PF-Tek Experiment - Cooking the Rice

MASS97

Active Member
First, I’d like to thank the following people for their inspiration, and advice: :joint::mrgreen:

Research Kitty – https://www.rollitup.org/hallucinatory-substances/375578-lets-grow-mushrooms-beginners-gigantic.html
420God – https://www.rollitup.org/hallucinatory-substances/376106-where-pink-buffalo-roam.html
Heatless BBQ - https://www.rollitup.org/hallucinatory-substances/386647-pf-tek-shotgun-terrarium-gt.html
sonar – https://www.rollitup.org/hallucinatory-substances/393822-first-time-pf-tek-ecuador.html

If you are considering growing shrooms, these threads and their authors, were very informative and helpful as I was learning and preparing for this, I highly recomend reading all of them!!! Some are still going!!
So check them out!!kiss-ass


My methods are based upon the PF-Tek outlined here - http://www.shroomery.org/10256/PF-Tek-v2
The basic substrate recipe came from here – http://www.shroomery.org/8410/Simple-Cubensis-Growing-Technique
My spores came from here - http://www.micro-supply.com/


After reading and following these threads I decided, “This can’t be so hard.” I hope those aren’t famous last words. LOL

As it sates in the title, this is an experiment.
After reading multiple times, in multiple threads, how critical the moisture content of the PF-Tek brown rice flour cake was to the overall “health” of the cake during mycelial colonization, I wanted to look at the variables for intial moisture distribution within the standard PF-Tek brown rice flour cake. It seemed to me that the moisture content of the cake, or more accurately, HOW that moisture content was distributed, was the real limiting factor for the speed of mycelia colonization of the cake.

The basic substrate recipe for a dozen jars is:
6 cups of vermiculite
3 cups of brown rice flour
3 cups of water

From the above recipe I see two main variables that affect water distribution, the grain size of the vermiculite and the grain size of the brown rice flour.

Vermiculite is distributed in several grain sizes depending on location and availability, but typically a “coarse” grain and a “fine” grain product are available in most garden centers or hardware stores. Vermiculite is an expanded clay mineral product. The clay minerals are heated to the point of expansion in a process similar to popping popcorn. The water holding properties of vermiculite correlate to its total surface area. So by volume, the finer grain vermiculite will hold more water than its coarser grain counterpart. So, based on this fact, it seems likely that a finer grain product is better suited for our PF-Tek brown rice flour cakes. This is also stated in the original PF-Tek.

Brown Rice Flour (BRF) is the product that provides the nutrients for mycelia growth. It has been stated that if you can’t find brown rice FLOUR, then you can make your own using brown rice and a coffee grinder or blender. This inherently yields a MUCH coarser grain product. True BR FLOUR is easily wetted, it will quickly become “doughy”, were as, homemade brown rice flour still has pieces of un-ground rice in the mix. These bits of un-ground rice take some time to fully hydrate, and until they are hydrated their nutrients are unavailable for mycelia growth.

It is my hypothesis that the substitution of “homemade” BRF for store bought BRF is the main reason for the slower mycelia colonization times that many people have experienced in their threads.

Now I’m not trying to say that Homemade BRF is bad, not at all. It just has different water absorption properties than store bought BRF due to its coarseness.
In order to test for this I have prepared 12 standard PF-Tek 1/2 pint jars using the basic recipe as stated above:

The control group will follow this recipe:
6 cups of vermiculite, fine grain (1-3mm grain size approximately)
3 cups “homemade” BRF
3 cups of water

The experimental group will follow this recipe:
6 cups of vermiculite, fine grain (1-3mm grain size approximately)
1-1/2 cups “homemade” BRF
1-1/2 cups cooked brown rice
1-1/4 cups of water (the other 1-3/4 cups of water was used to cook the rice)

The jars and substrate were prepared Saturday night, 1/1/11 and inoculated with spores from micro-supply on Sunday morning, 1/2/11, after the sterilized jars had cooled.
I’m also using two strains of Psilocybe cubenis, Cambodian and Mazatapec. So my 12 jars consist of 3 control group substrates inoculated with Cambodian spores, 3 control group substrates inoculated with Mazatapec spores, 3 experimental group substrates inoculated with Cambodian spores and 3 experimental group substrates inoculated with Mazatapec spores.

jars 1-1-11.jpg

I will update with pictures and descriptions every few days.
Questions, comments and discussion are open....
 

DarthD3vl

Well-Known Member
First, I’d like to thank the following people for their inspiration, and advice: :joint::mrgreen:

Research Kitty – https://www.rollitup.org/hallucinatory-substances/375578-lets-grow-mushrooms-beginners-gigantic.html
420God – https://www.rollitup.org/hallucinatory-substances/376106-where-pink-buffalo-roam.html
Heatless BBQ – https://www.rollitup.org/hallucinatory-substances/386647-pf-tek-shotgun-terrarium-gt.html
sonar – https://www.rollitup.org/hallucinatory-substances/393822-first-time-pf-tek-ecuador.html

If you are considering growing shrooms, these threads and their authors, were very informative and helpful as I was learning and preparing for this, I highly recomend reading all of them!!! Some are still going!!
So check them out!!kiss-ass


My methods are based upon the PF-Tek outlined here – http://www.shroomery.org/10256/PF-Tek-v2
The basic substrate recipe came from here – http://www.shroomery.org/8410/Simple-Cubensis-Growing-Technique
My spores came from here - http://www.micro-supply.com/


After reading and following these threads I decided, “This can’t be so hard.” I hope those aren’t famous last words. LOL

As it sates in the title, this is an experiment.
After reading multiple times, in multiple threads, how critical the moisture content of the PF-Tek brown rice flour cake was to the overall “health” of the cake during mycelial colonization, I wanted to look at the variables for intial moisture distribution within the standard PF-Tek brown rice flour cake. It seemed to me that the moisture content of the cake, or more accurately, HOW that moisture content was distributed, was the real limiting factor for the speed of mycelia colonization of the cake.

The basic substrate recipe for a dozen jars is:
6 cups of vermiculite
3 cups of brown rice flour
3 cups of water

From the above recipe I see two main variables that affect water distribution, the grain size of the vermiculite and the grain size of the brown rice flour.

Vermiculite is distributed in several grain sizes depending on location and availability, but typically a “coarse” grain and a “fine” grain product are available in most garden centers or hardware stores. Vermiculite is an expanded clay mineral product. The clay minerals are heated to the point of expansion in a process similar to popping popcorn. The water holding properties of vermiculite correlate to its total surface area. So by volume, the finer grain vermiculite will hold more water than its coarser grain counterpart. So, based on this fact, it seems likely that a finer grain product is better suited for our PF-Tek brown rice flour cakes. This is also stated in the original PF-Tek.

Brown Rice Flour (BRF) is the product that provides the nutrients for mycelia growth. It has been stated that if you can’t find brown rice FLOUR, then you can make your own using brown rice and a coffee grinder or blender. This inherently yields a MUCH coarser grain product. True BR FLOUR is easily wetted, it will quickly become “doughy”, were as, homemade brown rice flour still has pieces of un-ground rice in the mix. These bits of un-ground rice take some time to fully hydrate, and until they are hydrated their nutrients are unavailable for mycelia growth.

It is my hypothesis that the substitution of “homemade” BRF for store bought BRF is the main reason for the slower mycelia colonization times that many people have experienced in their threads.

Now I’m not trying to say that Homemade BRF is bad, not at all. It just has different water absorption properties than store bought BRF due to its coarseness.
In order to test for this I have prepared 12 standard PF-Tek 1/2 pint jars using the basic recipe as stated above:

The control group will follow this recipe:
6 cups of vermiculite, fine grain (1-3mm grain size approximately)
3 cups “homemade” BRF
3 cups of water

The experimental group will follow this recipe:
6 cups of vermiculite, fine grain (1-3mm grain size approximately)
1-1/2 cups “homemade” BRF
1-1/2 cups cooked brown rice
1-1/4 cups of water (the other 1-3/4 cups of water was used to cook the rice)

The jars and substrate were prepared Saturday night, 1/1/11 and inoculated with spores from micro-supply on Sunday morning, 1/2/11, after the sterilized jars had cooled.
I’m also using two strains of Psilocybe cubenis, Cambodian and Mazatapec. So my 12 jars consist of 3 control group substrates inoculated with Cambodian spores, 3 control group substrates inoculated with Mazatapec spores, 3 experimental group substrates inoculated with Cambodian spores and 3 experimental group substrates inoculated with Mazatapec spores.

View attachment 1359994

I will update with pictures and descriptions every few days.
Questions, comments and discussion are open....
few questions

what did you use to grind your brf? I use hamilton beach coffe grinder.

Are you going to grind up the cooked rice?

wouldn't the cooked rice still dry out to fast? I mean faster than verm

Im gonna guess and say that if you dont ground up the cooked rice that it will only colonize the outside of the rice and when you pick some shrooms from those cakes you may break open up some rice and allow some contams a place to grow.... i've seen this happen on wbs because only the out side of the wbs is colonized and when a seed breaks in half and the inside is not colonized contams can grow on it..

im really just guessing though, I hope instead eveything works perfect for you! really I do
 

MASS97

Active Member
few questions

what did you use to grind your brf? I use hamilton beach coffe grinder.

Are you going to grind up the cooked rice?

wouldn't the cooked rice still dry out to fast? I mean faster than verm

Im gonna guess and say that if you dont ground up the cooked rice that it will only colonize the outside of the rice and when you pick some shrooms from those cakes you may break open up some rice and allow some contams a place to grow.... i've seen this happen on wbs because only the out side of the wbs is colonized and when a seed breaks in half and the inside is not colonized contams can grow on it..

im really just guessing though, I hope instead eveything works perfect for you! really I do
Hey Darth, I've been digging your Avatars!!

1) I used a coffee grinder.
2) The rice was cooked, but not ground up.
3) I'm not sure of the difference in the water holding capacity of rice vs. vemiculite? The cooked rice would certainly be less prone to removing moisture from the cake than the homemade BRF with chunks of dried rice in it.

What I'm trying to determine is, if someone chooses/forced to use "Homemade" BRF, will using a cooked portion of rice speed up colonization time as opposed to the dried chunks of rice that are left after grinding in a coffee grinder. I did think about trying to grind or mash the cooked rice, but decided it might create more problems. Maybe next time?:mrgreen:
I've never tried bird seed, but wouldn't WBS have a much harder seed coat than a rice kernel? I'm hoping that the cooked rice even though it is a larger size grain will be soft enough for the mycelia to utilize it completely.
But I don't know, that's why I'm experimenting.:-P
If the experimental group is prone to contamination due to either cooking the rice, or not crushing the cooked rice, it will be unfortunate, but something will still be learned.
Thanks for the input!!! Keep checking back!
 

sonar

Well-Known Member
Very interesting.

So your using the whole, cooked rice to exaggerate the "chunks" from grinding your rice fresh?

When I made my jars I used rice I ground myself. I grind it up in my blender in small batches and while I know it's probably not as fine as commercial BRF, I still think my blender does a pretty good job. My colonization times are actually pretty fast, but I attribute that to quality spores and the warm, stable environment the jars are in.

Not sure what will happen with the whole rice kernels. I think with using homemade ground rice vs commerical BRF, the differences would be small. Actually, on some of the mushroom forums I visit, a lot of the member prefer the homemade stuff and say it colonizes better than commercial BRF. Not sure why though.
 

MASS97

Active Member
Very interesting.

So your using the whole, cooked rice to exaggerate the "chunks" from grinding your rice fresh?

When I made my jars I used rice I ground myself. I grind it up in my blender in small batches and while I know it's probably not as fine as commercial BRF, I still think my blender does a pretty good job. My colonization times are actually pretty fast, but I attribute that to quality spores and the warm, stable environment the jars are in.

Not sure what will happen with the whole rice kernels. I think with using homemade ground rice vs commerical BRF, the differences would be small. Actually, on some of the mushroom forums I visit, a lot of the member prefer the homemade stuff and say it colonizes better than commercial BRF. Not sure why though.
Exactly, The mycelia need room to grow, and like Heatless and choempi have said, texture is good. I was just thinking that if the rice was cooked, then it wouldn't rob the cake of moisture in order to hydrate, and take moisture away from the mycelia.
I kind of like the idea of using Homemade BRF! I started thinking about the BRF cake like a soil. If it's too dense or doughy the mycelia have a harder time moving through it.
We'll see how things turn out.
Nice Avatar!!! BTW
 

sonar

Well-Known Member
Nice Avatar!!! BTW
Thanks! Didn't think anyone would recognize it and think it was a picture of me or something that I photoshopped, haha.

Also thanks for the shout out in your first post. Glad you liked it enough to include it in your list. Just being grouped together with those guys is ingratiating.
 

MASS97

Active Member
18 days from innoculation, things are starting too really take off now!

Cambodian - Control group
mushcam2.jpg


Cambodian - Experimental (cooked rice)
mush cr-cam2.jpg


Mazatapec - Control Group
mush maz2.jpg


Mazatapec - Experimental (cooked rice)
mush cr-maz2.jpg


The cooked rice seems to be slightly slowing the growth of the mycelia. In fact, the mycelia in the standard recipe acts more root like, fibrous, actively seeking nutrients, where-as the mycelia in the cooked rice jars seems more fuzzy and slower moving.
A couple of jars never started colonization after being innoculated, and several innoculation points on MOST of the jars failed to colonize! Obviously there is something wrong with my procedures. I did shake the syringes vigorously prior to injecting them
I'm thinking of creating an LC from future syringes and using the LC to innoculate the next set of cakes or maybe a bulk tek.
 
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