven nugget of Internet wisdom.)

In re gun v. overall violent crime, i will ask you a question about a fictional citizen who carries a concealed handgun. Is he
a) specifically arming against someone else with a gun, or
b) arming against any assault?
If b) (as i believe), then "assaults with a firearm" is only part of the story and likely to go down in reported frequency. If gun assaults go down but overall assaults go up, then I cannot see that as a fact supporting continued gun restrictions.

I have only found discussions of the overall-crime problems experienced by Australia and Britain in sites that are rather to the right of my preferred political stance. But unless you want to take the argumentum ad hominem, I ask you to consider the substance and not the source. cn

[SIZE=+1]Australia experiencing more violent crime despite gun ban[/SIZE]
Austin Gun Rights Examiner ^ | 8 April, 2009 | Howard Nemerov
Posted on Thursday, April 09, 2009 5:26:40 AM by marktwain
In a previous article, we examined the revisionist history of anti-rights proponents who claim that since Australia instituted their gun ban, there have been no mass murders, despite the recent “gun-free” massacre of 135 Australians.
It is a common fantasy that gun bans make society safer. Peace Movement Aotearoa, based in New Zealand, calls itself a “national networking organization…interested in peace and social justice.” A fact sheet on their site is entitled Sharp Drop in Gun Crime Follows Tough Australian Firearm Laws. It’s very revealing that gun ban organizations validate gun control by focusing on gun-involved violence while avoiding any mention of overall violent crime trends.
According to the Australian Bureau of Statistics, there was a slight drop in the percent of murders committed with a firearm between 2001 and 2007 (16.0% and 13.4%, respectively). However, the percentage was highest in 2006 (16.3%) and remains higher than the low of 8.9% in 2005. There is no difference in the use of a firearm in robbery: Guns were used in 6.4% of all robberies in both 2001 and 2007.
In 2002–five years after enacting its gun ban–the Australian Bureau of Criminology acknowledged there is no correlation between gun control and the use of firearms in violent crime: “The percentage of homicides committed with a firearm continued its declining trend since 1969.”
Even the head of Australia’s Bureau of Crime Statistics and Research, Don Weatherburn, acknowledged that the gun ban had no significant impact on the amount of gun-involved crime: There has been a drop in firearm-related crime, particularly in homicide, but it began long before the new laws and has continued on afterwards. I don't think anyone really understands why. A lot of people assume that the tougher laws did it, but I would need more specific, convincing evidence …
There has been a more specific … problem with handguns, which rose up quite rapidly and then declined. The decline appears to have more to do with the arrest of those responsible than the new laws. As soon as the heroin shortage hit, the armed robbery rate came down. I don't think it was anything to do with the tougher firearm laws.
Weatherburn also acknowledged that the best crime measure consists of “the arrest of those responsible.”
Moreover, Australia and America both experienced similar decreases in murder rates: Between 1995 and 2007, Australia saw a 31.9% decrease; without a gun ban, America’s rate dropped 31.7%.
Now for the rest of the story
During the same time period, all other violent crime indices increased in Australia: assault rose 49.2% and robbery 6.2%. Sexual assault–Australia’s equivalent term for rape–increased 29.9%. Overall, Australia’s violent crime rate rose 42.2%. At the same time, U.S. violent crime decreased 31.8%: rape dropped 19.2%; robbery decreased 33.2%; aggravated assault dropped 32.2%. Australian women are now raped over three times as often as American women (whom ABC reports are arming themselves at record rates because of safety concerns): More women, from soccer moms to professionals like the ones at the Blue Ridge Arsenal gun range in Chantilly, Va., are packing heat for sport, self-empowerment and protection.
While this doesn’t prove that more guns would impact crime rates, it does prove that gun control is a flawed policy. Moreover, for groups like Peace Movement Aotearoa, it’s apparently social justice when more people are raped, robbed, and assaulted, as long as they cannot defend themselves with firearms. This highlights the most important point: Gun banners promote failed policy irregardless of the consequences to the people who must live with them.
References
Violent crime rates compiled from Australian Bureau of Statistics and U.S. Federal Bureau of Investigation sources. Email request for Excel workbook.
**************************************** For in-depth analysis of the dangerous side-effects of Britain’s and Australia’s gun bans, read Chapter 2 of Howard’s book Four Hundred Years of Gun Control: Why Isn’t It Working?, which deconstructs the gun control agenda and motivates more people to support our civil right of self-defense
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
Cherrypicking is the act of selecting which facts you present in order too support a position that could be damaged by a wider reporting of facts. It's a sort of deception using only true elements; it's in the generation of false context that the deception is done.

In re gun v. overall violent crime, i will ask you a question about a fictional citizen who carries a concealed handgun. Is he
a) specifically arming against someone else with a gun, or
b) arming against any assault?
If b) (as i believe), then "assaults with a firearm" is only part of the story and likely to go down in reported frequency. If gun assaults go down but overall assaults go up, then I cannot see that as a fact supporting continued gun restrictions.

I have only found discussions of the overall-crime problems experienced by Australia and Britain in sites that are rather to the right of my preferred political stance. But unless you want to take the argumentum ad hominem, I ask you to consider the substance and not the source. cn

[SIZE=+1]Australia experiencing more violent crime despite gun ban[/SIZE]
Austin Gun Rights Examiner ^ | 8 April, 2009 | Howard Nemerov
Posted on Thursday, April 09, 2009 5:26:40 AM by marktwain
In a previous article, we examined the revisionist history of anti-rights proponents who claim that since Australia instituted their gun ban, there have been no mass murders, despite the recent “gun-free” massacre of 135 Australians.
It is a common fantasy that gun bans make society safer. Peace Movement Aotearoa, based in New Zealand, calls itself a “national networking organization…interested in peace and social justice.” A fact sheet on their site is entitled Sharp Drop in Gun Crime Follows Tough Australian Firearm Laws. It’s very revealing that gun ban organizations validate gun control by focusing on gun-involved violence while avoiding any mention of overall violent crime trends.
According to the Australian Bureau of Statistics, there was a slight drop in the percent of murders committed with a firearm between 2001 and 2007 (16.0% and 13.4%, respectively). However, the percentage was highest in 2006 (16.3%) and remains higher than the low of 8.9% in 2005. There is no difference in the use of a firearm in robbery: Guns were used in 6.4% of all robberies in both 2001 and 2007.
In 2002–five years after enacting its gun ban–the Australian Bureau of Criminology acknowledged there is no correlation between gun control and the use of firearms in violent crime: “The percentage of homicides committed with a firearm continued its declining trend since 1969.”
Even the head of Australia’s Bureau of Crime Statistics and Research, Don Weatherburn, acknowledged that the gun ban had no significant impact on the amount of gun-involved crime: There has been a drop in firearm-related crime, particularly in homicide, but it began long before the new laws and has continued on afterwards. I don't think anyone really understands why. A lot of people assume that the tougher laws did it, but I would need more specific, convincing evidence …
There has been a more specific … problem with handguns, which rose up quite rapidly and then declined. The decline appears to have more to do with the arrest of those responsible than the new laws. As soon as the heroin shortage hit, the armed robbery rate came down. I don't think it was anything to do with the tougher firearm laws.
Weatherburn also acknowledged that the best crime measure consists of “the arrest of those responsible.”
Moreover, Australia and America both experienced similar decreases in murder rates: Between 1995 and 2007, Australia saw a 31.9% decrease; without a gun ban, America’s rate dropped 31.7%.
Now for the rest of the story
During the same time period, all other violent crime indices increased in Australia: assault rose 49.2% and robbery 6.2%. Sexual assault–Australia’s equivalent term for rape–increased 29.9%. Overall, Australia’s violent crime rate rose 42.2%. At the same time, U.S. violent crime decreased 31.8%: rape dropped 19.2%; robbery decreased 33.2%; aggravated assault dropped 32.2%. Australian women are now raped over three times as often as American women (whom ABC reports are arming themselves at record rates because of safety concerns): More women, from soccer moms to professionals like the ones at the Blue Ridge Arsenal gun range in Chantilly, Va., are packing heat for sport, self-empowerment and protection.
While this doesn’t prove that more guns would impact crime rates, it does prove that gun control is a flawed policy. Moreover, for groups like Peace Movement Aotearoa, it’s apparently social justice when more people are raped, robbed, and assaulted, as long as they cannot defend themselves with firearms. This highlights the most important point: Gun banners promote failed policy irregardless of the consequences to the people who must live with them.
References
Violent crime rates compiled from Australian Bureau of Statistics and U.S. Federal Bureau of Investigation sources. Email request for Excel workbook.
**************************************** For in-depth analysis of the dangerous side-effects of Britain’s and Australia’s gun bans, read Chapter 2 of Howard’s book Four Hundred Years of Gun Control: Why Isn’t It Working?, which deconstructs the gun control agenda and motivates more people to support our civil right of self-defense
so rape and robberies will go up if you only have 10 bullets instead of 30 in your clip?
 
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