P or K deficiency? lock out? whats going on here

indoors... 400watt MH
week 20 of veg...mother plants
on tuesday I fed 4.5 ml of grow (mostly N), 2 ml duece duece (K), and 4.5 bloom (mostly P) been feeding cal mag with the last two waters before the fed
PH has been low since the transplant the highest the run off has rated is 6.42 and the last reading i took was 6.3


it seems to have gotten worse since i fed her... nute burn? or lock out? this is the most finiky plant ever

i just transplanted it on march 14th so when it was showing signs of needing nutes i was shocked but idk... help anyone?

and in case you can't tell from the picture the rest of the plant is lush green almost blue on some leaves. the top/ newer growth is the issue

i need to figure this out. i can't believe this plant is getting sick again...

what is the best course of action now? wait? what should i do? i was planning on adding some lime but idk if that is going to help at all

20 weeks? Is that the only pot she's seen?

If you've got another clone going, I'd switch that one out to be the new mother. Put the mother in a bigger pot, let it get healthy new growth, then put her out to finish off her life.

If you don't have clones, re-pot the mother, let her start getting healthy new growth, then start taking clones again.

mmjmon said:

20 weeks? Is that the only pot she's seen?

If you've got another clone going, I'd switch that one out to be the new mother. Put the mother in a bigger pot, let it get healthy new growth, then put her out to finish off her life.

If you don't have clones, re-pot the mother, let her start getting healthy new growth, then start taking clones again.

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so i need a bigger pot? i was told you could grow in any size as long as you manicure the roots when they get root bound?

i just cut the roots off and replanted it with new soil back into the same sized pot on 3/14... it started to rebound beautifully but now its fucking up again

if all i need is a bigger pot i can live with that... tho how much bigger should i get? this is about a 7" pot... what would you recommend?

what boggles me is how does the plant know if its too small of a pot of it isn't even root bound tho?

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****edit **** few small roots are coming out the bottom ***

Shed&Breakfest said:

on tuesday I fed 4.5 ml of grow (mostly N), 2 ml duece duece (K), and 4.5 bloom (mostly P) been feeding cal mag with the last two waters before the fed

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Those are Humboldt Nutrients Grow, Bloom and Deuce Deuce? And you're not using the Micro?

If so, where did you get those dosages? It comes out to an insane 1-3.5-10.4 NPK ratio (0.8-2.9-8.5 NPK %).

In veg the NPK ratio should be around 1-1-1 to 3-1-2. Worse (although I'm not certain it can get worse), those bottles contain no micro nutrients. Those are in the micro bottle you're apparently not using(?).

(I used this spreadsheet to get those numbers.).

Shed&Breakfest said:

so i need a bigger pot? i was told you could grow in any size as long as you manicure the roots when they get root bound?

i just cut the roots off and replanted it with new soil back into the same sized pot on 3/14... it started to rebound beautifully but now its fucking up again

if all i need is a bigger pot i can live with that... tho how much bigger should i get? this is about a 7" pot... what would you recommend?

what boggles me is how does the plant know if its too small of a pot of it isn't even root bound tho?

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Cool. That rules that out, especially since you said it was rebounding. I do the same thing. I also alternate between a square and a round pot.... but that may just be unnecessary. I feed her foliage pro and add cal-mag once a month or so.

You said you're using bloom, but you are using bloom products. So switch to a Grow food and add some cal-mag once in a while. That should help.

agree with az2000, balance is key, not rally a fan of flushing id be tempted to do another repot and let it settle, (though you don't say what soil your in) id not use anything to hot, and look at minimal feeds, until your clear,

One of the concequences of having a plant that is living in a container thats too small is the tendency to be burnt by lower than normal levels of fertilizer. What i see is that your plant is too large for the pot which leads to another concequence of pot size issues, stretching. Shes reaching for the sky cause shes scared. My advice is to flush because she looks really burnt and get a new container for it after thats done. Well that and buy a ppm meter. All you guys that say 2ml of this and that crack me up. You have no idea what your giving your plant. Do yourself a favour. Go buy a seven gallon grow bag and transplant that into it. Fill it with ffof and feed next to nothing for a month besides a bit of calmag and watch it bush out and cure itself.

well isn't thier micro nutes in cal mag plus? i know there is Manganese and Iron for sure and im pretty sure the organic grow has zinc in it

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the 'natural grow' by humbolt is 3 - 1 -3 with calcium (1%), zinc oxide, and Magnesium Sulfate (none listed %'s for last two) [use 5 -15 ml per gallon]
the 'natural duece duece' is 0 - 0 - 22 [1 -5 ml per gallon]
the 'natural bloom' is 0 - 10 - 0 with calcium at (10%) [use 5 - 10ml per gallon]

the cal-mag plus from botanicare is 2 - 0 - 0 with calcium(3.2%), Magensium(1.2%), and Iron (.1%)

i also have some 'natural equilibrium' but its the oldest of my nutes and the cal mag plus is new
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I mix in one gallon jugs... i usually don't mix them all together but this last feed was just a general purpose fed i mixed up about a month ago...

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only reason i added so much is b/c of what the recommended doses were... and i was thinking this is an old plant so it could take it? obviously i was dead wrong.

so this could still be a Mn deficiency? considering im not adding any to the soil? but since i only transplanted a week or so ago shouldn't there still be mirco nutes in the soil?

im using fox farm ocean forest btw

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ya i really should get a ppm meter... do you have any recommendations?


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thanks for all the replies i now atleast have an idea at what im shooting for

Truncheon, bluelab. Five year warrenty. 120 bucks. Or buy cheapos and watch them read wrong and dont get em wet lol.

And man, ive been in ffof for three years. Ive never seen that. Its nutrient burn and not having enough room for roots. Take it or leave it but thats whats wrong. Do what i said and youll be fine.

Alienwidow said:

Truncheon, bluelab. Five year warrenty. 120 bucks. Or buy cheapos and watch them read wrong and dont get em wet lol.

And man, ive been in ffof for three years. Ive never seen that. Its nutrient burn and not having enough room for roots. Take it or leave it but thats whats wrong. Do what i said and youll be fine.

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thank you so much. im getting my 5 gallon pot out tomorrow before i water it again to transplant. this time i will remember to add a little bit of dolomite to the FFOF

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how often should i be using the cal mag? i use RO water btw... i have a feeling i over feed it calcium and it locked out the Mn besides the fact its root bound i mean

Shed&Breakfest said:

thank you so much. im getting my 5 gallon pot out tomorrow before i water it again to transplant. this time i will remember to add a little bit of dolomite to the FFOF

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how often should i be using the cal mag? i use RO water btw... i have a feeling i over feed it calcium and it locked out the Mn besides the fact its root bound i mean

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Ffof has oystershell in it already. Ro water needs about one ml per litre of calmag liquid supplement added. I use calmagic or something like that. I dont ammend my soil because ive seen too many disasters like that. If thats how you want learn then all the power to you but i like to do things the easy way to start and then tweek the technique as i have success with a method. Mad scientists that are also noobs tend to always have problems. Ffof, bigger pot, minimal nitrients, calmag start lower and move to what I reccomended. Done.

Shed&Breakfest said:

the 'natural grow' by humbolt

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Originally you said "Grow" and "Bloom." Those are different products. The way you're using Natural Grow & Bloom (and DD), your NPK ratios are 1-3.67-4.26. That's awfully high in K. The P is high even for flower. If your trying to keep it in veg, that's way too high. Also, there's virtually no micros in those bottles. Calcium and molybdenum only. No iron, zinc, boron, copper, et. al. Maybe they expect it to be in the soil.

Humboldt's feed chart shows only 10ml/gal Natural Grow in veg. Nothing else. That's an NPK ratio 3-1-3. That's still high in K, in my opinion. But, looks more like a veg ratio. Only 262ppm. Sounds low. But, maybe they expect nutes to come from the soil, being part of an organic program.

I don't know where you got the schedule you're following which is decidedly bloom oriented.

az2000 said:

Originally you said "Grow" and "Bloom." Those are different products. The way you're using Natural Grow & Bloom (and DD), your NPK ratios are 1-3.67-4.26. That's awfully high in K. The P is high even for flower. If your trying to keep it in veg, that's way too high. Also, there's virtually no micros in those bottles. Calcium and molybdenum only. No iron, zinc, boron, copper, et. al. Maybe they expect it to be in the soil.

Humboldt's feed chart shows only 10ml/gal Natural Grow in veg. Nothing else. That's an NPK ratio 3-1-3. That's still high in K, in my opinion. But, looks more like a veg ratio. Only 262ppm. Sounds low. But, maybe they expect nutes to come from the soil, being part of an organic program.

I don't know where you got the schedule you're following which is decidedly bloom oriented.

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uh looked like it needed it... so i added it... pretty simple... their isn't really a feeding schedule to go by for 20 week mother that i know of, feel free to post one. its not showing signs of needing boron, copper, or iron so idk why i would focus on that now

in my defense the leaves were playing tricks on me with the roots being bound, i have a leaf chart and thats what it looked like it needed... trust me i thought it was weird but w/e root bound plants suck ass.

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i only added about 4.5 ml of grow then that means my ppm for that has to be under 130. thats almost nothing. i think if it just gets unbound it should be fine. glad i found that out sooner rather than later. i never thought it would rebind its self that quick

transplanted them into much bigger pots... not sure gallon wise how much they are but its a 13.5" diameter and 11" deep... the roots were CRAZY root bound... never thought those girls could rebound THAT fast... now i know... THANKS to all for the help... this i hope is my last flub for the year

i used a drill bit to just score the walls of the roots so they would open up quicker and branch out... i think by tomorrow they should really happy