Personal Medical Grow in Coco. [Chem D, Grape Romulan, Grapefurit Haze, Casey Jones]

bender420

bender420

Well-Known Member
jberry said:
I would say all of them are ready by my standards and the cj is really ready...
I do go by the way the flowers look. When the the flowers hairs start to bunch together and form a small cluster is when I give them their first dose but I keep it at half strength or less to make sure I don't cause any burning. If no burned tips show up then I increase the dose slightly. When the flower clusters form into small buds and start to "wrap" or spiral around the stem (like in your pics) is when you want to hits them the hardest at full strength for 5-10 days... Then move straight on to your shooting powder.

Basically when the plant is done forming its structure it will start to concentrating on putting its energy into the flowers and you want the PK to be available if it is needed (This is usually around half way threw week 2 of bloom for me but it will vary)... Some experts even claim that the high dose of PK at the start of bloom will actually "trigger" the plant to flower faster but others experts debate that theory. -Im sure this is what H&G means by "tricking the plant into thinking its dying" because I'm pretty sure there isnt any other type of inducer in the Top Booster.... Its just P,K, and a little Iron as far as I know.

gotta go... peace!:joint:
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Hey JB, I actually just fed them the CJ their first dose of Top Booster at 4ml/gal [CJ Bloom Day 33].

Wonderful explanation brother.

Just to clarify, here is a rough summary of booster timings that I got from our conversation, please correct me if I am wrong, because I intend to try the same thing that has been working for. Again I cannot thank you enough for sharing your knowledge with me.


BoostersStart on light PK boost, like hydroplex or canna PK 13/14, as soon as signs of flowers appear, around 7-10 days of bloom.

Start Top Booster @ half dose when the flowers hairs start to bunch together and form a small clusters. If no burned tips show up then increase the dose slightly.

Once the flower clusters form into small buds and start to "wrap" or spiral around the stem, hit hard with Top Booster for 5-10 days.

Start Shooting Powder after the flower clusters a fully formed.


Note: The reason I am confirming over and trying to get the full idea is because I am kind of thrown off by what H$G suggest, they say to use the top booster 3 weeks before harvest, for only a few days. Perhaps their suggestions aren't for cannabis.
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Bud XL, for a 70 day strain, what do you reckon the optimal timing for it is.

Does the TM7 dissolve well for you. It seems to settle in my nute mix. I always find it in the bottom.

Anyways what is the difference between shooting power and top booster. At the end of the day they both give PK, at different ratios. Perhaps the ratio is it.
 
jberry

jberry

Well-Known Member
Well I hope I didnt put my foot in my mouth because I dont have a ton of experience with Top Booster but I do with other similar PK products and as I said, I'm pretty sure that there is nothing special in the TB and I know the ratios used to be the same or really close to the same as Canna's PK13/14 but I heard that they changed the ratios? What ratio does your bottle say? -I also didnt notice that you were already using Hydroplex during at the first signs of flower (thats good). Anyway my bad for advising on the top boostr before i even knew the new ratio and now that i see you have hydroplex i would use that during the first stage of flowering instead of top booster like i first suggested although i think top booster would be okay.

I will break the basic idea down to you but keep in mind these are newer methods based on more recent indoor grow studies and I'm sure some people would disagree but I will explain the ratio method that I'm currently using:

A.) At first signs of flower (a few hairs here and there) supplement your nutes with a really low dose of PK (next watering raise the dose as much as you feel is safe)... -A PK product with a 2:1 ratio is said to be ideal but you can use something more rounded (like top booster or pk13/14) if thats all you had. You have Hydroplex 0-10-6 so you should use that first for about a week (This is the trigger theory I spoke of in my last post)... You kind of need to know your plants to know how much to give them but the idea is that if you give your plants a jolt of PK at a 2:1 ratio then you will cause a type of stress that will kick start the flowering process... you really just need one good feed to get the job done but I do it in a couple feeds that get stronger over the week to make sure I dont burn by going full dose right from the start. You also would want to avoid powdered pk ferts for this stage fyi.

B.) After the first signs of flowering and feeding the 2:1 PK for around a week you can move on to a 1:2 PK ratio or you can substitute the 1:2 ratio with just about anything that has lower P then K (top booster, pk13/14, ect.) but newer studies are suggesting the 1:2 ratio to be ideal for indoor container grows at this stage... AN's HammerHead (0-4-8) is one of the only 1:2 ratios that is easily available but it cost$ twice as much as it should so it would be better to save your money and find something else if possible. Use this ratio (starting with a lower dose and hitting them full strength around week 4 or 5) until you switch to shooting powder.

C.) Start using shooting powder around when the buds have linked together and are semi filled out... the plant should totally done growing structure-wise and in the ripening stage when you start using the shooting powder. I found shooting powder works best during this stage but the ratio method for this stage is said to be back to a 2:1 pk ratio... This is also to cause stress again.
 
bender420

bender420

Well-Known Member
jberry said:
Well I hope I didnt put my foot in my mouth because I dont have a ton of experience with Top Booster but I do with other similar PK products and as I said, I'm pretty sure that there is nothing special in the TB and I know the ratios used to be the same or really close to the same as Canna's PK13/14 but I heard that they changed the ratios? What ratio does your bottle say? -I also didnt notice that you were already using Hydroplex during at the first signs of flower (thats good). Anyway my bad for advising on the top boostr before i even knew the new ratio and now that i see you have hydroplex i would use that during the first stage of flowering instead of top booster like i first suggested although i think top booster would be okay.

I will break the basic idea down to you but keep in mind these are newer methods based on more recent indoor grow studies and I'm sure some people would disagree but I will explain the ratio method that I'm currently using:

A.) At first signs of flower (a few hairs here and there) supplement your nutes with a really low dose of PK (next watering raise the dose as much as you feel is safe)... -A PK product with a 2:1 ratio is said to be ideal but you can use something more rounded (like top booster or pk13/14) if thats all you had. You have Hydroplex 0-10-6 so you should use that first for about a week (This is the trigger theory I spoke of in my last post)... You kind of need to know your plants to know how much to give them but the idea is that if you give your plants a jolt of PK at a 2:1 ratio then you will cause a type of stress that will kick start the flowering process... you really just need one good feed to get the job done but I do it in a couple feeds that get stronger over the week to make sure I dont burn by going full dose right from the start. You also would want to avoid powdered pk ferts for this stage fyi.

B.) After the first signs of flowering and feeding the 2:1 PK for around a week you can move on to a 1:2 PK ratio or you can substitute the 1:2 ratio with just about anything that has lower P then K (top booster, pk13/14, ect.) but newer studies are suggesting the 1:2 ratio to be ideal for indoor container grows at this stage... AN's HammerHead (0-4-8) is one of the only 1:2 ratios that is easily available but it cost$ twice as much as it should so it would be better to save your money and find something else if possible. Use this ratio (starting with a lower dose and hitting them full strength around week 4 or 5) until you switch to shooting powder.

C.) Start using shooting powder around when the buds have linked together and are semi filled out... the plant should totally done growing structure-wise and in the ripening stage when you start using the shooting powder. I found shooting powder works best during this stage but the ratio method for this stage is said to be back to a 2:1 pk ratio... This is also to cause stress again.
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jberry what a wonderful and fully detailed response. Thank you so much for taking time out to post these details.

After my last post I started reading on the ratios and timing, and I must admit that your explanation goes in parallel with the latest research. However as you said, the theory behind ratios widely vary even among experts.

All you explanation was so clear that I don't have any question and fully understand your ideology behind the boosters, I am going to be following your exact guidelines, as they make the most sense to me personally as well.

Top Booster's NPK is 0-7-5.8, interesting ratio.

I am gonna go back and read your post again a few time to summarize some notes for future.

Much Respect JB. Cheers.
 
bender420

bender420

Well-Known Member
Quick picture update. As discussed with jberry, CJ was fed Top Booster @ 4mL/gal.

The other girls will be on hydroplex for another week then get Top Booster followed by Shooting Powder.










 

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notoriousb

notoriousb

Well-Known Member
fucking a b!! that grapefruit haze is a fatty and looks like it was just dipped in a big bucket of trichs! and only day 25?!! :weed:
definitely going on the "wanted' strain list. good shit as always man
 
passthatsh!t23

passthatsh!t23

Well-Known Member
bender420 said:
Quick picture update. As discussed with jberry, CJ was fed Top Booster @ 4mL/gal.

The other girls will be on hydroplex for another week then get Top Booster followed by Shooting Powder.










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Verydank cola for 25 days.. other strains look like confectionary sugar sprinkled over it.
soo good.
 
jberry

jberry

Well-Known Member
Also wanted to say that increasing your mag/sulfer in flowering will help as well.... Mag Amped by CES is what I use... It is super available to the plants and has some beneficial tree saps in it as well. It is a bit pricey but I only use 2ml per gal... You can use epson salt but it doesnt seem to work as well and my guess is that it is not as good unless it is epson salt designed for horticulture use.

Colbalt is something to look into as well as rare earth minerals.... A cheap organic product called Azamite has all the minerals and over 80 other elements... It is one of Advanced Nutrients big secret ingredients and it is also used by several other big nutrient companies as a amendment for their mediums. It is really cheap to buy and is a product that gets overlooked by growers but is used by nute/soil companies....I think Azamite has the colbalt and I know it has all the rare earth minerals that i have listed on the coco thread.

-dont think about it too much because the your grow looks good and a bunch of big changes will likely just mess things up.
-J.
 
jberry

jberry

Well-Known Member
-you asked about the TM7.... 10 percent of it will remain a solid and will never dissolve, but it seems to be ground up so fine that it doesnt cause any clogging or other issues for me but it would be nice if it dissolved completely.

The only tip I can give you is to mix all your TM7 in some water and let it sit until you think it has dissolved as much as it is going to, then pour that TM7 solution slowly into the rez with the rest of your nute solution... This way you can carefully pour in the liquid and with a little effort you can keep the majority of the left over solids from getting in your nutrient tank... you could even filter the TM7 solution before adding it to your nutrient tank if you wanted to make sure that your rez was completely free of solids.

I would be down to try a different similar product but I havent came across any others... Most of the companies put a ton of N in their micro formula so that you cannot use it with other companies base nutes.... Let me know if you find something better... -J.
 
bender420

bender420

Well-Known Member
jberry said:
Also wanted to say that increasing your mag/sulfer in flowering will help as well.... Mag Amped by CES is what I use... It is super available to the plants and has some beneficial tree saps in it as well. It is a bit pricey but I only use 2ml per gal... You can use epson salt but it doesnt seem to work as well and my guess is that it is not as good unless it is epson salt designed for horticulture use.

Colbalt is something to look into as well as rare earth minerals.... A cheap organic product called Azamite has all the minerals and over 80 other elements... It is one of Advanced Nutrients big secret ingredients and it is also used by several other big nutrient companies as a amendment for their mediums. It is really cheap to buy and is a product that gets overlooked by growers but is used by nute/soil companies....I think Azamite has the colbalt and I know it has all the rare earth minerals that i have listed on the coco thread.

-dont think about it too much because the your grow looks good and a bunch of big changes will likely just mess things up.
-J.
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Thanks a bunch jberry, I will definitely look into those two for the next round, I am way too broke atm.



jberry said:
-you asked about the TM7.... 10 percent of it will remain a solid and will never dissolve, but it seems to be ground up so fine that it doesnt cause any clogging or other issues for me but it would be nice if it dissolved completely.

The only tip I can give you is to mix all your TM7 in some water and let it sit until you think it has dissolved as much as it is going to, then pour that TM7 solution slowly into the rez with the rest of your nute solution... This way you can carefully pour in the liquid and with a little effort you can keep the majority of the left over solids from getting in your nutrient tank... you could even filter the TM7 solution before adding it to your nutrient tank if you wanted to make sure that your rez was completely free of solids.

I would be down to try a different similar product but I havent came across any others... Most of the companies put a ton of N in their micro formula so that you cannot use it with other companies base nutes.... Let me know if you find something better... -J.
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Wonderful tip jberry, I am not too worried about the TM7 not dissolving all the way, because I am just hand watering. Was just curious if may be I got a bad batch or something because TM7 is advertised as soluble.

I tried looking for some good micro element mixes without the N but as you said I couldn't find any, I am gonna keep my eye out for it though.

My BioAg Ful-Power says 0.015% humic, any thoughts on which is the most concentrated fulvic acid product out there? N.U.T.S?

Also do you know why on the bottle of NUTS it says to stop using it two weeks after bloom.
 
bender420

bender420

Well-Known Member
Quick update.

Heat is getting harder and harder to deal with. Other than that Chem D seems to be having some issues.

Here are the pics let me know what you fellows think. Chem is on the same nute plan as everything else but the other girls aren't showing any similar leaf clawing. Note that I am only noticing the leaf claw in the chem on the highest set of leaves on the buds. Either the chem wants to be catered to differently or this is genetics. From time to time I do run into some shots with these claws in late bloom where the grower claims it to be genetic.









 

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D

dieselM8

Active Member
Easy bender. It looks like a nut burn. Even if chem is on the same nut plan it doesnt mean it has the same needs as the rest. U can check ec of your run off and it would tell you more. Uve got great plants anyway man, fkn tasty and frosty! :D
 
bender420

bender420

Well-Known Member
dieselM8 said:
Easy bender. It looks like a nut burn. Even if chem is on the same nut plan it doesnt mean it has the same needs as the rest. U can check ec of your run off and it would tell you more. Uve got great plants anyway man, fkn tasty and frosty! :D
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Thank you.
 
BlackRoses

BlackRoses

Well-Known Member
Well ty, cause Casey Jones is one delicious smoke.. had it about 2 weeks ago in a coffeeshop called Grey Area and it was really bursting with flavors..
Check up on my journal if you got time, you might like it.
 
las fingerez

las fingerez

Well-Known Member
dieselM8 said:
Easy bender. It looks like a nut burn. Even if chem is on the same nut plan it doesnt mean it has the same needs as the rest. U can check ec of your run off and it would tell you more. Uve got great plants anyway man, fkn tasty and frosty! :D
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yo bender bro hope ur good? as u know i'm no expert but just wanted 2 add that i had 2 different girls last time, fed them the same nutes, one was fine, the other got nute burned :(

looking lovely though bro :)
 
Don Gin and Ton

Don Gin and Ton

Well-Known Member
bro if a tiny bit of burn on 3 leaves is all youve got to worry about dude your sitting pretty, does look like very slight burn i wouldnt be too worried at all.

casey just towers and towers eh man. everythin lookin pukka as per usual man.
 
jberry

jberry

Well-Known Member
I buy my fulvic acid from here>> http://chem-gro.com/cart/product_info.php?cPath=23_29&products_id=126
it is cheap and pure (8% fulvic acid).

As for the NUTS... I'm guessing they say to stop using it at bloom because it's fulvic acid and fulvic acid causes stretch.

How is the leaf problem looking? getting worse? better? -I'm gunna go against the grain here and say it looks like some sort of deficiency, probably due to some sort of lock out? It doesnt look like a burn to me... I cant be positive about all that but that would be my first guess... One thing you could try is cutting back on your additives (hydro honey, silica, ect.) a little and bring up the mL per gal. of your Coco A/B base nutrients.

Are you using Canna or H&G for your base nutes? And are you using R/O water or Tap?

bender420 said:
Thanks a bunch jberry, I will definitely look into those two for the next round, I am way too broke atm.





Wonderful tip jberry, I am not too worried about the TM7 not dissolving all the way, because I am just hand watering. Was just curious if may be I got a bad batch or something because TM7 is advertised as soluble.

I tried looking for some good micro element mixes without the N but as you said I couldn't find any, I am gonna keep my eye out for it though.

My BioAg Ful-Power says 0.015% humic, any thoughts on which is the most concentrated fulvic acid product out there? N.U.T.S?

Also do you know why on the bottle of NUTS it says to stop using it two weeks after bloom.
Click to expand...
 
bender420

bender420

Well-Known Member
BlackRoses said:
Well ty, cause Casey Jones is one delicious smoke.. had it about 2 weeks ago in a coffeeshop called Grey Area and it was really bursting with flavors..
Check up on my journal if you got time, you might like it.
Click to expand...
Even though I haven't been to the dam, I have heard of Grey Area. Nice to know that CJ is around on the other side of the pond too.

las fingerez said:
yo bender bro hope ur good? as u know i'm no expert but just wanted 2 add that i had 2 different girls last time, fed them the same nutes, one was fine, the other got nute burned :(

looking lovely though bro :)
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Hey bud, all is well here, hope you are doing good. Yeah for sure, different girls want different strength/ratios. Hoping to dial stuff in soon.

Don Gin and Ton said:
bro if a tiny bit of burn on 3 leaves is all youve got to worry about dude your sitting pretty, does look like very slight burn i wouldnt be too worried at all.

casey just towers and towers eh man. everythin lookin pukka as per usual man.
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Thanks bro, I appreciate it man. Just want to catch everything as quick as possible.

Yeah CJ is definitely looking better this round. The smell is much more pungent.
 
bender420

bender420

Well-Known Member
jberry said:
I buy my fulvic acid from here>> http://chem-gro.com/cart/product_info.php?cPath=23_29&products_id=126
it is cheap and pure (8% fulvic acid).

As for the NUTS... I'm guessing they say to stop using it at bloom because it's fulvic acid and fulvic acid causes stretch.

How is the leaf problem looking? getting worse? better? -I'm gunna go against the grain here and say it looks like some sort of deficiency, probably due to some sort of lock out? It doesnt look like a burn to me... I cant be positive about all that but that would be my first guess... One thing you could try is cutting back on your additives (hydro honey, silica, ect.) a little and bring up the mL per gal. of your Coco A/B base nutrients.

Are you using Canna or H&G for your base nutes? And are you using R/O water or Tap?
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Thanks on the tip for fulvic. I think that is where I will be picking up my fulvic next time. Exactly my guess on NUTS as well.

The leaf clawing on the chem has slowed down a bit after I backed off on the cal-mag and upped the base as bit. As far as the spots they aren't spreading to other leaves but those 3-4 leaves with the spots are slowly worsening. I suspect the same as you, lockout. I have already reduced the silica and hydro honey significantly, due to the fact that hydro honey has way too much calcium. I feed silica and hydro honey every few days.

I use Canna Coco A/B as you suggested.

No tap water for me man, I use 0-3ppm RO. LOL my tapwater comes out to EC of 1.0.
 
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