PICO's DIY Thread - Advise, Ideas and Technology - NO PANEL REPS!

[smokey the cat]

hmm,
you wanna do vero + cc Driver, right? why not just Keep the Drivers away from your work area?
What id recommend is using double pole Switches on ac side....

Hi Lax - I missed seeing this earlier.

I'm putting my drivers out the back of my cabinet, also putting the switches in where I split the AC to the drivers. I have already picked up single pole switches to use on the active wire. You think I'd be better off with double pole and switch both the active and nuetral lines? My local parts shop doesn't carry DPST, but I can get DPDT to convert.

Oh the English term you're probably wanting is "strain relief" - for cables that are attached so they're not tugging on the solder connection.



Hooked one Vero up for testing tonight - rrrreeeaall fucking bright. Lit up my apartment like the sun.

 

[lax123]

When u plug your wire into your power socket can you guarantuee to always put it in in the right direction so that L gets cut by the Switch?
I cant with my wires, wire extenders, socket timer etc and how sockets r beeing built hre.
Maybe in the US u can be always certain...
I dont think its a Major issue but better to be safe than sorry, and those dont cost much.

As iam lazy I googled an Explanation for u
or just short in my words: if u "Switch" the wrong wire -even if the Switch is Off, you can become the wire to Close the circuit (ooouchhh)

If you are switching neutral, then you are putting a live current in the device being switched..... The classic example is a light - if the light is switched on neutral the light socket will ALWAYS be hot / live.

In AC the neutral wire is designed to carry the current from a device to ground. The ground wire is a safety wire that is not ever designed to carry a current except in emergencies.

If you switch the neutral you do two things - first you send an active current to the device as soon as it is plugged in even when it is switched off - this is dangerous and a reason of itself never to switch neutral.

Second you sever the normal connection to the ground for the return of the active wire. This means the device always has a load on it and depending on the device current might possibly flow over the ground wire which could also trip a earth leakage detection equipment and shut off the power.

 

[smokey the cat]

When u plug your wire into your power socket can you guarantuee to always put it in in the right direction so that L gets cut by the Switch?

Disconnecting the nuetral makes sense if there's a risk it might be the L line by mistake - it'd suck to have a live part by accident. That quote is really useful showing the risks.

But I know one way to guarantee correct orientation - I'm fitting an IEC socket for the power connection.

It has an M205 fuse holder too so that's another component I don't have to worry about connecting (my soldering is much improved from when I last used my iron, but I'm still pretty bad).


So my question is: I'm definitely switching the active line, so it should be OK to leave the neutral connected?



Sorry for the questions like this guys - do chime in or tell me to shut up! This stuff is difficult to google - keywords bring up millions of pages that aren't useful.

I'll take some pictures and post up a parts list once this is together. Hopefully others can see how easy it is. I'd hate to have to solder 20mm stars now that I've plugged in a few Vero, heh.

 

[SupraSPL]

I agree it is important to switch the hot wire. I see no problem leaving the neutral connected. If you have a voltmeter you can easily verify which is the hot and which is neutral.

 

[smokey the cat]

Thanks Supra, that's what I thought.

Here's how to do that for anyone who doesn't know

Put your meter on AC Volts setting,
CONNECT SUPPLY
connect meter to Phase and Neutral = 230 Volts (+/- 6% based on European standards)

connect between Phase and Earth = 230 Volts

connect between Neutral and Earth = 0Volts

THE SAME WIRE THAT GIVES YOU 230 VOLTS ON TWO OF THE READINGS IS THE PHASE (LIVE)

This page has much more information about what you see as you test your power supply. http://ecmweb.com/content/diagnosing-power-problems-receptacle

 

[lax123]

I'm definitely switching the active line, so it should be OK to leave the neutral connected?

yea just as i said, if u can guarantee...u can...so its fine

 

[smokey the cat]

Thanks for the info though mate - was really interested why you recommended the double pole. This is my first time choosing a switch for an AC circuit so I'm really figuring this out.

You guys don't even wanna know what my PLL setup looks like. It's fucken horrific! 3 years ago I hooked them up temporarily and haven't had the energy to go back and tidy them up. Lazy fucking stoner, lol

 

[dude9000]

I'm looking for some suplimental lighting for the tops of my girls in flower. I have 4 ladies with a 1000W in the center, 400W in two corners and t5s in the other corners, also a couple CFLs taking care of some shadows.
All lighting is Vertical and the lady's are trees, the pairs in their own undercurrent set ups.
It seems like little modular set ups are the way for me to go and everything I add I would like to move towards LED mainly to keep down on heat and the quality is also pretty impressive.
I'm on the fence about either using a single Cree 2530, Vero18s at 2700 or several red/blues for the tops?

 

[PICOGRAV]

Disconnecting the nuetral makes sense if there's a risk it might be the L line by mistake - it'd suck to have a live part by accident. That quote is really useful showing the risks.

But I know one way to guarantee correct orientation - I'm fitting an IEC socket for the power connection.

It has an M205 fuse holder too so that's another component I don't have to worry about connecting (my soldering is much improved from when I last used my iron, but I'm still pretty bad).


So my question is: I'm definitely switching the active line, so it should be OK to leave the neutral connected?



Sorry for the questions like this guys - do chime in or tell me to shut up! This stuff is difficult to google - keywords bring up millions of pages that aren't useful.

I'll take some pictures and post up a parts list once this is together. Hopefully others can see how easy it is. I'd hate to have to solder 20mm stars now that I've plugged in a few Vero, heh.

Smokey the best way to wire a ac line switch is to use DPDT double pole double tap, one tap is connected to AC line and Neutral and the other taps to ground so when you switch your device off and unplug the power cord, there is no possibility of shock from residual power left in any filter caps or anything similar.

 

[smokey the cat]

That's a useful thing to know - took me a half hour to try and understand what you meant but makes total sense. When "on" driver's L&N connected to AC L&N, when "off" the driver's L&N both connect to ground. Clever - back to Jaycar with me...
---


Single pole switches not withstanding, I have been running a gentle test of em. I'm still waiting on heatsink glue so emitters taped in place with generic silver compound.

I knew PWM dimming would be a thing - and it's definitely the case. The emitters only light-up at around 20% of power. Sadly there is no slow beautiful ramp up of glow like what you see with a benchtop DC supply. It is handy to be able to cut the light with just the dimmers - according to the data sheet the dimming function can't go down to zero so it's a nice bonus.


This is a dim as they get - maybe 20W of light here.


To my eye the 3000k-80CRI definitely gives a yellow light - a few clicks warmer than I would have expected. It'll be interesting to see how the plants cope and if the 3000k-3500k combo results in too much stretch.

So far with testing I haven't noticed any heat output from the drivers - according to the data sheet they should be ~91% efficient at full load. I've only flipped up to full power once for a few seconds at a time - ~105W.

 

[PICOGRAV]

That's a useful thing to know - took me a half hour to try and understand what you meant but makes total sense. When "on" driver's L&N connected to AC L&N, when "off" the driver's L&N both connect to ground. Clever - back to Jaycar with me...
---


Single pole switches not withstanding, I have been running a gentle test of em. I'm still waiting on heatsink glue so emitters taped in place with generic silver compound.

I knew PWM dimming would be a thing - and it's definitely the case. The emitters only light-up at around 20% of power. Sadly there is no slow beautiful ramp up of glow like what you see with a benchtop DC supply. It is handy to be able to cut the light with just the dimmers - according to the data sheet the dimming function can't go down to zero so it's a nice bonus.

View attachment 2915041
This is a dim as they get - maybe 20W of light here.


To my eye the 3000k-80CRI definitely gives a yellow light - a few clicks warmer than I would have expected. It'll be interesting to see how the plants cope and if the 3000k-3500k combo results in too much stretch.

So far with testing I haven't noticed any heat output from the drivers - according to the data sheet they should be ~91% efficient at full load. I've only flipped up to full power once for a few seconds at a time - ~105W.

Another point for the analog power supply ?

The colors look pretty good from that pic, interested to see how these go.

I know you think you will be okay with out but please tell me you're gonna use the mounting holes...

I don't think stretching is going to be a lighting issue with these.

 

[smokey the cat]

Fucken oath, of course I'm gonna try the adhesive first lol. I actually don't have an alternative - I can't find suitable self-tappers locally (m2.5 wtf?!? )

Besides, look what Santa delivered today:


Just over 1ml of StevesLEDs precious fluid. Heat-sealed baggie to keep out moisture.

I do want to try the glue anyway. The contact patch shouldn't be too far off the size of a 20mm star. Plus we know from millions of heatsink reviews that with 100W heat sources of similar-to Vero-size that the difference between properly applied cheap silicon grease and top-shelf silver is only 2-3*C at most. This glue claims performance like nasty silicon paste.

V18 data sheet shows 10% decrease in output with 60*C rise in temperature.


So if it sticks well, and if it transmits heat ok, and if output doesn't seem deleteriously effected then I'll keep it. If it don't I supposed I'll need to order some screws online.

At least Vero are pretty bulletproof in terms of handling high temp.

 

[algrow12]

Smokey I told you I have the same setup the light comes on at 14 ohms or 233 (mA). It will get warm when you leave it on for about 3 hours. I run mine at 63 ohms or about 1052(mA) and it gets warm to the touch. It won't burn you like the 70w hps would but it is warm. For screws I used a #6 and a 1/8th inch drill bit its aluminum so I just got two extra screws and tap it with one. I still have one left. I think the glue will work just fine I used cheap ceramique 2 tri-linear ceramic thermal compound. It seems to work just fine.

 

[smokey the cat]

Smokey I told you I have the same setup the light comes on at 14 ohms or 233 (mA). It will get warm when you leave it on for about 3 hours. I run mine at 63 ohms or about 1052(mA) and it gets warm to the touch. It won't burn you like the 70w hps would but it is warm.

So you did mate Too much soz!

I've had mine sitting at around 1000-1100mA for the last day (around 50-55% on the 100k trimpot). Seems to be a bit of a sweet spot in terms of heat generation (fuck all) versus light output (pretty bright). I'm not smart

I've hot glued a spare 120mm 12V fan on the heatsink and at that level of output is feels slightly cooler than skin temp.

 

[bicit]

Just an off the wall question. But could you use a sieries of say 12 v car batteries to 48 v and a dc-dc converter to power a vero 29?

How do you control your light cycles with those big power supplies?

 

[Beefbisquit]

Just an off the wall question. But could you use a sieries of say 12 v car batteries to 48 v and a dc-dc converter to power a vero 29?

How do you control your light cycles with those big power supplies?

I'm no expert, but for running a sustained light I think you'd want a deep cell marine battery, not a car battery.

 

[PICOGRAV]

Just an off the wall question. But could you use a sieries of say 12 v car batteries to 48 v and a dc-dc converter to power a vero 29?

How do you control your light cycles with those big power supplies?

You could yes, I walk up to them and turn them on or off...

 

[smokey the cat]

Gidday thread,

I dunno about you lot, but I've been enjoying not having to thinking about LED lights for a bit. Sheeeit, I've watching them grow.

Once my build tested OK then I refitted my micro-cab, enlarging the flower chamber significantly. And switched my lights - from an array of 36W PLL with internal magnetic ballasts, to two Vero 18 each powered by a 60W Meanwell externally mounted driver.

This was on day 32 of my current 60 day flower cycle. A mammoth fucking task to complete during a single light cycle, eventually it took me two late nights to get everything installed and working as it should.

Plants responded immediately, it really was quite lovely to watch. Plants seem to transpire differently under LED, or maybe it was the drop in heat from the switch, but they definitely started drinking way less. Resin popped up, weight began to pile on, plants started grizzling with new food requirements.

I'm shuttering my grow in January for a short spell, so no chance to launch anything new. To not waste the opportunity I decided the just throw a couple of well established clones under the light. On the edge of the grow chamber even shaded somewhat by established plants they have been in a suboptimal position and one I'd expect to start to see stretch. But not so - I'm seeing nice internode length, perhaps even a bit too short.

Been pondering colour choices I made: low-CRI 3000k & 3500k. 3000k is definitely yellower, so much so that 3500k seems a bit "brighter" at the same output. On initial switch plants seemed to slightly slightly bulkier under one light, slightly frostier on the other - it was interesting to note these initial changes as they were quite pronounced. Now of course I've rotated the crop and raised and lowered and tested differing light levels - but it'll be interesting too see what further testing reveals.

I'm not sure how "dripping with dankness" my buds are, and how much is related to the lights, or the poor micro grow in 2l soil hempy, or the whatever. Things are currently OK, but not as dank as when I ran 240W of high white fluro which produced wonderfully greasy buds. But to reiterate - it wasn't a great grow on day 32 when I switched to Vero they've done a great job considering.

First full grow will go into the chamber in mid January - probably 4l hempy style organic soil buckets.

 

[smokey the cat]

Look @ does nodes!

 

[bicit]

I walk up to them and turn them on or off...

Could you use a traditional timer with that type of power supply?