Plant Moisture Stress - Symptoms and Solutions

Hello Uncle Ben,
I see you have a lot of post to reply to, I have or had at some point during this grow almost all the problems you have addressed in your original post. First off im growing random bag seed which is pretty unpredictable. My main issue is with my "tall plant" it is 10 weeks into flowering has tons of milky trichomes and none of the hairs (pistils) are red which i think is odd. As I have grown 2 other times indoors and outdoors. Also i just found one male flower on one of the smaller buds which means I could be flowering too long? I have three plants 10 weeks into flowering. The tallest one has large calyxes looks kinda sativa (as i know the term) and has shown THC since like week 4. She then had nutrient burn or something, leaves curling. I had to go away for 2 weeks during weeks 4-6 of flowering and had a buddy of mine take care of my plants. He didnt do a very good job as I had 6 and 3 went hermy. The other two plants one of which is showing a decent amount of THC and has small-medium calyxes. The last plant of mine the largest as far as amount of bud just started showing THC at week 9 and a half. The 2 i just mentioned just started recovering from what i believe was a PH problem and nutrient lock out. There leaves started to get very cripsy and turned to dust when i touch them. Even the leaves in the buds.

Now I know they are in only 1 and 1/2 gallon pots. I think this may be the cause, but I do not know. I have to water every day. Do you think my entire growth may be stunted due to the small pots? The plants do drink the water i feed them PH'd at like 6.3-6.6. I am thinking the plants probably suffer from heat stress caused by hot spots from the HPS.

Here are some pictures from 2 weeks ago, the plants have changed a great deal actually much more TH, but I believe they are recovering from nutrient burn/lockout and maybe to much caclium. I think i compounded the problem by givin the plants to much epsom salts and dolo lime. I have viewed the trichomes on each with a pocket microscope. The 2 in the back seem almost done if not done already. I know the stress and problems i have must of added some weeks onto the flowering.

"sigh I always over do the correction of plants problems and end up with even more problems" I

Here are some pictures. The front plant is the "largest one with small calyxes and just started showing THC." The one behind it is the "medium" plant that showed the most crisping. The one in the white pot is the "tallest or one with no red hairs yet and most visible THC".

Anyway since I dont really know how long flowering was suppose to take and I am not sure what kind of strains I have anyway you can tell if i should keep going? Take into account the "tall one" is reallly frosty now.

Any input you can give me about what I did wrong I would appreciate.

Ill try to get some more recent pictures for you. My dang camera's battery wont charge.

Thanks

ghosty87 said:

.....My main issue is with my "tall plant" it is 10 weeks into flowering has tons of milky trichomes and none of the hairs (pistils) are red which i think is odd.

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That's cause it's not ready. Sativa stuff.

As I have grown 2 other times indoors and outdoors. Also i just found one male flower on one of the smaller buds which means I could be flowering too long?

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When you get alot of "bananas", it's time to harvest. Could be a stress issue too, or just Mexican bagseed genetics. Equatorial and Asian stock tends to hermie easily.

There leaves started to get very cripsy and turned to dust when i touch them. Even the leaves in the buds.

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Moisture issue. Most likely you over fertilized. Has nothing to do with pH. I see the pH thingie used around these parts as an excuse for not understanding other issues.

Now I know they are in only 1 and 1/2 gallon pots. I think this may be the cause, but I do not know. I have to water every day. Do you think my entire growth may be stunted due to the small pots?

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Good possibility. Only one way to find out, pop one out and see. A 4'+ plant would greatly benefit from a 3 or 5 gallon pot. Production is related to the amount of healthy root and foliage mass your plants have.

Here are some pictures from 2 weeks ago, the plants have changed a great deal actually much more TH, but I believe they are recovering from nutrient burn/lockout and maybe to much caclium. I think i compounded the problem by givin the plants to much epsom salts and dolo lime.

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How much did you give them?

"sigh I always over do the correction of plants problems and end up with even more problems"

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That is pretty typical. Folks think this and that, listen to the wrong people, have not quite figured out the dynamics of their problems, throw more stuff at their plants and end up doing more harm than good. Cannabis is very easy to grow, but one "aw shit" and it usually doesn't recover. Expect those severely cupped leaves to stay as they are.

Anyway since I dont really know how long flowering was suppose to take and I am not sure what kind of strains I have anyway you can tell if i should keep going? Take into account the "tall one" is reallly frosty now.

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That's your call. Harvest when new calyx/pistil development comes to a crawl, about 80% of the pistils are red or brown, and the calyxes plump like they are full of seeds. Some use the color of trichomes as another criteria of when to harvest. If you see alot of trichomes which are turning amber, it may be time to harvest.

Good luck ~

Thanks for the response,

I gave each plant about 3-5 tsp of fine powerdered dolomatic lime on the top surface of the soil. I then watered the first night with a gallon of water with like a table spoon of epsom salt, I read in another forum to do this. Seemed like a lot. It then said to water with 1-2 tsp of epsom salt for a few waterings after that until I see it get better. I also used distilled water for a few waterings and everything went down hill.

2 weeks ago I posted since that was when the problems really were bad. I recieved help from people on rollitup. They told me to stop the distilled water since its PH is 7.0 and i did. I started using spring water and Ph'd it to 6.2-6.5. It seems to have helped. I also started using Molasses as recommended by people on this forum which also seemed to have helped. I think the plants may be nutrient depreived by this point since they are in such small pots and thats why the molasses helped. Apparently its a carbo load and has some calcium, iron, and Magnesium as well.

I was using the foxfarm complete nutrient line. Grow big, big bloom, tiger bloom, open sesame, beastie blooms, cha ching. I think the last 3 are way to powerful. Last grow i used them in half the amount and got good results. This grow i used them in 1/4 the amount recommended.

Also i bought a soil PH test kit recently with N-P-K test also. My soil apparently has a PH of around 7. And is deficient in N-P-K. I still havent addded nutrients to the ones that are showing more THC. The one that has small calyxes is still getting nutes every other day.

Good Morning all. I hope everyone had a nice weekend. I did, and my plants did too.

I do have a question:

I'm running Hempy buckets....things are going well, plants are thriving, minimal trouble...mainly just that I burned a lower fan leaf with nute-splash, and I've got a couple brown tips on some lower leaves, but mostly things look perfect.

Here's my question: the water temp in the bottom of the buckets is room temp....about 78-85 degrees hi/lo. I'm musing on whether or not the plants are going to get enough oxygen in the future when they are really large, so I'm wondering if I should use H2o2?

I'm running Fox Farms trio, feeding at 1/2 strength 2x per week, watering with PH'd water and CalMag in between feedings.

Will H2o2 mess up the bacteria?
Is there a better product?

Thanks in advance.

ghosty87 said:

Thanks for the response,

I gave each plant about 3-5 tsp of fine powerdered dolomatic lime on the top surface of the soil. I then watered the first night with a gallon of water with like a table spoon of epsom salt, I read in another forum to do this.

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Ouch! Just what I thought and the reason why I asked - you burned your plants with too much salts. Quite easy to see too. By taking your friends' advice, you have ruined your plants. It's quite clear they don't know what makes a plant tick. Epsom salts, the noob's magic cure-all, eh? Sheesh! Based on all those salts, anything over 1/2 tsp. of epsom salts per gallon of water is too much. BTW, do you know the symptoms of a Mg deficiency? By adding stuff the plant does not want or need, you just toasted them creating a nutrient antagonism issue: http://www.totalgro.com/concepts.htm

I would flush the soil, give them a mild drench of a balanced fertilizer like 1/2 tsp./gallon of a food designed for soil until harvest, Peter's is a good brand....and hope for the best. A balanced 20-20-20 with micros would work fine. If you don't know or understand the NPK ratios of the salts your plants are getting from all those sources, then you're in big trouble.

Good luck,
UB

DocBud said:

Will H2o2 mess up the bacteria?
Is there a better product?

Thanks in advance.

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Yes, it will kill bacteria but it all depends on the strength. I don't do buckets but would think that if you have the right mix of air and water at the root zone, you won't need H2O2.

I would think that 85F would support the growth of bacteria, mold, fungi, etc.

I actually am still flushing since I over did the magnesium 2 weeks ago. The plants are still alive just taking a lot longer to grow now. Its a real pain in the ass since i have to be done by the 15th of October. Which means I will have 12 weeks of flowering time.

Tonight ill try to take some New current pictures. The pictures i had were from 2 weeks ago when they were really hurting.

Uncle Ben said:

Yes, it will kill bacteria but it all depends on the strength. I don't do buckets but would think that if you have the right mix of air and water at the root zone, you won't need H2O2.

I would think that 85F would support the growth of bacteria, mold, fungi, etc.

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Sounds good. If it ain't broke, dont' fix it. Right now, things are going good, so I'll do nothing but give low doses of nutes every other watering.

Next time, I'll start 'em off in smaller pots.

Mr Ben, I have been reading your complete thread, and feel i have learnt quite a lot. After Reading many books, and after feeling comfortable, i am now attempting my first grow.
Everything has been going really well. 4th week into flowering, medium is canna coco. Using A+B plus cannazym. Was using just this till now. I am now using the canna boost and lots of my plants (mainly indica) which have plenty of foliage are now budding strong and cant get enough feeding.

A couple of my sativa plants are growing strong, not as much foliage compared to my others but are strong. Since the boost and increased levels of nutes the newest top leaves around the main top bud are now leaf cupping and rolling downward and inwards on themselves. They dont look at all dead, maybe a little dry but are severely cupping.

After thinking that i am over boosting them a little bit with the nutes although are strong (as you said. Nutes and water ratio to foliage etc. Think i must have a salt build up.

I want to save this plant as it does look gd, just want to confirm what to do.
Was going to flush with pH corrected tap water, for a 5 days or so (or when i think they are ready for nutes again) and then giving them a dosage i think is adequate which will have to be less compared to the other indicas. Will the leaves come back from the curling or will new leaves just develop instead???

Also can you give me flushing advice, if it is even necessary?
I heard if you flush using normal water for 10days or so, the plants start to wilt and i thought this would effect the end result of the buds... So i was going to cut the stalk when ready and then submerse the stalk in a beaker of water with an air stone so it quickly takes up the water and supposedly can flush the plant nicely in 3 days or so before any problems can occur.

Is this recomended? I really wasnt sure what to do about this step considering some buds or areas of the plant could be ready before others are ready to be harvested.

How do you go about flushing and harvesting?

Sorry if this message is a bit all over the place, but i have so much to ask considering you have experience and all books i read arent too helpful when it comes to this stage.

Thank you

JAH

hello, since this seems to be the authoritative curly leaf thread, i've noticed a little droopies over the last day or 2. i'm 99% sure its not over fert since we don't use any...we just used tigerbloom for the first time tonite. i'm not too sure from the symptoms, i would guess underwatering since they are good sized..we water them every other day. here's a video to check out, you'll see the droopers. i tried to make it small, its about 4mb

www.cub3rt5x.com/ladies.avi

for info they are under 3 600w lumatek hps vented system

any tips or comments are appreciated, first grow here so i'm like a nervous parent


thanks riu and uncle ben especially for this crushingly informative thread

Hello again Uncle Ben,

Here are some pictures i just took with my phone camera. Please refer to my last 2 post on this thread for my questions and such. Anyway i think you answered them, but if you can see if there is any change hopefully these plants are getting better from the nutrient burn and etc...

JAH87 said:

Everything has been going really well. 4th week into flowering, medium is canna coco. Using A+B plus cannazym. Was using just this till now. I am now using the canna boost and lots of my plants (mainly indica) which have plenty of foliage are now budding strong and cant get enough feeding.

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Hi, glad you enjoy the thread. First things first. Since I don't use "cannabis specific foods", I can not totally relate to your issues. If you stick to botany regarding NPK/micros and the frequency and amount of salts relative to the plant's processes and size, then we can talk apple to apples regarding plant nutrition. I have seen more gardens ruined by noobs following charts, "advice", and being attracted to ads and fancy labels, etc. rather than learning what makes a plant tick.

After thinking that i am over boosting them a little bit with the nutes although are strong (as you said. Nutes and water ratio to foliage etc. Think i must have a salt build up.

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This is a perfect example. The word "nutes" is meaningless to me. Would that be a total salt content of 3-69-2? 11-23-59? You must strike a happy medium between not enough salts (mainly N) which will stunt a plant and too much which will do more harm than good. Same with all the other factors such as light. You must find the light saturation point whereby any more bleaches out the leaf's chlorophyll. This is personal gardener's issue, it is not black and white.

Was going to flush with pH corrected tap water, for a 5 days or so (or when i think they are ready for nutes again) and then giving them a dosage i think is adequate which will have to be less compared to the other indicas. Will the leaves come back from the curling or will new leaves just develop instead???

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1. You're guessing. Just try it and if it doesn't work, you'll know better next time. Keep a journal.

2. Leaves most likely will not uncurl, damage has been done. If they stay green then they are still capable of photosynthesis, and that's all that matters. Pay attention to the condition of new output.

Also can you give me flushing advice, if it is even necessary?

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Flushing is a myth. There's recent thread on this.

I heard if you flush using normal water for 10days or so, the plants start to wilt and i thought this would effect the end result of the buds...

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It will. Anybody that has an inkling of plant nutrition knows that if you deprives a plant of proper nutrition thereby inducing premature leaf drop, you will lose out on potential production, it's just common sense. You should keep the leaves healthy and green until harvest for best production. If you're getting leaves (especially bud leaves) that dry up, are crispy, gritty, then you've used too much salts aka "nutes".

So i was going to cut the stalk when ready and then submerse the stalk in a beaker of water with an air stone so it quickly takes up the water and supposedly can flush the plant nicely in 3 days or so before any problems can occur.

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Whatever floats yer boat mah man.

How do you go about flushing and harvesting?

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Aint got the time bro. Buy Mel Frank's Insiders book, lurk, read posts drafted by those that know their chit.

cub3rt5x said:

hello, since this seems to be the authoritative curly leaf thread, i've noticed a little droopies over the last day or 2. i'm 99% sure its not over fert since we don't use any...we just used tigerbloom for the first time tonite.

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Here we go again. What is the NPK, frequency and amount of application? If you're not using any foods, where are your plants getting their essential elements? BTW, don't mean to sound difficult, but I don't care about cute product names and the A+B+C drills. I can help, but you must speak my language, which is horticultural.

ghosty87 said:

Hello again Uncle Ben,

Here are some pictures i just took with my phone camera. Please refer to my last 2 post on this thread for my questions and such. Anyway i think you answered them, but if you can see if there is any change hopefully these plants are getting better from the nutrient burn and etc...

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Howdy, lookin' better. Like I said above, all you can do is look at the new growth, read your plants. They will tell you if you're on the right track or not.

Good luck fellers.....

sorry i didn't elaborate on the tiger bloom because these signs were present before the first time we ever used it. i used .5 cups for a 12 gallons.. (recommended is 2-3 tsp/gallon its 2-8-4) we're soil, just added it to the water before watering). most of the pots have plenty of moisture down low tested with a meter(i know you're not a fan, but i'm using it to learn), so i assume its over, not under watering. thanks for your time

cub3rt5x said:

sorry i didn't elaborate on the tiger bloom because these signs were present before the first time we ever used it. i used .5 cups for a 12 gallons.. (recommended is 2-3 tsp/gallon its 2-8-4) we're soil, just added it to the water before watering). most of the pots have plenty of moisture down low tested with a meter(i know you're not a fan, but i'm using it to learn), so i assume its over, not under watering. thanks for your time

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I'm not following you. You're in soil but mixing up 12 gallons of a drench containing a 2-8-4 food? The best indicator of when to water is easy - after you do a thorough watering, lift the pot and make a mental note of its weight. When the pot feels light by lifting it, it's time to water.

BTW, the Tiger Bloom may induce leaf drop, that's not enough N to sustain and retain leaves. The more the leaf drop, the more the losses regarding potential bud production. If you see premature leaf drop, substitute a high N food until it stops.

Just to give you a heads up about some of the bullshit you find in this industry, Fox says "This is an ultra-potent, fast-acting, high-phosphorus fertilizer with just enough nitrogen to sustain healthy, vigorous green growth during flowering." Begs the question, if it's "ultra potent" why do they recommend 2-3 tsp./gallon? Most labels recommend no more than 1 tsp./gallon, but then again, they contain a higher amount of NPK, which means you're getting more bang for your buck - i.e. 20-20-20, 20-10-20, 10-30-20. Another heads up - they recommend the same dose for foliar feeding. You foliar feed at the rate of 3 tsp./gallon and you'll have a severe case of foliar burn. Use 1/2 the recommendeded rate for foliar feeding.

Good luck,
UB

yes we have a big rubbermaid deal that sits out to evap all the chlorine, and we added the nutrients into that before we watered last nite. however nice that was the first time we used it, and i had seen the problem before i assumed it was overwatering (droopy, not curled up)

thanks i'll watch for problems with the fertilizer making leaves drop, but the only way i 'feed' them is in the water we give them, is there a better way to do this with soil since if i'm overwatering its hard to feed them more? the original medium is ocean forest by fox farm.

You're trying too hard. Use tap water without the evap drill, add your fertilizer based on plant growth and vigor, water when the plant needs it etc.

so for overwatering/ fertilizatizing what is the best remedy for a 3 week clone...? re-pot with new soil ?

smooth like peanut butter said:

so for overwatering/ fertilizatizing what is the best remedy for a 3 week clone...? re-pot with new soil ?

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Yes, re-pot into fresh soil removing all of the lower demised leaves and burying the "trunk" up to the first leafsets remaining.

uncle ben
i could use some help my plant is 2 weeks into budding and the leaves r wilting i think still a newb. they might be cupping. it has been grown with 6 cfls putting out 1400 lumens each in a home made grow box. i dont know if its heat,over/under watering. i dont know pics to come.

Mr Ben! Thank you for your guidance.
I will check the myth thread on flushing.
Considering im using a different type of feed. I will have to work out and do a little more reading. But for the time being everything is going well...
Thanks again!