Plant Moisture Stress - Symptoms and Solutions

J

Justoner

Member
hi this is my first real grow iv been having this problem for a while and its starting to get worse ive decieded to flush this one and startover since they are all pretty wrecked now but id like to figure out what went wrong any help would be nice thanx
nutes
vita bloom, calmag, snow storm ultra, seaweed , silica blast, botanicare sweet, superthrive, and i used faxfarm grow for veg
 

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riddleme

riddleme

Well-Known Member
vita bloom, calmag, snow storm ultra, seaweed , silica blast, botanicare sweet, superthrive, and i used faxfarm grow for veg
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looks like the problem to me


Edit Sorry UB, couldn't resist
 
J

Justoner

Member
So am I definetly looking at to many nutes? An if so which do you suggest iv been trying to decide between strictly foxfarm or botanicare or should I mix and match again thanks for any input
 
DTR

DTR

Active Member
awesome thread im still reading through it and feel like im learning :hump:

my soil mix is foxfarms 2parts ocean forest 1part light warrior 1 part chunky perlite with one cup piece of mind fruit and flower

was fed just distled water 6.5ish untill flower when i got foxfarms bigbloom organic and trying to get closer to 6.0

light is 600hps small closet 2.5ft deep 7ft wide 8ft tall 59-83 temps but average in 60ish lights off and 74ish lights on with 4inch vortec inline fan hooked to the hood and a ocliating fan infront of the intake blowing over the soil and up through the canopy

she was left in the 1.1QT a bit to long then put in a 5gallon but still looks healthy other then the sulfer for powdery mildew:spew:
to water iv been doing the weight test and she stays heavy so i dont give her water that often

how long would be to long to wait between waterings?

thank you for all the great information in your posts
 

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Uncle Ben

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
Justoner said:
So am I definetly looking at to many nutes? An if so which do you suggest iv been trying to decide between strictly foxfarm or botanicare or should I mix and match again thanks for any input
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Depends on the final NPK values that your plants "see", and what they require.

DTR said:
awesome thread im still reading through it and feel like im learning :hump:

my soil mix is foxfarms 2parts ocean forest 1part light warrior 1 part chunky perlite with one cup piece of mind fruit and flower

was fed just distled water 6.5ish untill flower when i got foxfarms bigbloom organic and trying to get closer to 6.0

light is 600hps small closet 2.5ft deep 7ft wide 8ft tall 59-83 temps but average in 60ish lights off and 74ish lights on with 4inch vortec inline fan hooked to the hood and a ocliating fan infront of the intake blowing over the soil and up through the canopy

she was left in the 1.1QT a bit to long then put in a 5gallon but still looks healthy other then the sulfer for powdery mildew:spew:
to water iv been doing the weight test and she stays heavy so i dont give her water that often

how long would be to long to wait between waterings?

thank you for all the great information in your posts
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If you wait until the leaves droop, you've gone too long without water.
 
DTR

DTR

Active Member
thank you for the response i dont think i worded my question well enough my concern is im about 3weeks into flower and i jumped pot size a bit to much about 2 weeks ago and its probably closer to 5-7 days between watering were the rest are every 1-3days she doesnt wilt but the base stays heavy the rest went from 2.5gal to a 5gal and she went 1.1QT to 5gal
im a noob grower and probably over thinking things i just want to learn as much as i can so each crop gets a bit smoother
will the water become Stagnant in 1 week?
could this be some sort of lock out?
or is it just more medium then plant and shes taking her time?
at how many days between waterings do you become Concerned?
thank you again for your help
 
Uncle Ben

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
>>will the water become Stagnant in 1 week?

If you don't have drain holes, it will be a death blow.

>>could this be some sort of lock out?

Your guess is as good as mine, or, my guess is as good as yours....take your pick. :D

>>or is it just more medium then plant and shes taking her time?

You need to upcan BEFORE flowering and let the plant become established. A healthy root system along with plenty of foliage will wick off alot of soil moisture, quickly depending on conditions like RH, temps, plant material mass, etc. Once flowering commences, root production is put on the back burner. Sounds like you jumped the gun.

>>at how many days between waterings do you become Concerned?
thank you again for your help

Hoo nose? If your pot isn't getting light to the lift in say....5 days, I'd be concerned about root rot pressures. I have to water 3-5 gallon pots twice a day with a quart each session, but then again I grow "trees" with alot of root mass and foliage, like this.



It's all relative. No two gardens are the same.

As an aside, notice the heavy mass of flowers (and leaves) at the bottom of this plant? Don't believe the lollipopping kids who hype that light won't get to the bottom of a plant. This proves them wrong. Hmmmmm, upon close inspection of this plant, I just noticed that this plant actually has more flower/bud mass at the bottom than at the top!

UB
 

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DTR

DTR

Active Member
thank you Uncle Ben
i do have good pots with drain holes and will not jump pot size like that again i panicked when the pm hit and just tossed them into flower then got the bigger pots
if i end up with no smoke thats fine as long as next grow is better
books and videos can only take you so far this site is great because of people like you and being able to have people see your plants through pix and video its all about learning your plants and the advice of veteran growers like yourself
i hope i can grow healthy trees like you someday i wont give up and if i learn from my mistakes i should gain a large amount of knowledge
 
Uncle Ben

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
DTR said:
thank you Uncle Ben
i do have good pots with drain holes and will not jump pot size like that again i panicked when the pm hit and just tossed them into flower then got the bigger pots
if i end up with no smoke thats fine as long as next grow is better
books and videos can only take you so far this site is great because of people like you and being able to have people see your plants through pix and video its all about learning your plants and the advice of veteran growers like yourself
i hope i can grow healthy trees like you someday i wont give up and if i learn from my mistakes i should gain a large amount of knowledge
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You're welcome. Sometimes the education and experience is more meaningful than the result. When I fail, I just write it off to experience and pray I don't repeat my mistakes the next time!
 
Katatawnic

Katatawnic

Well-Known Member
Uncle Ben said:
As an aside, notice the heavy mass of flowers (and leaves) at the bottom of this plant? Don't believe the lollipopping kids who hype that light won't get to the bottom of a plant. This proves them wrong. Hmmmmm, upon close inspection of this plant, I just noticed that this plant actually has more flower/bud mass at the bottom than at the top!

UB
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I was preparing for part one of a two-parter harvest a week ago, and am glad I go by the "measure twice, cut once" mantra... the lower buds, believe it or not, were done "baking" while the top ones were still growing lots of new pistils and showing promise of more development! Just to be sure, I took one of the lower buds and quick dried it. The next afternoon I gave it a try, and it was absolutely DONE... as was I within a few moments! :eyesmoke: :lol: After I had me a nice nap :mrgreen: I removed all of the buds that were done for trimming, and left (mostly the upper half of) the plant under the lights to bake more. (One of the colas were done; the smallest one. The rest I left on the plant.) Sure enough, those colas are still developing. Had I taken them down last week, I highly doubt they'd have the "punch" that the lower ones have.

Now, the lower buds started developing at the same time the colas did rather than a bit later, and developed at the same rate throughout the flowering process. So it would make sense to me that the smaller ones would be done first, as there is less bulk to finish per bud. If I were to bake two cookies on one cookie sheet, one glob of dough average sized and one large, the small cookie will be done baking well before the large one... so my logic in this is going by an analogy such as the cookies. I could be wrong, but it's what makes sense to me at this time; a new lesson in botany could teach me the actual reason if I'm off.

Also, I do tie my four main branches down after topping, just to the edge of the pot before I allow them to grow vertically. (No more veg time for me this way; they just don't get as tall, but the same amount of vegetative growth all the same. Just more horizontal for a couple of weeks. Tying four branches once isn't any more work for me than watering once.) So most of those lower bud sites get more light and air circulation early on, during the veg cycle. This could have a lot to do with why most of my lower buds are finishing before the colas: lots of direct light to all bud sites and fan leaves from early on, hence early development of the little buds. (BTW, very few of the lower buds would be classified as "popcorns" either; they were very good-sized nuggets.) The plants I didn't tie this way had main colas the same size, but a lot less lower bud growth.

I don't tie each and every little stem like I did my first round though. That was a lot of time and work invested, and the yield it wasn't nearly enough of an increase to bother with that much work. But to the lollipoppers, might I suggest topping once and tying those main branches once? I don't allow them to get larger horizontally than the edge of the pots, so they're not taking up any more room than they would grown straight up. Yet I did see a noticeable increase in yield and in size of lower buds (little to no popcorns) doing it this way. I've got a nasty case of arthritis, so the last thing my hands need is to trim loads of popcorns. Topping and tying once each has eliminated this problem for me, given me more dry weight in the process... and the lower buds are very potent and have the bag appeal we seek as well! :bigjoint:

(Sorry no photos, I'll work on that ASAP. Sent the camera with hubby to his deployment in Iraq, and of course it came back ruined; which I'd expected beforehand. My cheapie replacement died a few weeks ago, so I'm without a camera for the time being.)
 
seasmoke

seasmoke

Active Member
UB, I see that you also have a little browning of the tips. is that solely a nitro thing? I mean which specific nute causes that burn? I suspect its the Urea. I noticed that though jacks cloassic is high on Urea with its all purpose, it has none at all in its bloom booster...Shultz and MG are just the opposite, they are high in Urea in their bloom food...


I've been giving them just water for over the last week, 2 gallons per 5 gallon pot every three days, enough so I have a decent run-off, and i've still got brown tips...the leaves themselves are nice....well, most of them. I don't see any of it while in vegg growth, fed with 3\4 dose MG 24-8-16 every 7-10 Days or in the first three weeks of bud. Weeks 4- finish it shows up. Been using MG 15-30-15 diluted 1/2-3/4 strength once every ten days...6 feedings over two months of light dosage, with fresh water in between, I didn't think they would burn. I know you suggested backing off on the nutes (thanks to replying to my PM), but is MG 15-30-15 to powerfull for MJ?
 
Uncle Ben

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
seasmoke said:
UB, I see that you also have a little browning of the tips. is that solely a nitro thing? I mean which specific nute causes that burn? I suspect its the Urea. I noticed that though jacks cloassic is high on Urea with its all purpose, it has none at all in its bloom booster...Shultz and MG are just the opposite, they are high in Urea in their bloom food...
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Urea is a slow release source of N that I don't believe will cause leaf tip burn. I always have heat episodes, where the heat in the room gets too high. This usually induces leaf cupping too. The browning of a few leaf tips in the previous photo is negligible. Don't worry about a few brown leaf tips if the leaf is healthy overall.

I know you suggested backing off on the nutes (thanks to replying to my PM), but is MG 15-30-15 to powerfull for MJ?
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Shouldn't be. I assume your adding up all the nutritional values in your program - soil, foods, etc.

Kat, if you're gonna tie the branches down, why wouldn't you leave them that way until harvest? I see no purpose in tieing them down for a few weeks and then placing them upright again. IOW, if they are prostrate, then you'll get good output all along the branch.
 
Katatawnic

Katatawnic

Well-Known Member
Uncle Ben said:
Kat, if you're gonna tie the branches down, why wouldn't you leave them that way until harvest? I see no purpose in tieing them down for a few weeks and then placing them upright again. IOW, if they are prostrate, then you'll get good output all along the branch.
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I do. Perhaps my saying I tie them "once" sounded like I don't leave them tied? Sorry if I didn't clarify. I meant that they're tied a few weeks into veg, grown horizontally to the edges of the pots, and then allowed to grow vertically from there... where they're tied at the pots' edges. So I end up with my four "main" colas, several "lesser" colas, lots of nuggets, and very few popcorns. ;)

The plant in this photo was topped, tied, then topped again. Now I skip the second topping and flip to 12/12 instead. :hump:
 
Uncle Ben

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
Got it Kat. Sure wish the law wasn't so strict as I'd be growing pot using a grape trellis system. This training would work great for pot with a few minor mods. It's called Vertical Shoot Positioning using a bi-lateral cordon. Would be extremely easy to do - you'd top to 2 main colas, train them to a wire about 12" above the ground, run them along the wire and then tip them at say......3' long to shape them up as a "T". Output would then be vertically positioned.

Imagine a room with wires attached at each end of a wall using an eyeball screwed into a wall stud, about a foot above the top of a 5 gallon pot. These would be your rows. Now imagine a series of horizontal fixtures on a light mover, each crawling back and forth down their particular row. With 24" aisles to be able to work the garden, you could really set up a nice, very productive grow room.

UB
 
seasmoke

seasmoke

Active Member
Uncle Ben said:
Got it Kat. Sure wish the law wasn't so strict as I'd be growing pot using a grape trellis system. This training would work great for pot with a few minor mods. It's called Vertical Shoot Positioning using a bi-lateral cordon. Would be extremely easy to do - you'd top to 2 main colas, train them to a wire about 12" above the ground, run them along the wire and then tip them at say......3' long to shape them up as a "T". Output would then be vertically positioned.

Imagine a room with wires attached at each end of a wall using an eyeball screwed into a wall stud, about a foot above the top of a 5 gallon pot. These would be your rows. Now imagine a series of horizontal fixtures on a light mover, each crawling back and forth down their particular row. With 24" aisles to be able to work the garden, you could really set up a nice, very productive grow room.

UB
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Interesting concept UB.

The nitrogen though...I'm going with Peters Classic BB. It has 0 Urea and I may be using to much as it is. In the MG all purpose its 20% urea, and the bloom has 10% UREA....I think I would like more control of the N than slow released...
 
Uncle Ben

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
hydroalltheway said:
What are my three out of four plants new shoots keep growing all twisted, cupped, and only at the top third of the plant. Not using soil . here are a couple of pics to look at.
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Looks like the root system is shot. Read page one, you'll find your answer there.
 
wyteboi

wyteboi

Well-Known Member
So is all organic food non-soluble to plants? if so is there a way to make it soluble? I hate to waste all this organic food but my plants need food now , not when the biologicals build up weeks from now? i really dont think my microbes are built up enough to do their job.....yet.
Also i just looked at the breakdown on promix and it contains a wetting agent? i kinda got an idea of what it is , but how will this affect my watering? i always just wait till the pot is "light" , with this wetting agent shit , should i wait till they start to droop till i water? (just once to give me a better idea exactly when they are dry) Im lost ...
PHOT0614.jpgPHOT0620.jpg


Thanks UB

wb:joint:
 
DaveCoulier

DaveCoulier

Well-Known Member
wyteboi said:
So is all organic food non-soluble to plants? if so is there a way to make it soluble? I hate to waste all this organic food but my plants need food now , not when the biologicals build up weeks from now? i really dont think my microbes are built up enough to do their job.....yet.
Also i just looked at the breakdown on promix and it contains a wetting agent? i kinda got an idea of what it is , but how will this affect my watering? i always just wait till the pot is "light" , with this wetting agent shit , should i wait till they start to droop till i water? (just once to give me a better idea exactly when they are dry) Im lost ...
View attachment 673153View attachment 673154


Thanks UB

wb:joint:
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Promix and organic nutes dont mix too well. Promix is just peat moss and no microbes. If you are going to go organic nutes with Peat moss, you need to amend it with compost, EWC, or composted manure to get a nice colony of microbes.

Get some synthetic nutes to get your plants on track.

That wetting agent is there to make it easier to rewet peat. Dont wait till the plants are waiting to droop. Once peat dries out its a bitch to re-wet. I let my plants go a day too long before watering, and when I watered them today I gave em 64 ounces of water in 2.3 gallon grow bags, and some of them were still light when lifted because it dried out too much even though I had run-off.

P.S. I hate peat moss.
 
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