PH - How it effects your plants

First i would like to say that I am in no way, shape, or form an expert. Just another new guy here reading and learning. Came across an article that explained PH to me so here is my attempt to make a simple explanation for other guys in my situation.

Everyone is screaming pH, pH, pH but do we really know how it works? Honestly I didn't know how it worked, just kinda thought it was one of those things that is required to grow some meds. After researching and reading I came across an article that explains why. Let's take a look at your plants roots... For the sake of the argument we will think of our plants roots as if it were a club of sorts. This club has several entrances. The unique thing about this club is that it is so segragated that every group (nutrient) has to go thru a specific door (receptor). For those who have been to any type of club you know that without a pass you cannot enter. The same goes for the nutrients for our plants, special receptors are needed to ALLOW nutrients inside. These special receptors operate at specific pH levels. Knowing the nature of these receptors - they are more active in certain ranges than others - we can almost judge the efficiency of our nutrient programs. We can dump all the NPK or any other nutrient for that matter into the root zone but without a pass we have a no go. The pass is the pH. Staying inside of that optimal range, which varies according to growing medium i.e. soil or hydro, allows you to maximize the amount of nutrients you plants consume. So yes pH does matter because it determines how efficient the plants' protein receptors work. These are confessions of a new guy - I bought a cheap pH pen off amazon and thought I would be fine. Well maybe I will still be fine but after reading and researching one fact remains king - the more precise your pH the more your plants can get out of your nutrient program. Definitely makes sense that in a lot of these grow journals ppl are using pH pens that range from 50$ to 300$. They're spending the extra money and harvesting more buds. Don't cheat yourself like I did. Go get a solid pen and rest assured your hard earned money is being put to its best use. Thats huge for me as a beginner and experienced growers alike. Lets not waste our money on high quality nutes if were going to neglect pH. Before pH was the least of my worries now its my main priority.

From one newb to another hope this helps someone.

And I believe in showing you facts so here's the link. The rest of the info has been learned here at RIU
http://bigbudsmag.com/grow/how/article/why-ph-effects-nutrient-uptake-medical-marijuana-june-2012

Well, I agree that pH is somewhat important, but doesn't have to be measured very much. I have owned it all, cheap and not so much. I have never had a pH pen that worked well $300 or not,

OTH, if you feed a balanced formula, and know what the pH will be, after a few times, you don't need to measure anymore. Use the drops at first, and just stick with your formula.

PPM is my main concern, not pH. I have a Tri-meter for $200 and what I have spent on junk I could have 3 Tri-meters.

The plants live and die on feed concentration and pH needs to float around, not be nailed down.

Chasing pH will drive you nuts. I set up to capture 24x7 telemetry for months on pH and PPM in hydroponic. pH will swing back and forth across a full point, between night and day.

The only way pH can whack out, I saw, was if I chased it. I've learned to set it with feed, and not worry. And my feed formula is the same kelp based, 16-16-16 throughout, and 6.2 pH. I just change the concentration from 150 for clones to 600ppm at max bloom and 4 feet high. I plant a pair of different strain clones every month, and all strains are fed the same,

I think, after over 2 years at this, and in monthly production, right now, PPM is by far the most important. I have to know what my water is before I add feed. Then I dilute it until it is the PPM I need that day.

pH says very little about what the plant is doing, PPM tells me everything,

If the res is getting higher in PPM, she is taking water and leaving food, If the res is getting lower in PPM she is more hungry that I thought. Even if you just measure the run off PPM in containers vs PPM you poured in you will be way ahead of the game.

So, I liked the write up and it is all very true about mineral selection and root transport,

And if i recommend anything for people getting started, it would be to get a $40 ppm pen and learn how to calibrate it, and keep it calibrated. That's what saves my ass on a day to day basis. But, it was long lesson for me to learn.

And I really appreciate you contribution on pH.

Doer said:

Well, I agree that pH is somewhat important, but doesn't have to be measured very much. I have owned it all, cheap and not so much. I have never had a pH pen that worked well $300 or not,

OTH, if you feed a balanced formula, and know what the pH will be, after a few times, you don't need to measure anymore. Use the drops at first, and just stick with your formula.

PPM is my main concern, not pH. I have a Tri-meter for $200 and what I have spent on junk I could have 3 Tri-meters.

The plants live and die on feed concentration and pH needs to float around, not be nailed down.

Chasing pH will drive you nuts. I set up to capture 24x7 telemetry for months on pH and PPM in hydroponic. pH will swing back and forth across a full point, between night and day.

The only way pH can whack out, I saw, was if I chased it. I've learned to set it with feed, and not worry. And my feed formula is the same kelp based, 16-16-16 throughout, and 6.2 pH. I just change the concentration from 150 for clones to 600ppm at max bloom and 4 feet high. I plant a pair of different strain clones every month, and all strains are fed the same,

I think, after over 2 years at this, and in monthly production, right now, PPM is by far the most important. I have to know what my water is before I add feed. Then I dilute it until it is the PPM I need that day.

pH says very little about what the plant is doing, PPM tells me everything,

If the res is getting higher in PPM, she is taking water and leaving food, If the res is getting lower in PPM she is more hungry that I thought. Even if you just measure the run off PPM in containers vs PPM you poured in you will be way ahead of the game.

So, I liked the write up and it is all very true about mineral selection and root transport,

And if i recommend anything for people getting started, it would be to get a $40 ppm pen and learn how to calibrate it, and keep it calibrated. That's what saves my ass on a day to day basis. But, it was long lesson for me to learn.

And I really appreciate you contribution on pH.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the knowledge. My whole goal as a member of RIU is to learn as much as I can. I've read and read and that was the main thing I worry about. Burnt plants and over fertilizing. You have a wealth of knowledge under your belt do you have any advice as far as PPM and pH in coco. Im going straight coco and Im confused about PPM and pH. Every guide says to treat it as hydro any ideas?

I treat it as fully drained inert soil. Interesting you are going that route. I can recommend nothing better than 50/50 coir and hydroton, top drip. I have tried a lot of different combos. My first year, all in my journal er...blog, was destructive failure experiments. I never had a fire, but did dumped or pumped gallons of water on the floor, before I learned to never trust a free hose end, how to do failsafe plumbing etc. (a false safe I added to the fog tub saved me again the other day)

You are confused because it all theory and I bet you plan to never lose a single plant, I bet you want to plan so well it will all be perfect the first time...not wait...that was me.

I got it. Just take your concern for pH and replace that with PPM.

There..

Hydroponics has a lot of room for error and is prone to disease needs 02 and temp control which work against each other.... And, main point of ALL... The plants can't be moved out of the room for an afternoon of maintainance.

It is all about getting roots and doing a couple of transplants to get a root ball to feed.
After that it is very hard to over feed. The plant has enough root heath to just take what she needs.

week 1 - 8oz damp coir in 16 oz Solo cup @ 150ppm (no more water, roots forced to hunt down all the water. Tough Love)

week 2 - transplant to 6" azalea cup 50/50 hydrorton/coir damp @200 ppm (no more water, roots forced to hunt down all the water. Tough Love)

week 3 - transplant to 2.5 gal rose bucket, deep. I go deep enough to cover another leaf node for more rooting, and to drop the height, Begin daily top drip from 6" ring for 1 min per day @ 200 ppm,

week 4
- harvest 16 week pair and remove from Bloom table
- move 12 week pair over 600 ppm resevoir
- move 8 week pair out of tent under 1000w HPS water cooled @ 500 ppm.
- move this pair over 400 PPM reservoir
- begin spraying Dutch Master Liquid Light every 3rd day (fast growing lush and bushy)
- start 2 more clones,.

Hope it helps. Good luck.

Hope it helps,

Doer said:

I treat it as fully drained inert soil. Interesting you are going that route. I can recommend nothing better than 50/50 coir and hydroton, top drip. I have tried a lot of different combos. My first year, all in my journal er...blog, was destructive failure experiments. I never had a fire, but did dumped or pumped gallons of water on the floor, before I learned to never trust a free hose end, how to do failsafe plumbing etc. (a false safe I added to the fog tub saved me again the other day)

You are confused because it all theory and I bet you plan to never lose a single plant, I bet you want to plan so well it will all be perfect the first time...not wait...that was me.

I got it. Just take your concern for pH and replace that with PPM.

There..

Hydroponics has a lot of room for error and is prone to disease needs 02 and temp control which work against each other.... And, main point of ALL... The plants can't be moved out of the room for an afternoon of maintainance.

It is all about getting roots and doing a couple of transplants to get a root ball to feed.
After that it is very hard to over feed. The plant has enough root heath to just take what she needs.

week 1 - 8oz damp coir in 16 oz Solo cup @ 150ppm (no more water, roots forced to hunt down all the water. Tough Love)

week 2 - transplant to 6" azalea cup 50/50 hydrorton/coir damp @200 ppm (no more water, roots forced to hunt down all the water. Tough Love)

week 3 - transplant to 2.5 gal rose bucket, deep. I go deep enough to cover another leaf node for more rooting, and to drop the height, Begin daily top drip from 6" ring for 1 min per day @ 200 ppm,

week 4
- harvest 16 week pair and remove from Bloom table
- move 12 week pair over 600 ppm resevoir
- move 8 week pair out of tent under 1000w HPS water cooled @ 500 ppm.
- move this pair over 400 PPM reservoir
- begin spraying Dutch Master Liquid Light every 3rd day (fast growing lush and bushy)
- start 2 more clones,.

Hope it helps. Good luck.

Hope it helps,

Click to expand...

Insane Info!!!
I went out and bought some three gallon pots maybe a week ago thinking that I could start and finish in the same pot. Shooting for one lb. and I'm not concerned at all about how long it will take to veg. Is this the right size pot to end with? Transplanting doesn't make sense to me. Please RIU correct me if I'm wrong but isn't transplanting just so you can optimize space? I wanted to go hydro but when I built the system the pump was loud and the sound of running water when I'm not home would certainly prompt my nosey neighbor to call 911 because hurricane Katrina is going thru my apt. Had a rough time with leaks and the like so I decided to play it safe and go natural> Then I found coco and never looked back.Still waiting to order my seeds just want to know everything I can about this coco because once I start I can't stop or pause it.

I transplant seedlings 3 times and clones twice, Plants love transplant. They produce lovely growth spurts for the trouble.

This is Botany and anyone will tell you, the transplant container cannot be more than about 2 inch wider than the container you are coming out of. Too much water is held in the larger container for the tiny root system., They drown. The stem pinches to shut off the water down to a hard, dark purple, stick and will not recover.

I am not making this up. I have the horror results in my journal. Over watering is wrong, Just say NO. We can control that with container size.

So, RIU corrects you when you are wrong, Azania pots have very slanted sides. That's why I use it. Azania gets transplanted several times before it is ready for outdoors.

Even the 2.5 gal rose bucket gets completely root circled before I am done with it. But, the plant is harvested by then, If I vegged longer I would certainly go to a 4 gal bucket from the 2.5 gal, for Bloom.

Can't stop or pause? Good luck!

Doer said:

I transplant seedlings 3 times and clones twice, Plants love transplant. They produce lovely growth spurts for the trouble.

This is Botany and anyone will tell you, the transplant container cannot be more than about 2 inch wider than the container you are coming out of. Too much water is held in the larger container for the tiny root system., They drown. The stem pinches to shut off the water down to a hard, dark purple, stick and will not recover.

I am not making this up. I have the horror results in my journal. Over watering is wrong, Just say NO. We can control that with container size.

So, RIU corrects you when you are wrong, Azania pots have very slanted sides. That's why I use it. Azania gets transplanted several times before it is ready for outdoors.

Even the 2.5 gal rose bucket gets completely root circled before I am done with it. But, the plant is harvested by then, If I vegged longer I would certainly go to a 4 gal bucket from the 2.5 gal, for Bloom.

Click to expand...

dont agree,ive actually found putting clones into thier final pots early...i'e from 1 litre to 25 litres helps them grow quicker.sometimes transplanting can shock a plant and slow down growth.ofcourse transplanting so early means you have to be sensible when you water,its easy enough tho.

I see. So, you just take a seed and plant it in 20 liters? No you don't. That's what the OP is suggesting.,

Is 2 transplants in the first 2 weeks early enough? That's all I do. Once I get the root ball, everything works out. Crash that first 2 weeks and pinch the stems? I just start over.

@Doer that makes perfect sense. Ill just transplant them I don't want to shock them at all. Not with PPM, transplanting or pH lol. Im going to germ in one pot and once the seedling had grown enough roots ill transplant. The part that scares me the most is buying Cali Connection or Reserva Privida seeds only to transplant and they die, scary concept for some of the most expensive beans on the market. Thanks for the correction

@resinousflowers420 How do you transplant? Intervals?

And is transplanting transplanting? Do i do anything different because I am going 100% coco.

I start a seed in a thumb sized rooting plug. When that shows roots it goes into 4 oz of damp coir in an 8 ox solo for a week, for more root hunt....then 8 oz in a 16 oz cup and then 50/50 in a 6" azalea pot.

I think transplant shock must come from a very heavy hand, indeed, I've never seen it and in plant nursery, transplanting is daily activity. It has to be done in order to sell healthy plants. Growing the root ball is the main value add. Clean your hands and be quick but gentle. Never leave the roots exposed. Be ready in all respects before the drill and have you extra media prepared clean, etc.

Do yourself a favor and mix in hydrotron 50% after you get out of the Solo Cups, It makes the daily feeding and the rapid growth possible, since that requires a full drain, It is like rocky soil. The girls really like it.

BTW, you do know you have to rinses the crap out of coir to get the PPM down from 300-400?

I go 5 volunms of RO water at 80ppm to one volume of Coir. I use a bucket with holes and a tee shirt for a final filter.

You need to measure PPM, What is your water, btw? Don't know? Need a PPM pen.

Coconut grow quite well in salty sand.

@Doer man i wish i could tell you what my ppm are for my water. Just spent the last hour on the phone fighting with amazon/sellers/creditcardco such a headache. As soon as it gets in I'll test it for sure. I can dig the 50/50 mix I have a 5gal bucket full of hydration from when I thought hydro was my calling. Money is tight so no little plugs for me going straight into this coco to do what it does lol. If my ppm and ph check out transplant shock should be avoidable.

https://www.rollitup.org/t/lets-talk-about-ph-testing.701733/
Whole thread on testing pH.
Boring subject - good info.
Its always good to make a study of the pH in your grow area. Once you know how it behaves over time, you can stop worrying about it so much. Its a changling. Like Doer said..chasing it will make you crazy.

resinousflowers420 said:

dont agree,ive actually found putting clones into thier final pots early...i'e from 1 litre to 25 litres helps them grow quicker.sometimes transplanting can shock a plant and slow down growth.ofcourse transplanting so early means you have to be sensible when you water,its easy enough tho.

Click to expand...

Dont agree either. I have gone from dixie cups to 5 gallon buckets, no worries. And have plantd a seeds directly in 5 gallon containers, again no worries.

Alexander Supertramp said:

Dont agree either. I have gone from dixie cups to 5 gallon buckets, no worries. And have plantd a seeds directly in 5 gallon containers, again no worries.

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@aisach thanks man. Just tested my tap water. 71ppm 7.01ph. Going to try and relax like u guys are saying.

Alexander Supertramp said:

Dont agree either. I have gone from dixie cups to 5 gallon buckets, no worries. And have plantd a seeds directly in 5 gallon containers, again no worries.

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Once you get the roots in a dixie you are much less prone to risk of over watering,

Yeah, so let's not give the wrong idea. I get pair of 28" tall and bushy every month, but, this is just the way I do it. I am optimizing for time and early fast growth, and enhancing with Liquid Light spray. ( I just harvested a pair of Skywalker ,as well, on the month turn. About 2 ounces each...plenty for me.)

You can toss seeds out a north window, and get some growth.

It will grow in deep shade next to a pond. I tried that, It grows...barely.

It is all about you running your rig for your goals. I'm just saying that in a plant nursery, as taught to a Commercial Botany helper, transplanting is what you do. It is a business of optimizing result.