Pandemic 2020

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printer

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PJ Diaz said:
Yes, vaxxed people are getting infected with Alpha, not only Delta. Fact. You see more Delta, simply because that's the predominant strain right now. The reality is that most covid cases are never sequenced.
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And you hold up any cases where vaxed people getting the virus as the vaccines not working. But the fact is the few coming down with the virus do not have a strong enough immune system in the first place. The vaccines are not an invisible shield against the virus. Even with your complaint that we do not know the long term effect of it on us, if you had five years of data saying it was safe, it still would not ensure 100% infection to everyone. So you are nitpicking. And ultimately what are you trying to produce with your nitpicking? Are you trying to dissuade people from taking the vaccine?

What is your ultimate goal?
 
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mooray

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He says his goal is to shed light on the positives and negatives, but his posts are at least 95% negative and when called out on it, he says it's not his intent. So he's aiming for 50/50 but just sliiiiiiiiiightly misses his target at 95/5. Pretty close though, barely noticeable really.
 
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printer

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PJ Diaz said:
Probably. People getting the "vax" is what caused the current wave. All these jabbed people thought they were protected like a condom, and forgot to continue their social distancing. The vaxxers all pulled off their masks as soon as they got the jab and started hugging each other. The current wave was lit and has spread like wildfire.
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Sorry, just came back from a day shopping. The minority, maybe one in twenty, have been unmasked. The rest did the social distancing as I have. I think you have blinders on.
 
CatHedral

CatHedral

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mooray said:
Disagree. It puts a focus on merit and away from the tribalism. Now think about someone that leans the inverse, they're not an anti-vaxxer and they focus on merit, then they see that there isn't much merit to avoiding these vaccines, at least not without being super inconsistent like PJ, because you'd have to stay in your house and live in a bubble, never ride a bicycle, etc. And finding yourself in conflict is the best path to reconciling conflicting ideas, because you can do it internally and don't have to worry about anything external(embarrassment, etc.).
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I do not understand what having a stance favoring the vaccination has to do with merit and/or tribalism. I am using pro-vax as being for known legitimate vaccines. That is why i think your remark about butthole juice is polarizing and frivolous. I am pro-vaccination. I like not fearing measles, smallpox or polio. I like the edge it gives me in the current pandemic against a scary pathogen. To lump that in with butthol juice charlatans is not useful, and it has a distinct antivax insinuation. I see negative propaganda value in how you said it.
 
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mooray

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Butthole juice is not to be taken literally. The goal is to take the focus away from being anti/pro and to simply look at the information. Look at what has happened with our Covid vaccines, if you're a republican, you're betraying your group by getting vaccinated. I'd like to remove that stigma, so I start with myself by not joining a club, in the hopes that other people see that it's also okay to not join a club. I avoid being a pro-vaxxer for the purpose of trying to pull people away from being anti-vaxxers.
 
CatHedral

CatHedral

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mooray said:
Butthole juice is not to be taken literally. The goal is to take the focus away from being anti/pro and to simply look at the information. Look at what has happened with our Covid vaccines, if you're a republican, you're betraying your group by getting vaccinated. I'd like to remove that stigma, so I start with myself by not joining a club, in the hopes that other people see that it's also okay to not join a club.
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Why do you assume that my pro-vax stance is based on allegiance and not a career in the medical sciences?
 
PJ Diaz

PJ Diaz

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printer said:
Sorry, just came back from a day shopping. The minority, maybe one in twenty, have been unmasked. The rest did the social distancing as I have. I think you have blinders on.
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That's this week. Vaxxed people have figured out by now that they made mistakes weeks ago by unmasking and ending their social distancing as soon as they were "fully vaxxed". I saw it first-hand among many vaccinated people around me. As soon as the vaxxed started getting sick they all puckered up and remasked.
mooray said:
Butthole juice is not to be taken literally. The goal is to take the focus away from being anti/pro and to simply look at the information. Look at what has happened with our Covid vaccines, if you're a republican, you're betraying your group by getting vaccinated. I'd like to remove that stigma, so I start with myself by not joining a club, in the hopes that other people see that it's also okay to not join a club.
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Meanwhile as a liberal I'm apparently betraying "my group" by not getting vaccinated. So while you and others here would like this to not be a political thing, at the same time you will call anyone who doesn't want a vax a Trump supporter. Sorry buddy, but you can't have it both ways.
 
PJ Diaz

PJ Diaz

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CatHedral said:
Indifferent. I am pointing out that you act as though your anecdote is informative.
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My anecdote was posted hand in hand with data from the CDC in the same post, and that data apparently supports my anecdote. So where does that leave us now?
 
Cycad

Cycad

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PJ Diaz

PJ Diaz

Well-Known Member
printer said:
And you hold up any cases where vaxed people getting the virus as the vaccines not working. But the fact is the few coming down with the virus do not have a strong enough immune system in the first place. The vaccines are not an invisible shield against the virus. Even with your complaint that we do not know the long term effect of it on us, if you had five years of data saying it was safe, it still would not ensure 100% infection to everyone. So you are nitpicking. And ultimately what are you trying to produce with your nitpicking? Are you trying to dissuade people from taking the vaccine?

What is your ultimate goal?
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My goal is to bring awareness to the facts which you and others here apparently would prefer to cover up and ignore.
 
CatHedral

CatHedral

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PJ Diaz said:
My anecdote was posted hand in hand with data from the CDC in the same post, and that data apparently supports my anecdote. So where does that leave us now?
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The data and your anecdote have zero connection. You cannot support anecdote with anything. It is anecdote. Applying outside data is not valid, and you continue to pretend that it is.
 
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mooray

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PJ Diaz said:
Meanwhile as a liberal I'm apparently betraying "my group" by not getting vaccinated. So while you and others here would like this to not be a political thing, at the same time you will call anyone who doesn't want a vax a Trump supporter. Sorry buddy, but you can't have it both ways.
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I do that? Because I've told you ten times that I support the rights angle and I support you for your specific medical concerns, and I've done that without even questioning your condition.
 
PJ Diaz

PJ Diaz

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CatHedral said:
The data and your anecdote have zero connection. You cannot support anecdote with anything. It is anecdote. Applying outside data is not valid, and you continue to pretend that it is.
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You are nitpicking, because the data is still there. You are correct that my anecdote is only anecdotal however, I have no problem with that. At the end of the day the data speaks for itself.
 
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