*Patience is a virtue*

pandabear

pandabear

Well-Known Member


Iraq insists on withdrawal timetable for US troops

Jul 8 10:02 AM US/Eastern

By SALLY BUZBEE
Associated Press Writer
BAGHDAD (AP) - Iraq's national security adviser said Tuesday his country will not accept any security deal with the United States unless it contains specific dates for the withdrawal of U.S.-led forces.

The comments by Mouwaffak al-Rubaie were the strongest yet by an Iraqi official about the deal now under negotiation with U.S. officials. It came a day after Iraq's prime minister first said publicly that he expects the pending troop deal with the United States to have some type of timetable for withdrawal.

President Bush has said he opposes a timetable. The White House said Monday it did not believe al-Maliki was proposing a rigid timeline for U.S. troop withdrawals.
U.S. officials had no immediate comment Tuesday on al-Rubaie's statement.

Al-Rubaie spoke to reporters after briefing Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani in Najaf on the progress of the government's security efforts, and the talks.
"Our stance in the negotiations underway with the American side will be strong ... We will not accept any memorandum of understanding that doesn't have specific dates to withdraw foreign forces from Iraq," al-Rubaie said.

Some type of agreement between the United States and Iraq is needed to keep U.S. troops in Iraq after a U.N. mandate expires at year's end. Iraq's government has felt increasingly confident in recent weeks about its authority and the country's improved stability, and Iraqi officials have sharpened their public stance in the negotiations considerably in just the last few days. Violence in Iraq has fallen to its lowest level in four years. The change has been driven by the 2007 buildup of American forces, the Sunni tribal revolt against al-Qaida in Iraq and crackdowns against Shiite militias and Sunni extremists.

Copyright 2008 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

 
medicineman

medicineman

New Member
Well, there you have it. They want us out. They've wanted us out from the beginning, just as we would want any warmongering intruders out of our country. I don't believe any country would like being occupied by people that drive tanks up and down their streets and kick in their doors at 3AM and drag off their men folk in hoods, never to be seen again, or have private contractors that can kill at will any civilian without consequences. Sounds like a pretty terrifying place to live. Oh, but that's right, we hanged Sadam, what a great comfort to them.
 
pandabear

pandabear

Well-Known Member

im just glad to see the true leaders were able to see it though despite the huge opposition and pessimism


I think 10 years from now a mockery will be thought of the people who so ludely berated this great country for spreading freedom as it always has, and always will.

as once it stops doing that, it will cease to be America anymore but yet just another selfish country looking at their short term interests willing to sacrifice nothing but also willing to be destroyed for their lack of valor, foresight and true historical wisdom

their lack of ingenuity and their great abundance for risk aversion and selfish requirements above all else will be their demise.

this is not what makes a country great

this is what makes a country great:







and now it has already begun after only a few short years,

in the amount of time it takes to graduate collage, this country is now free for the rest of its days

for the rest of its days!!!!!

god bless all the souls who sacrificed for this great achievement, and those invested in failure shall see their investments crash down to earth like so many who were wrong before, so many who are wrong now, and the many that will be wrong in the future

this is a victory for all humans




I am very proud to have been just a small part of it.:blsmoke:
 
medicineman

medicineman

New Member
Although I salute your patriotism, I believe it is misguided. You cannot promote democracy or world peace through the use of force. Gunboat diplomacy should be a thing of the past. Trying to democratize an 8000 year old society through the barrel of a gun has never and will never work. Taking the governments rhetoric as the rule is very childish. Most people that care can see the falacy of the governments view on Iraq. In case you've missed it, the reality is, It's all about the oil!!!

BAGHDAD — Four Western oil companies are in the final stages of negotiations this month on contracts that will return them to Iraq, 36 years after losing their oil concession to nationalization as Saddam Hussein rose to power.
Exxon Mobil, Shell, Total and BP — the original partners in the Iraq Petroleum Company — along with Chevron and a number of smaller oil companies, are in talks with Iraq’s Oil Ministry for no-bid contracts to service Iraq’s largest fields, according to ministry officials, oil company officials and an American diplomat.
The deals, expected to be announced on June 30, will lay the foundation for the first commercial work for the major companies in Iraq since the American invasion, and open a new and potentially lucrative country for their operations

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/19/world/middleeast/19iraq.html?n=Top/Reference/Times%20Topics/People/H/Hussein,%20Saddam
 
Last edited:
pandabear

pandabear

Well-Known Member
surely you cant still think its about the oil med, i mean if it was they failed miserably cuz oil is way expensive because we went to war in Iraq.

the true reason we went to war with iraq is because the arabs were coming now to our soil and killing our citizens,


Without democracy there will be wars, we went in there to get a foothold in the region and spread democracy to the disinfrachised people

through this and proper education we can stop the cycle of bigited violence purpetrated by ignorent tools that are commanded by inteligently deceptive dictators through the force of religion

Iraq was one of 3 countriess like this that are at the top of our list.

just because the list is long, it doesnt mean you dont start checking items off the list.

Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran, North Korea, lybia and countless others

once poeple are free to vote for thier leaders you will find that all people would choose peace over war,

look at our free country for example.they dont want war. Only problem is just cuz we are free doesnt mean the job is done, just means we have more responsibility to help others achieve freedom

or we will all end up slaves
 
medicineman

medicineman

New Member
pandabear said:
surely you cant still think its about the oil med, i mean if it was they failed miserably cuz oil is way expensive because we went to war in Iraq.

the true reason we went to war with iraq is because the arabs were coming now to our soil and killing our citizens,


Without democracy there will be wars, we went in there to get a foothold in the region and spread democracy to the disinfrachised people

through this and proper education we can stop the cycle of bigited violence purpetrated by ignorent tools that are commanded by inteligently deceptive dictators through the force of religion

Iraq was one of 3 countriess like this that are at the top of our list.

just because the list is long, it doesnt mean you dont start checking items off the list.

Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran, North Korea, lybia and countless others

once poeple are free to vote for thier leaders you will find that all people would choose peace over war,

look at our free country for example.they dont want war. Only problem is just cuz we are free doesnt mean the job is done, just means we have more responsibility to help others achieve freedom

or we will all end up slaves
Click to expand...
Here's a question for you to ask: Ask the Iraqis if they feel free??? you'd either be laughed out of the country or shot on the spot. The Iraqis won't be free untill we leave. Then they can battle it out in their own revolution and form their own government. Will there be slaughter after we leave, hell yeah, all those traitors in the puppet government will probably be beheaded, those fuckers that hide in the green zone and help the invaders will probably not survive the revolution, but in reality, it is none of our fucking business what Iraqis do in Iraq! BTW, since your guy Bush took office, Me and quite a few others feel a lot less free. Also, the ones making money on oil aren't the American citizens, they are friends of Bush.
 
pandabear

pandabear

Well-Known Member
thats the thing man i talk to Iraqis everyday its the business im in, i speak arabic with them not english, we speak as we are the same people like an american from the north speaks to an american from the south, so im promise you its not true.

they are glad to be rid of saddam and now they are glad to be rid of the crazy foreign al queda fighters and they will be happy to see our troops go too once they can be sure they can hold thier own agaisnt the foriegn enemy forces trying to disrupt thier new found freedom

the forces trying to disrupt this fear greatly the freedom of the iraqi peopel, because they know its over. one way or another it will be over for them if Iraq is free, and it is finally getting is toes dug in and begining to push back
 
medicineman

medicineman

New Member
pandabear said:
thats the thing man i talk to Iraqis everyday its the business im in, i speak arabic with them not english, we speak as we are the same people like an american from the north speaks to an american from the south, so im promise you its not true.

they are glad to be rid of saddam and now they are glad to be rid of the crazy foreign al queda fighters and they will be happy to see our troops go too once they can be sure they can hold thier own agaisnt the foriegn enemy forces trying to disrupt thier new found freedom

the forces trying to disrupt this fear greatly the freedom of the iraqi peopel, because they know its over. one way or another it will be over for them if Iraq is free, and it is finally getting is toes dug in and begining to push back
Click to expand...
It will be over for us when the last soldier leaves Iraq, what the Iraqis will do to form a cohesive government is way beyond my imagination. Probably Kurdistan in the north sunnis in the middle and shites in the south. That's the only scenario that makes any sense to me. Hell the sunnis and shiites lived together for years.
 
pandabear

pandabear

Well-Known Member
well the cool thing about this is we will get to see hopefully

im a huge critic / cynic at heart but I am an optimist as well

i say critcal cynical optimisum is the way to go

atually lets throw bitter in there too im also bitter

bitter critical cynical optimisum i the best was to go i think:razz:

ill start a new party based on that, it will be the party of:

Bitter: Im tired of people trying to run game on me
Critical: I dont believe you unless you prove it
Cynical: Even if you prove it your probably trying to trick me somehow
Optimisum: I think we together can acheive greatness

i think thats all you need in dealing with humans whether they are a person, tribe, city, state or nation
 
VTXDave

VTXDave

Well-Known Member
Timetable, huh? Yeah right...Like we're going to leave. How many people remember over a year ago when our government stated that we'd leave once the Iraqi's had a working government? Well that happened. The problem was, our government didn't like the results...especially when the newly formed Iraqi Parliament voted to oust the US occupiers. Remember that one? Here...Let me refresh everyone's memory...
Majority of Iraqi Lawmakers Now Reject Occupation | AlterNet

They voted to get us out over a year ago...News Flash: We're still there. Seems like the US didn't respect the form of democracy we created there. They voted to end our occupation and we ignored them. What makes anyone think we'll respect their wishes now?
 
IGTHY

IGTHY

Well-Known Member
medicineman said:
Well, there you have it. They want us out. They've wanted us out from the beginning, just as we would want any warmongering intruders out of our country. I don't believe any country would like being occupied by people that drive tanks up and down their streets and kick in their doors at 3AM and drag off their men folk in hoods, never to be seen again, or have private contractors that can kill at will any civilian without consequences. Sounds like a pretty terrifying place to live. Oh, but that's right, we hanged Sadam, what a great comfort to them.
Click to expand...
They been want us out. I love America,but I wouldn't want noone to come into my yard unannounced either. KEEP SMOKE ALIVE!!
 
shamegame

shamegame

Well-Known Member
pandabear said:
im just glad to see the true leaders were able to see it though despite the huge opposition and pessimism


I think 10 years from now a mockery will be thought of the people who so ludely berated this great country for spreading freedom as it always has, and always will.

as once it stops doing that, it will cease to be America anymore but yet just another selfish country looking at their short term interests willing to sacrifice nothing but also willing to be destroyed for their lack of valor, foresight and true historical wisdom

their lack of ingenuity and their great abundance for risk aversion and selfish requirements above all else will be their demise.

this is not what makes a country great

this is what makes a country great:







and now it has already begun after only a few short years,

in the amount of time it takes to graduate collage, this country is now free for the rest of its days

for the rest of its days!!!!!

god bless all the souls who sacrificed for this great achievement, and those invested in failure shall see their investments crash down to earth like so many who were wrong before, so many who are wrong now, and the many that will be wrong in the future

this is a victory for all humans




I am very proud to have been just a small part of it.:blsmoke:
Click to expand...
Once our troops pull out, there will be much bloodshed between factions in Iraq. There are 3 or more factions that want each other dead. That's the problem here- we are now stuck in Iraq keeping the peace. Some people think the best thing to do is to split up Iraq and give each faction it's own country. Of course, this won't solve the problem because the violence will cross right over the borders. How do you decide who gets the oil? The money and riches confiscated by the U.S. ?

You picked some very nice pictures of Iraqis smiling for the camera. I wonder if those same people will be killing each other at some point. We are in this for a much longer haul than most people think.
 
pandabear

pandabear

Well-Known Member
like i said most of you guys are invested in failure and Iraq failing so being an investor in failure its is very hard for you guys to admit, or dare I say even hope for success


its even clearly stated in your posts almost like your hoping for it to go wrong because you are all so invested in it,

just so you can say SEE!!!!SEE!!!! YOU SHOULD HAVE LISTENED TO ME!!! I WAS RIGHT!!! SEE THEY KILLIN EACH OTHER SEE!!! THEY ARE NOT GOOD ENOUGH TO HAVE FREEDOM THEY ARE TOO SAVAGE THEY WILL ALL KILL EACH OTHER. LOOK BUSH IS A BASTARD SATAN

I think the better way is to atleast admit that its possible you could be wrong

and at the very least express hope things will turn out good.


the pure lack of this sentiment is what speaks volumes about the true nature of your tunnel vision position


I fully admit I could be wrong, but I invest in my position because I see the pengelum swinging and have always seen & agreed with the vision of this revolution in this oppressed region of the world.

While all the countryman of the old and past revolutions sit comfortably in thier easy chairs telling others their revolution is meaningless and freedom is not possible.

the great thing about this argument is we will all get to see

and you can count on me to come back here everytime to prove you wrong once again.

-Panda Bear 2008
 
medicineman

medicineman

New Member
pandabear said:
like i said most of you guys are invested in failure and Iraq failing so being an investor in failure its is very hard for you guys to admit, or dare I say even hope for success


its even clearly stated in your posts almost like your hoping for it to go wrong because you are all so invested in it,

just so you can say SEE!!!!SEE!!!! YOU SHOULD HAVE LISTENED TO ME!!! I WAS RIGHT!!! SEE THEY KILLIN EACH OTHER SEE!!! THEY ARE NOT GOOD ENOUGH TO HAVE FREEDOM THEY ARE TOO SAVAGE THEY WILL ALL KILL EACH OTHER. LOOK BUSH IS A BASTARD SATAN

I think the better way is to atleast admit that its possible you could be wrong

and at the very least express hope things will turn out good.


the pure lack of this sentiment is what speaks volumes about the true nature of your tunnel vision position


I fully admit I could be wrong, but I invest in my position because I see the pengelum swinging and have always seen & agreed with the vision of this revolution in this oppressed region of the world.

While all the countryman of the old and past revolutions sit comfortably in thier easy chairs telling others their revolution is meaningless and freedom is not possible.

the great thing about this argument is we will all get to see

and you can count on me to come back here everytime to prove you wrong once again.

-Panda Bear 2008
Click to expand...
Geeze Panda, I hope you're not here in 2012 telling us we're still winning in Iraq. I hope we'll be long gone from that hellhole by then!
 
earlymorninstonepeomp

earlymorninstonepeomp

Well-Known Member
medicineman said:
Although I salute your patriotism, I believe it is misguided. You cannot promote democracy or world peace through the use of force. Gunboat diplomacy should be a thing of the past. Trying to democratize an 8000 year old society through the barrel of a gun has never and will never work. Taking the governments rhetoric as the rule is very childish. Most people that care can see the falacy of the governments view on Iraq. In case you've missed it, the reality is, It's all about the oil!!!

BAGHDAD — Four Western oil companies are in the final stages of negotiations this month on contracts that will return them to Iraq, 36 years after losing their oil concession to nationalization as Saddam Hussein rose to power.
Exxon Mobil, Shell, Total and BP — the original partners in the Iraq Petroleum Company — along with Chevron and a number of smaller oil companies, are in talks with Iraq’s Oil Ministry for no-bid contracts to service Iraq’s largest fields, according to ministry officials, oil company officials and an American diplomat.
The deals, expected to be announced on June 30, will lay the foundation for the first commercial work for the major companies in Iraq since the American invasion, and open a new and potentially lucrative country for their operations

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/19/world/middleeast/19iraq.html?n=Top/Reference/Times Topics/People/H/Hussein, Saddam
Click to expand...
"gunboat diplomacy" is the way we do things. Promoting democracy thru sheer force is our m.o. Yeah in a perfect world we'd just go over and show them the light right ??? But seeing that they are who they are, and we are who we are...well, we go there and do what we do best. Make war and force our philosophy down their throats. Free elections, democracy blah blah blah....my son was there in Balaad for 2 yrs and even he agree's we are there for nothing more than to set up the stage for our puppet show. Their president is who we decide it will be and they will continue on said course until we decide differently. When we're done with Iraq it will disintegrate into civil war and go back to the 3rd world desert it is. Free forever ???? yeah right...free as long as we care to perpetuate the illusion of freedom. You really think THEY are mandating timetables to us ??? Gimme a break...to believe THAT is childlike and miguided.
 
pandabear

pandabear

Well-Known Member
earlymorninstonepeomp said:
"gunboat diplomacy" is the way we do things. Promoting democracy thru sheer force is our m.o. Yeah in a perfect world we'd just go over and show them the light right ??? But seeing that they are who they are, and we are who we are...well, we go there and do what we do best. Make war and force our philosophy down their throats. Free elections, democracy blah blah blah....my son was there in Balaad for 2 yrs and even he agree's we are there for nothing more than to set up the stage for our puppet show. Their president is who we decide it will be and they will continue on said course until we decide differently. When we're done with Iraq it will disintegrate into civil war and go back to the 3rd world desert it is. Free forever ???? yeah right...free as long as we care to perpetuate the illusion of freedom. You really think THEY are mandating timetables to us ??? Gimme a break...to believe THAT is childlike and miguided.
Click to expand...
they asked for the time table and we refused, and they voted for al malaki and he won to our great disapointment

we did not want malaki to win, but turns out he is so far being a leader to all iraqis not just the sheites


 
ViRedd

ViRedd

New Member
I agree that we are in Iraq to promote our own self interests.

Here's a question for Med and the rest of the naysayers: When was the last time that one democracy attacked another democracy?

Vi
 
shamegame

shamegame

Well-Known Member
pandabear said:
like i said most of you guys are invested in failure and Iraq failing so being an investor in failure its is very hard for you guys to admit, or dare I say even hope for success


its even clearly stated in your posts almost like your hoping for it to go wrong because you are all so invested in it,

just so you can say SEE!!!!SEE!!!! YOU SHOULD HAVE LISTENED TO ME!!! I WAS RIGHT!!! SEE THEY KILLIN EACH OTHER SEE!!! THEY ARE NOT GOOD ENOUGH TO HAVE FREEDOM THEY ARE TOO SAVAGE THEY WILL ALL KILL EACH OTHER. LOOK BUSH IS A BASTARD SATAN

I think the better way is to atleast admit that its possible you could be wrong

and at the very least express hope things will turn out good.


the pure lack of this sentiment is what speaks volumes about the true nature of your tunnel vision position


I fully admit I could be wrong, but I invest in my position because I see the pengelum swinging and have always seen & agreed with the vision of this revolution in this oppressed region of the world.

While all the countryman of the old and past revolutions sit comfortably in thier easy chairs telling others their revolution is meaningless and freedom is not possible.

the great thing about this argument is we will all get to see

and you can count on me to come back here everytime to prove you wrong once again.

-Panda Bear 2008
Click to expand...
I am not hoping we fail. We are now stuck in a war that we should never have started. But the fact remains; Iraq is still a mess. Many Iraqis ARE savage enough kill each other. It is going to take much more time to get something worked out so that the second we leave genocide does not ensue. This is not an " I AM RIGHT JOO ARE WRONG " thing, this is reality.

I hope there is a positive end to our invasion of a country that was at best 10th on our list of credible threats to the U.S. / the world as a whole. But there is much to be sorted out in Iraq, and it's going to be a while before we can pull out completely, and have Iraq stay in one piece.

And yes, we will eventually see how this plays out. I do not think you will find one person here is truly hoping we fail. Regardless of the criminal president that started the war, I think all Americans want our troops home safely and as soon as possible -hopefully with something POSITIVE to show for their sacrifices.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top