pH issue?

i was hoping that you guys could help me figure out what was
wrong with my plants. i have attached a few pictures to this post.

ok here's the skinny.

1. plants are in the vegatative stage started from seeds. they will be 3 weeks old on saturday, August 1st, 2009.

2. using a drip hydroponic system. i'm watering them 8 times during the day and 2 times at night for 15 minutes each time time. which is about 1 1/2 hour to 2 hours between waterings

3. i have a light proof (well almost, damn close) tent made with panda
liner and PVC pipes that is 5' x 5' x 6 1/2' high. On the inside of the tent on the lower half i have a reflective material I got at the hydro store that has a bunch of little pyramids on it. seems to work well.

4. I also have a carbon filter that connects to to the light and then a
fan via duct (see pic) that helps keep the tent cooler and provides circulation. it is on when the lights are on.

5. I also have an oscillating fan that sits level with the girls set on low
speed (see pic)

6. average temp is around 80 degrees Fahrenheit...highs being around 85
during the "day" and lows being around 75 during the "night." i've read that they like to be around high 70s, but not sure how that is accomplished without an AC unit. i'm open to suggestions. also, the humidity is around 50%

7. i have a 400 watt MH bulb with a digital ballast that sits about 16 inches over the tops of the plants that sit in a 3' x 3' drip tray. light is on for 18 hours and off for 6 hours. on at 4AM off at 10PM.

8. I have a reservoir that sits under the tray that is i think 30
gallons...maybe less, not sure. i usually only put 5 gallons of distilled water/nutes in at a time. I also have an aerating stone in the reservoir with the water pump.

9. i'm using GH Flora Nova nutes, right now only using the grow, not
bloom.

10. currently, my PPM is 400 and PH is 6.0. i'm using a sunleaves PPM meter and a Hanna PH checker

11. I switched to just water that was PH 6.0 without any nutes for 2
days to help flush the girls but am back at number 10 right now and have
for been 3 days.

12. grow media is hydroton if you couldnt tell from the pics

13. all the plants are white widow (at least that's what the seed bank
was supposed to send me)

my goal here is to take the best females of this crop and make them
mother plants.

i think the PH is too high. assuming thats the case, once i fix the PH how long will it take for the leaves to loose the discoloration and the spots?

can you guys please check out the pics and let me know what i should do to fix?

also, once i fix the problems at what point should i up the nutes?


any help would be greatly appreciated. please let me know if you need any other information.

also, let me know if you need more/better pictures and what i
should be focusing on.

thanks!

i'm a beginner but i remember reading earlier today that until the plant is around 16" it should have no more than 150-300ppm. i'll recheck and post the guy's chart here ina minute to let you know if i remembered that correctly .

Try lowering ph to 5.5. variable is 5.5-6.0. 400 ppm on a 3 week baby seems a bit much. I don't stress ppm a lot but I only go as high as 700 through out the veg. I also use dirt "Mention because our values will differ". I run up to 1000 during bloom. A good reference for ppm with your NPK values is here http://www.gokigc.com/Articles.asp?ID=134. I am not advertising this site or am I trying to "spam" anything. This link takes you directly to the calculator within another site. Put in your NPK and useage amount and it will give you a PPM. Sorry I couldn't be a more direct help but I think any numbering solutions you may need can be solved w/ that calculator.

Good luck!

here's what he said and i've seen some of what he's grown, buds as big as 2 liter bottles almost.


grneral PPM/nutrient strength guidelines

seedlings over 2 weeks old - 150-300ppm

freshly rooted cuts - 300-500ppm

small vegging plants - 300-700ppm

larger vegging plants - 500-800ppm

flowering plants - 700-1200ppm

(EC)---(PPM.5)----(PPM.7)-------(CF)
.4---------200-------------280-----------4-----seedling/clones
.6---------300-------------420-----------6-----clones/rooted clones
.8---------400-------------560-----------8-----veg
1.0--------500-------------700----------10
1.2--------600-------------840----------12
1.4--------700-------------980----------14
1.6--------800-------------1120---------16-----aggressive
1.8--------900-------------1260---------18
2.0--------1000------------1400---------20-----super aggressive
2.2--------1100------------1540---------22
2.4--------1200------------1680---------24-----be carefull after this point!!

keep in mind that these rates are just a guideline and that different plants have different needs, some will use more....or less
there are many factors and variables to consider

ok, i will add some more pH balanced water to my rig to bring the PPM down.

I will make sure that the pH is 5.5.


Should I adjust the pH of the water in the reservoir daily? (i've got pH up and pH down made by GH)

Also, adding those solutions increases the PPM, is that ok? or should I check the PPM before I adjust the pH?

Thanks for the help.

Id adjust the pH every few days to a week, the reason it changes is that the plant will use certain nutrients and leave others behind, so if they use more acidic nutrients your water will be more basic. If they use the nutrients at the same pace (which they should if you have your nutrients right) you shouldnt have to worry about pH between feeding

they seem to be getting worse! some leaves are curling up and some are drooping bad!

is this the result of over watering?

what should my watering schedule be?

I dont grow hydro but...this is a mag def, looks alot like yours.


It makes sense to me that if your PPM's WERE to high, that the extra macros present could have given you a micro deficiency. Just a quick thought. These pisc are from this page > http://www.ganjaguerrilla.net/index.htm

ok, well i have lowered the PPMs to 200, hopefully that will help

so, now that i've fixed the PH and lowered the PPM...how long should it take for the plants to recover?

is 200 PPM low enough?

i have another problem. when i replace the water/nutes in my reservoir the pH is 5.5...at the end of the day the pH is like 7. how do I stabilize it so that it's 5.5 at all times?

THESE PLANTS ARE STRESSING ME OUT!

surreptitious said:

i have another problem. when i replace the water/nutes in my reservoir the pH is 5.5...at the end of the day the pH is like 7. how do I stabilize it so that it's 5.5 at all times?

THESE PLANTS ARE STRESSING ME OUT!

Click to expand...

beef supreme already posted the answer >
BeefSupreme
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Id adjust the pH every few days to a week, the reason it changes is that the plant will use certain nutrients and leave others behind, so if they use more acidic nutrients your water will be more basic. If they use the nutrients at the same pace (which they should if you have your nutrients right) you shouldnt have to worry about pH between feeding

you ALWAYS mix nutes first, then adjust ppm accordingly. This will ensure a proper balance of nutes. Now when I adjust ph personally my PH adjusters don't raise ppm enough for my EC tester to measure it. It would only make sense that it does, I've just never noticed enough of a ppm difference to note it. 200 ppm is fine. The key to what you're doing right now is "Do NOT over care for them". I know this doesn't make much sense yet, idea is to not over due anything because you feel if you care more they'll live better. That's not always true, if ever lol. If kept in check you can expect a rebound by your next node. The current leaves may or may not bounce back in color and texture but anything that grows beyond this point should be lush and green. Keep in mind your variable is 5.5-6. Some plants may like 5.5 where as others thrive on 5.7.

Lastly and I can't stress this enough. You said "Distilled" water. Is this "Tap" water? Are you allowing 24-48 hours for it to dissipate chlorines? If your water has high content of chlorines you may also notice "burn like" effects. Just something to consider if your water comes from a undesireable source.

EDIT: also make sure there's not many light leaks into your water sources. This will cause algae to grow.

surreptitious said:

i have another problem. when i replace the water/nutes in my reservoir the pH is 5.5...at the end of the day the pH is like 7. how do I stabilize it so that it's 5.5 at all times?

THESE PLANTS ARE STRESSING ME OUT!

Click to expand...

Change your water is one way, if this happens a lot indicative of old water OR temps changing a lot in your rez. When the water heats and cools your PH will go screwy. You sure your water doesn't have chlorine in it?

yurmy said:

you ALWAYS mix nutes first, then adjust ppm accordingly. This will ensure a proper balance of nutes. Now when I adjust ph personally my PH adjusters don't raise ppm enough for my EC tester to measure it. It would only make sense that it does, I've just never noticed enough of a ppm difference to note it. 200 ppm is fine. The key to what you're doing right now is "Do NOT over care for them". I know this doesn't make much sense yet, idea is to not over due anything because you feel if you care more they'll live better. That's not always true, if ever lol. If kept in check you can expect a rebound by your next node. The current leaves may or may not bounce back in color and texture but anything that grows beyond this point should be lush and green. Keep in mind your variable is 5.5-6. Some plants may like 5.5 where as others thrive on 5.7.

Lastly and I can't stress this enough. You said "Distilled" water. Is this "Tap" water? Are you allowing 24-48 hours for it to dissipate chlorines? If your water has high content of chlorines you may also notice "burn like" effects. Just something to consider if your water comes from a undesireable source.

EDIT: also make sure there's not many light leaks into your water sources. This will cause algae to grow.

Click to expand...

yes, i mix the nutes, then adjust the pH accordingly. how do I mix the nutes and then adjust the PPM? i thought the nutes were what made the PPM increase

the water i'm using is bottled distilled water. the PPM is usually around 5 or less before the nutes. do i need to let chlorine dissipate?

would algae growth increase the pH of the water? that may be my problem.

thanks for your help, btw

ok, now that you mention algae it make sense. my water reservoir was not light tight.

i also now notice the green color in the drip tray.

what i've done to resolve was to clean the reservoir, replaced with fresh water/nutes, and sealed it so no light is coming in.

i also removed all the plants from the drip tray and cleaned the drip tray. the last thing I've done is increase the incline the drip tray has...that way there will be no standing water after waterings are done.

i will still check the pH of the water daily. hopefully this will resolve my constant pH fluctuations!

i really appreciate the help troubleshooting this! i've spent a lot of money on this setup and really want to reap the benefits of the final product!

ok, so last night i tried to fix everything. when i got up this morning...the pH was still pretty good.

this evening i went in to check the pH and it's holding at about 5.8. little high, but all in all pretty good.

BUT! one of my plants has fallen over. the main stem is not hard enough to hold up the plant!

if i continue to maintain the proper pH do you guys think this plant will bounce back?

ok, so not 10 minutes after i posted that, i went back in the room and the damn thing was standing on it's own again...wtf...but the damn'd pH was 5.5! just checked it a few minutes ago and 5.6...it's lookin good...that might have resolved my issues!

NOW GROW GREEN PLANTS! GROW GREEN!

ok, i guess i was wrong, but my pH issue is back. it was good for about 3 days...today i checked it in the morning and it was around 5.5 and then i just checked it and it was like 6.0....i dont know what i'm doing wrong, but obviously i'm doing something wrong. please help