Organics ARE chemicals

M

madodah

Well-Known Member
Matt Rize said:
does not make epsom salt organic. we can all agree that organic has many meanings other than OMRI.
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OMRI designation has so many classification escapes and exceptions I consider it a broad initial filter between chemical and organic food quality. Oregon has far tighter state standards for organic classification. I want to know the actual producer, raw materials list(s) and production methodology. Then, maybe.
 
DownOnWax

DownOnWax

Well-Known Member
Matt Rize said:
OMG, enough with damn semantics. Salt can refer to table salt, the common usage. But in science salt has a much broader definition, than just table salt. Really people?

The TRUTH is that organics tastes better, smokes better, is more environmentally sound, and safer for the gardener.

Let's do a test: you pour your synthetic nutes on your skin and i'll pour my vegan organic nutes on my skin, and we will see who gets burnt first.
Then, after the hospital cleans up your arm, we can go big and do the drink test. You drink your chemy nutes and I'll drink my food grade plant based organic nutes, and we'll see who gets sick first.
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My point is that SULFUR and SODIUM are NOT the same thing.

I am an Organic Advocate so read the thread before you ruin the argument.
 
doc111

doc111

Well-Known Member
DownOnWax said:
My point is that SULFUR and SODIUM are NOT the same thing.

I am an Organic Advocate so read the thread before you ruin the argument.
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And Sodium has nothing to do with salt. Sodium is considered an alkali metal. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium CaCl is a salt. CuSO4 is a salt. KCl is a salt. NaCl, or Sodium Chloride, or common table salt is just one type of salt. Just go ahead and click on that link I provided earlier.............oh hell, I'll just put it here for you again.:eyesmoke: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salt_(chemistry)

Salts are more than the white stuff you sprinkle on your popcorn. Just trying to educate and stop the spread of bad information. It's nothing personal. :mrgreen:
 
DownOnWax

DownOnWax

Well-Known Member
doc111 said:
And Sodium has nothing to do with salt. Sodium is considered an alkali metal. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium CaCl is a salt. CuSO4 is a salt. KCl is a salt. NaCl, or Sodium Chloride, or common table salt is just one type of salt. Just go ahead and click on that link I provided earlier.............oh hell, I'll just put it here for you again.:eyesmoke: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salt_(chemistry)

Salts are more than the white stuff you sprinkle on your popcorn. Just trying to educate and stop the spread of bad information. It's nothing personal. :mrgreen:
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Jesus dude, give it up


Sodium and Sulfur are 2 completely different things! Just because they begin with an S does not make them the same.

How many ways do I have to explain this to you?
 
DownOnWax

DownOnWax

Well-Known Member
Here is the Link you provided for me:

Did you mean: Salt (chemistry)
Look for Salt (chemistry on one of Wikipedia's sister projects: Wiktionary (free dictionary)Wikibooks (free textbooks)Wikiquote (quotations)Wikisource (free library)Wikiversity (free learning resources)Commons (images and media)Wikinews (free news source)
Wikipedia does not have an article with this exact name. Please search for Salt (chemistry in Wikipedia to check for alternative titles or spellings.
Other reasons this message may be displayed:
  • If a page was recently created here, it may not yet be visible because of a delay in updating the database; wait a few minutes and try the purge function.
  • Titles on Wikipedia are case sensitive except for the first character; please check alternative capitalizations and consider adding a redirect here to the correct title.
  • If the page has been deleted, check the deletion log, and see Why was my page deleted?.
 
Matt Rize

Matt Rize

Hashmaster
madodah said:
OMRI designation has so many classification escapes and exceptions I consider it a broad initial filter between chemical and organic food quality. Oregon has far tighter state standards for organic classification. I want to know the actual producer, raw materials list(s) and production methodology. Then, maybe.
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Agreed, Oregon is leading the way. "More info on sourcing/methods please" They keep it secret on purpose.
 
DownOnWax

DownOnWax

Well-Known Member
And do you SERIOUSLY believe in WIKIPEDIA?

I could write that I have the largest cock of all time on that site and your dumb ass would quote it tomorrow!
 
DownOnWax

DownOnWax

Well-Known Member
But I am Still laughing my ass off about that you think sodium and salt have nothing to do with each other!

You my friend are going in my signature :)
 
Matt Rize

Matt Rize

Hashmaster
DownOnWax said:
Seriously ARE you Joking? Sodium IS SALT
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You need to go to college and take CHEM 101 before you say one more thing about Sodium.

Sodium is an element, NOT SALT. Sodium is: "a silver-white soft waxy ductile element of the alkali metal group that occurs abundantly in nature in combined form and is very active chemically" http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sodium

SALT, as you know it (Sodium Chloride) is something we eat. BUT salt in gardening refers to " any of various compounds that result from replacement of part or all of the acid hydrogen of an acid by a metal or a group acting like a metal : an ionic crystalline compound" IONIC CRYSTALLINE COMPOUND, table salt being an example of a salt. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/salt

When people refer to salt build up in their media they do not mean table salt, or sodium, they mean ionic crystalline compounds... consider yourself informed.
 
Heisenberg

Heisenberg

Well-Known Member
Humus Joe said:
I think madodah is being taken out of context
IMO what he is saying, is that unscroupulous companies are praying on ppls limited understanding of wot organic really means and just cashin in on the big "O" word.

Which is exactly wot is happening, bcos most "organic" nutes are no better then synthetic. I mean, just call it hydro and be done.
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This is what I was trying to address in the first place. A cancer patient who doesn't know anything about cannabis tries to obtain some medicine. All she knows is that it's possible cannabis might make her final days less painful. When she tries to obtain medicine, she is told that she should buy organic bud, because it doesn't have toxins or chemical residue which could make her condition worse. This may be true in the strictest sense, but it implies that synthetically grown bud does have toxins, chemical residue and could make her condition worse. She doesn't care if the nutes are recyclable, she doesn't care what salt really is, she doesn't care if your nutes burn your skin faster than mine will, she only wants to safely ease her pain. Not wanting to risk making herself sicker, she pays a higher price for a product who's biochemical and genetic makeup are identical to it's synthetically grown counterpart. Being sick she doesn't have much money, but the salesman has convinced her to pay a higher price through misinformation and fear. How can anyone defend this?
 
cerberus

cerberus

Well-Known Member
Heisenberg said:
I take your points as they were intended, without insult.

Skeptiod is a peer reviewed, critical thinking podcast which has strict rules when judging evidence. The author often states not to take his word for anything, and provides links for you to decide on your own.

I am in fact very interested in the sympony of microlife that benefit a plant. My DWC suddenly developed a slime issue and after spending too much money on sterlizing products and having none of them work, I found that adding bennies was like a magic bullet. They keep my roots white and stimulated, keep the gunky buildup away, displace harmful microbes, and cost pennies to breed. I like the idea of fighting nature with nature.

What I don't like is sick people being taken advantage of as a result of misinformation and fear, and that was my original motivation for this thread.
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I think my concern with the comparison is the poccess in which he chemicals are derived. hemp is a plant the extracts a lot of heavey metals when it grows (its being used right now to clean up gernoble <sp>. I do fundamentaly agree that a organicly broken down chemical and a syntheticly broken down chemical are both chems I just question if they are truely identical. Most people (yes through anedotal evidence) do notice a difference in smoke from organic to synthetic, so that observation has to play into the disscussion of their simularities and differences.

good disscussion, if not put in a hostile environement with a contreversal opening ;)
 
doc111

doc111

Well-Known Member
DownOnWax said:
Jesus dude, give it up


Sodium and Sulfur are 2 completely different things! Just because they begin with an S does not make them the same.

How many ways do I have to explain this to you?
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I never said they were the same thing. Sodium and Sulfur are elements. Sodium is not salt. Sodium Chloride is salt. It's table salt. There are many different salts bro.:dunce:

DownOnWax said:
Here is the Link you provided for me:

Did you mean: Salt (chemistry)
Look for Salt (chemistry on one of Wikipedia's sister projects: Wiktionary (free dictionary)Wikibooks (free textbooks)Wikiquote (quotations)Wikisource (free library)Wikiversity (free learning resources)Commons (images and media)Wikinews (free news source)




Wikipedia does not have an article with this exact name. Please search for Salt (chemistry in Wikipedia to check for alternative titles or spellings.
Other reasons this message may be displayed:
  • If a page was recently created here, it may not yet be visible because of a delay in updating the database; wait a few minutes and try the purge function.
  • Titles on Wikipedia are case sensitive except for the first character; please check alternative capitalizations and consider adding a redirect here to the correct title.
  • If the page has been deleted, check the deletion log, and see Why was my page deleted?.
Click to expand...
I don't know why that link didn't work but if you click on this one Salt (chemistry) it will take you to the page I was trying to show you.
:?
DownOnWax said:
hahahahahahahahahaha

Seriously ARE you Joking?

Sodium IS SALT
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No, no, no, no, NO! Sodium is NOT Salt! Sodium is an element in the class "alkali metals". Again, Sodium Chloride (NaCl) is table salt.:dunce:

DownOnWax said:
And do you SERIOUSLY believe in WIKIPEDIA?

I could write that I have the largest cock of all time on that site and your dumb ass would quote it tomorrow!
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I am well aware that there is some rather dubious information in wikipedia, but I fact checked it personally before putting it up. I happen to know that the information is correct or I wouldn't have posted the link there champ.;-)
DownOnWax said:
But I am Still laughing my ass off about that you think sodium and salt have nothing to do with each other!

You my friend are going in my signature :)
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You laugh your ass off all you want. Sodium and salt have nothing to do with each other. Sodium has something to do with table salt but Sodium Chloride is but one salt out of thousands. You go ahead and put me in your signature. I have a Master's degree in chemistry my friend. I personally don't care what you believe. You are free to remain ignorant if you so choose. What I won't tolerate is you spreading misinformation. Sodium is NOT SALT. Sodium Chloride is A SALT. Just one of many. It is the most common salt and the one most of us are familiar with but it is not the only salt and Sodium has nothing to do with salt itself. It DOES have something to do with table salt. I'm not arguing this point with you anymore. My grandfather once said, "You should never argue with idiots. They will only drag you down to their level.":dunce:

Here is one more link that you probably won't read, but since you have a problem with wikipedia I figured I'd provide it for you.:-P

http://www.chemistrydaily.com/chemistry/Salt
 
M

madodah

Well-Known Member
Humus Joe said:
I think madodah is being taken out of context
IMO what he is saying, is that unscroupulous companies are praying on ppls limited understanding of wot organic really means and just cashin in on the big "O" word.

Which is exactly wot is happening, bcos most "organic" nutes are no better then synthetic. I mean, just call it hydro and be done.
Click to expand...
I was taken out of context. You are correct, 'organic' nutrient supplements are no improvement over 'synthetic' supplements as both ignore the reality of living soil by feeding the plant, not the soil. 'Nute' vendors and their fanboys have jumped on the organic bandwagon with new snake oil and as usual many growers and consumers eagerly lap up whatever swill marketers present them.
 
Fungus Gnat

Fungus Gnat

Well-Known Member
Organics seems more like Vitalism to me(not saying there aren't benefits to organic farming especially to the environment).

"It tastes better" is to me like the people that say an Ortolan tastes better when its been drown.

DownOnWax
And do you SERIOUSLY believe in WIKIPEDIA?

I could write that I have the largest cock of all time on that site and your dumb ass would quote it tomorrow!​
Click to expand...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salt_(chemistry)
Can you point out what's wrong with Wikipedia's entry?
 
M

madodah

Well-Known Member
Heisenberg said:
This is what I was trying to address in the first place. A cancer patient who doesn't know anything about cannabis tries to obtain some medicine. All she knows is that it's possible cannabis might make her final days less painful. When she tries to obtain medicine, she is told that she should buy organic bud, because it doesn't have toxins or chemical residue which could make her condition worse. This may be true in the strictest sense, but it implies that synthetically grown bud does have toxins, chemical residue and could make her condition worse. She doesn't care if the nutes are recyclable, she doesn't care what salt really is, she doesn't care if your nutes burn your skin faster than mine will, she only wants to safely ease her pain. Not wanting to risk making herself sicker, she pays a higher price for a product who's biochemical and genetic makeup are identical to it's synthetically grown counterpart. Being sick she doesn't have much money, but the salesman has convinced her to pay a higher price through misinformation and fear. How can anyone defend this?
Click to expand...
Big pharma, big ag and others have used consumer ignorance to build massive fortunes for decades. I don't know why anyone would be surprised that snake oil peddlers are thriving in the medical marijuana market.
 
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