Organic super soil mix from scratch - for ROLS

hillbill said:

Thanks for posting that. Working through it now.

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Yes, thanks again, @greasemonkeymann .. I am too.

greasemonkeymann said:

I've always been a massive advocate for LOTS of aeration in organic soils, especially the mixes predicated on compost or castings.
i run nearly 50% aeration, and i have literally 8 types in the soil.
each doing different things

i found a REALLY good site regarding organics and techniques employed for container plants
it's easily the most comprehensive read I've found in regards to a properly constructed soil mix
check it out, it's worth reading, even if it's all stuff you know.

http://organicsoiltechnology.com/subsrtates-and-soils

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That is good info, I am up to about 30% now, not counting the DE. Maybe I will try going higher. Thanks for the link. I agree @hillbill that DE behaves like vermiculite, holding water.

greasemonkeymann said:

i admit i'm confused about the TDS readings you guys are taking, in an organic mix all that is going to change massively, especially if you are adding teas and water soluble nutrients, not sure what the advantage is of that test? but i am phrasing that as a question because i'm not sure if it's for another reason or not?

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In theory a TDS test should be useless but in practice I find I can assess a soil's fertility pretty well with a TDS test, based on a 12 hour soak. Normally the TDS rises by about 150-250ppm during the 12 hour soak and then stabiize, so I can extrapolate from an instant reading by adding 200ppm. For the test I use 25ml of soil and dump it into 100ml of water. Stir it up and you get an instant reading.

One of my goals for my recycled soil is to be able to go water-only as much as possible. It is amazing how a "rinsed" soil somehow has the ability to feed a plant, as long as it is very rich in fertility and microbial life. But seeing the plants starve in the FFOF proves that the soil fertility really has be up to par to keep up with flowering light intensity. I have never been able to reliability fix a problem like that by watering anything organic in and I suspect that watering in strong organic nutes may have some cost in terms of bud quality. I seem to get the best flavors and cleanest finish when the soil fertility is strong enough for water only so I have been trying to dial that in.

greasemonkeymann said:

testing your soil for soluble NPK with these little kits in organic growing is sorta not really applicable
because in true organics nutrients are soluble for very short periods from microbial interaction before they are uptaken by roots...I'm only mentioning that because it'd be frustrating to make adjustments based on the test results

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I have always trusted in composting and microbials to balance NPK out, but since I have been using the same soil and basically the same reamend recipe for years I was getting curious if maybe I was pushing it out of balance over time. The ladies seem to veg up very nicely in my current mix but my yields have a huge variability from 1.5 zip/bucket up to 4 per bucket. I wish I could figure out how to get 4 every time LOL

DonTesla said:

Scaling Tims recipe down would actually be using 1 Tbsp of castings per litre, and a tsp of molasses and thats it, eh? but nice to see hydrolysate instead of emulsion, thats good. Not that I use it but always good to see less metal in the homies mixes.

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Yes I brew these 1 liter teas from time to time and I use a biological scope to check them out. It works very well even with an aquarium air pump. That is all an indoor grower needs when it comes to microbial tea. For nutrient tea we probably want a larger brew and larger air pump. The nice thing about aquarium air pumps they are efficient and relatively quiet.

I alternate compost and feed teas but my feed teas are maybe 1/2 tbs/gal and no animal stuff, just Alfalfa and kelp and small amounts of green sand and oak ash with molasses a nod a few drops of Dr Bronner's. I use this in other plants also, works.

SupraSPL said:

In theory a TDS test should be useless but in practice I find I can assess a soil's fertility pretty well with a TDS test, based on a 12 hour soak. Normally the TDS rises by about 150-250ppm during the 12 hour soak and then stabiize, so I can extrapolate from an instant reading by adding 200ppm. For the test I use 25ml of soil and dump it into 100ml of water. Stir it up and you get an instant reading.

One of my goals for my recycled soil is to be able to go water-only as much as possible. It is amazing how a "rinsed" soil somehow has the ability to feed a plant, as long as it is very rich in fertility and microbial life. But seeing the plants starve in the FFOF proves that the soil fertility really has be up to par to keep up with flowering light intensity. I have never been able to reliability fix a problem like that by watering anything organic in and I suspect that watering in strong organic nutes may have some cost in terms of bud quality. I seem to get the best flavors and cleanest finish when the soil fertility is strong enough for water only so I have been trying to dial that in.



I have always trusted in composting and microbials to balance NPK out, but since I have been using the same soil and basically the same reamend recipe for years I was getting curious if maybe I was pushing it out of balance over time. The ladies seem to veg up very nicely in my current mix but my yields have a huge variability from 1.5 zip/bucket up to 4 per bucket. I wish I could figure out how to get 4 every time LOL

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ohhh yes, that was and is still my objective, to maintain a water only mix while keeping the results optimal.
one thing worth considering, as far as what you were saying on the variability of the results, i am discovering that the cation balance is CRUCIAL for container plants, in particular the magnesium, we gotta go light on that one..
i am seeing better results with less amounts (surprise!)
i totally agree with you on the difficulty in watering in organic nutrients for results, and we all know why, the microbial interaction with the nutrients is needed, and it takes time.
That being said i have tremendous results with using comfrey as a topdress, that is the perfect topdress in my world.
Not only is it pretty much cure-all for any defies it's also the perfect nitrogen to carbon ratio to literally NOT need anything added at all to compost on it's own, in fact that's how they normally make the comfrey-teas, more like a leachate they let the comfrey melt and then add water.
but shredded comfrey mixed in with fresh castings or compost is the best
but even dried comfrey is literally double the nutrients that kelp meal has, and nearly the same stuff in it, hence the nickname "land-kelp"
nearly a 2/.5/5.5 NPK, and that's not even considering the real benefit of it and that's in the micros, and it's healthy balance of cations
considering all that is nearly immediately available and it's no wonder why it's a nearly perfect nutrient
sorta why the seemingly pretentious/elitist "vegan" grows actually have some merit
that being that vegetative inputs are not only more "balanced" in regards to it's cations, but it's also readily bioavailable needing minimal microbial interaction. Conversely things like bone meals, crab meal, etc, and such require that interaction more and simply need more time.
The caveat being though that vegetative inputs are gone MUCH faster, and typically are more subjected to nutrient leaching over time as it's watered.
considering the relevancy i can recommend some really good soil inputs for slow release nutrients, as that's EXACTLY my objective.
commonly overlooked/underutilized things too, like slow release nitrogen in keratin forms, so either as hoof and horn meal, or doghair, beard clippings or even feather meal (ONLY if it's from a local hippy-type natural source as they contain arsenic otherwise)
or slow release natural forms of chitin/phosphorus such as insect meal (crushed insect chicken feed, usually it's mealworms and crickets)
but i reaaaally like adding the slow release stuff to the compost pile and then it's all golden by the time the compost is done also, and then slowly provides minute amounts of it over a large period time, juuuust like they like

SupraSPL said:

There are many ways to do it but this is how I have been doing it for ~4 years, always a work in progress and open to advice. The idea is to get nutrients from many amendments so the plants and microbes have access to anything they need and all bases covered.

Base mix:
20 Liters (1 bucket) Premier peat - OMRI - Lowes
20 Liters rinsed coco coir OMRI
10 Liters+ leaf mold/compost/EWC
5 Liters granular diatomaceous earth - Napa #8822 Floor Dry
200ml pulverized dolomite lime - Lowes
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This is the strength I use when adding fertility to a brand new base mix, for reamending a batch use half this amount.
400ml organic chicken manure from layer hens -Chicketty Doo Doo OMRI
200ml Organicare Pure Grow OMRI
200ml Azomite OMRI / elemite / glacial rock dust / basalt mineral mix
100ml north atlantic kelp meal OMRI Thorvin OMRI
100ml crab shell meal OMRI
100ml organic alfalfa meal
100ml high P indonesian guano
100ml neem cake OMRI CHN- neem cake OMRI BAS - neem cake KIS
100ml organic fish bone meal
100ml Zeolite Clinoptilolite
50ml greensand
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I put all this in a contractor trash bag, make sure it is slightly damp (add microbial tea if you like to), hold the bag shut and roll it to mix it all up. Let cook for at least 3-4 weeks ideally. If it dries out add some more water and mix.

I pot up into 5 gallon bucket with this mix, add Mykos during transplant, veg for 3 weeks and flower for ~ 60 days. If I get early fade I will water in bubbled nutrient teas, fish hydrolysate and/or organic blackstrap molasses.

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Isn’t diatomaceous earth the same stuff everyone is raving about now days about being good for getting rid of ticks an fleas on pet and lawns? If so that’s cool you can get it from Napa and it’s probably cheaper!

SupraSPL said:

This soil can be reused indefinitely and can yield big dense frosty buds. The buds do not need to be cured so they can be smoked or processed while they are at peak potency and flavor.

There is no need for drain holes or runoff, as long as you can gauge the weight of the pot to avoid swamping it. I use Earth Juice Assist(Yucca), fresh aloe or aloe powder to try and help the soil take moisture evenly but it is not necessary.

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Nice mature budz!

SupraSPL said:

Thnx man, I normally water with well water. 150 ppm 7.5 pH if I ram remembering correctly. It has a very slight sulphur smell which I figure is probably a good thing for the ladies.

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So that’s interesting! I have sulphur smell on my well, installed a whole home filtration system to try to eliminate the smell and protect the upgraded front loader machine I bought. My water test in the green with the cheap PH drop test. With all the build up that I have to suck out of my water heater every year or so, I thought it would be best to use distilled water... am I wrong?

SupraSPL said:

I will have to look into that more, peat sure is easier to use than coco because I have to rinse the coco before the first use. I figured when in doubt use both, like the "Roots Organic" soil does. I am going to try and increase the use of leaf mold and decrease both peat and coir going forward. It is amazing what I find in the woods under the leaves in the damper valley sections, beautiful black soil and half decayed layer of leaves with lots of fungal life.

DE is interesting stuff, relatively light weight and crackles when water hits it. Works as a surfactant to some extent and has a huge CEC. The NAPA #8822 DE is calcined so it holds its structure well over time, but the MSDS says it contains less than 1% crystalline silica (mild inhalation hazard) so it seems like the best of both worlds.
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I like pumice also but it is more expensive for me to source. Granular Zeolite clinoptilolite is also an interesting choice for aeration but expensive vs DE and pumice

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Really enjoying this thread! So decaying leaves is showing great results?! I have been thinking about trying a mixture with leaf matter! I have tones of trees on my acreage and I scrape them into huge piles every year. I have piles of them in different years or stages of decay!