Plant wanting more nutes: Hydro Expert help and question

I've done 8 ball kush from barney's before and it likes about 650 max ppm in DWC. Yeah Yeah I know that the same plant or seed can have different pheno types and could like different levels of ppm. When I scrooged the current 8 ball (also toped) and when I bent the couple main stems under the screen it created huge bumps where the main stems connect. Its like that techinuque where people snap the stems to create larger nutrient uptake lanes. I've never seen these bumps this size before... My question is could this cause the plant to like higher ppm levels ???

The only way to find out is to raise the ppm. But do it slightly over a period of time. 30-50ppm raise every 2-3 days. Watch for leaf tip burns ect. I've heard those "knuckles" allow for more nute/water uptake, but not sure of the science behind that theory

Hmm, I cant answer the question with any scientific knowledge so wont.. but 650ppm is extremely low in my experience that is what almost every strain I have ever grown has had at young ages.. unless your using water that starts out at a extremely low ppm. You can get a plant to flower underfeeding tho, my suggestion is slowly crank up the nute dosage.. during flower i usually sit at 1100-1500 range on almost every strain i can remember running thru my dwc..

Even if it really increases efficiency at the knuckle, it doesn't change the plant's nutrients need. 650ppm is quite high already, and is twice as much as I use for young plants (of which half is from tap already) and currently for flowering plants as well. Less is more. It's not a pig, can't fatten it up by providing more nutes than needed.

Ugh, at 2-3 weeks a plant can certainly handle 650 and has done so for many years for me.. But I think instead of fighting everyone water starts off at varying ppms.. And you can certainly effect a strain by the amount you feed it both negatively and positively.

Sativied said:

Even if it really increases efficiency at the knuckle, it doesn't change the plant's nutrients need. 650ppm is quite high already, and is twice as much as I use for young plants (of which half is from tap already) and currently for flowering plants as well. Less is more. It's not a pig, can't fatten it up by providing more nutes than needed.

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Yeah for sure, in early veg I run 450, veg 650, pre flower 900 and I'm currently @ 1330 about 10 days into flower. Growing Larry og. My taps 220-250ppm and that is included in my numbers. But I have some heavy feeders this run, usually top out at 1100 during flowering

AlphaPhase said:

Yeah for sure, in early veg I run 450, veg 650, pre flower 900 and I'm currently @ 1330 about 10 days into flower. Growing Larry og. My taps 220-250ppm and that is included in my numbers. But I have some heavy feeders this run, usually top out at 1100 during flowering

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Good for you.

And the bank accounts of nutrient manufacturers.

For the plants, however, not so much.

"Enough nutrients" to reach its genetic max potential is a wide range between "too little" and "too much". Less is more.

It's ok, been there too. Click pic journal link in sig for 330-350 ppm run, search the Supercropping and Canopy Control thread for 480ppm run. Look further back for 1000+ppm runs.

There are no "heavy feeding" cannabis plants.

I have played with these types of experiments before as well.. and as I said you can grow a plant completely successfully with less... I will not contradict you in that but you can get better results.. and I use the Lucas formula so I dont use anywhere near to what the manufacture say... I see quicker growth with my high N and Cal Mag diet i give them thru veg.. and I add one additive right before flower which gets me over 1000 generally.. if they show signs of low N or calmag at any time those numbers go a lil higher..

remyaz0 said:

I have played with these types of experiments before as well.. and as I said you can grow a plant completely successfully with less... I will not contradict you in that but you can get better results.. and I use the Lucas formula so I dont use anywhere near to what the manufacture say... I see quicker growth with my high N and Cal Mag diet i give them thru veg.. and I add one additive right before flower which gets me over 1000 generally.. if they show signs of low N or calmag at any time those numbers go a lil higher..

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Exactly what I was going to say. I run Lucas as well. Let the plants tell you what they want, sometimes they want less, but @1300 ppm (.7 scale) my plants are doing great, they are rather large and scrogged, fimmed , topped, ect. I guess it depends what nute formula people run. With the Lucas I just hit 1300 the other day and its not wasting nutes. Ppm going down, water going down, pH stable = heavy feeders.

Yea, plants are not like mammals if they eat it they convert it to energy they dont get fat. If they get to much of something they show negative signs..

What you guys are missing is that plants don't eat/feed at all. Plants create food (sex organs) for all animals including humans, from basic elements. Circle of life... They only need 'enough' of those elements in their root zone , more than enough only accumulates in leaves and stems and does not result in more fruit (bud). Staying on the low end also is a lot easier on the roots, which in turns makes it easier to take up all the nutrients they need.

And you cannot determine the nutrient need of a plant by the ppm going up and down alone. Common (forum-)misconception. If the ppm stays stable it merely means only that the total amount of nutrient uptake and water uptake is balanced. It says little to nothing about the 'need' of the plant. The need is full-filled far below that sweet spot.

And no, you don't get more yield from higher ppm. Like I said, the genetically limited maximum yield potential is reached with 'enough' nutrients. Any more can quickly lead to adverse affects (most problems in this forum...).

As for faster vegging... the difference is minimal. Posted my ridiculous fast vegging in a thread about a month ago.

Lucas formula... please... don't get me started.

AlphaPhase said:

Let the plants tell you what they want,

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Exactly. The plants, not your ppm meter.

Perhaps I should add that at the end of the week, I used just as much nutrients as some people running 2-3x my ppm. Instead of dumping it all in the rez at the start of the week, I spread it out, add a little every two days or so.

As i said I have played with these things before and I dont try to fatten buds nor do I waste nutes.. You obviously have your set mind and "scientific stuff" but the plants do react to different nute thresh holds just as much as they do to varying environmental conditions. You can take that how you want wipe your ass with it and forget it I dont care.. In the long run the plants environmental factors are the major players in growth in my experience, so theories in nutrition are irrelevant unless you have those perfect first.. Each of us has our own method that works, I see no need in your method unless you are desperate to save money.

remyaz0 said:

As i said I have played with these things before and I dont try to fatten buds nor do I waste nutes.

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Keep telling yourself that... and I'm the one who has my 'set mind'? You're the one who's afraid to realize that he's been trying to feed plants and waste nutes for years. If I'd insist on being wrong like you I'd still be wasting nutes like I did a year ago when I was blinded by the same misconceptions you are. Click the Intellectual Honesty link in my sig... why so emotional?

What you and other high feeding stoners worrying about big buds forget is that thousands of educated people are trying every day to increase yields to prevent the human population from starving to death in the not-so-far future. Wasting nutes isn't one of them. It's been extensively tested. There is a point-of-no-return, which is much lower than you think.

"scientific stuff" yes... Science (from Latin scientia, meaning "knowledge")

remyaz0 said:

Each of us has our own method that works,

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Sure you do... that's the problem. A plant is plant.

remyaz0 said:

I see no need in your method unless you are desperate to save money.

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"your method"... Yeah, I invented the "don't waste nutes thinking you can more bud method"

You sure know how to look things up on the internet.. but you cant read very well.. I am done with this thread.. I hope you can think a little harder on what I said and maybe gain something from it. YOu seem to have read a lot on the forums and made YOUR own opinion its not scientific fact you grew a few plants and said yup this works im going to stick with it and enforce it as much as i can. I agree your method works but I don't think its as effective.. I see how much plants eat because of the meter I am not wasting nut, nor are they wasting the nutrition they eat. You have said the same thing but you demand on the fact that your way is the best. In conclusion your just an everyday internet troll or a stubborn person.

"You", "you", "you",... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

remyaz0 said:

I am done with this thread..

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You ran out of valid arguments 2 posts ago so I don't think it's a loss to the thread if you get back to the newbie section and keep parroting your forum nonsense about ppm meters showing nutrient need.

Dumbass if your so anti establishment start a compost heap and go organic.. Hydroponics needs an industry and hobbyist need to support it. Take your garbage arguement over and talk to the people who grow championship sized vegetables and fruits, that plants "cant use more than a certain amount" or "plants cant use additives". Your arguments are crap and im just biting a troll every time i reply.. Now that I know how to unwatch again, Peace.. to the OP i hope you can gleen anything from this do your own research. Sorry for doing this in thread.

remyaz0 said:

Hydroponics needs an industry and hobbyist need to support it.

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So you're wasting nutes to support the hydroponics industry? Have you ever seen an industrial size hydroponics setup? I'm not the one being anti-establishment by giving my plants the amount of nutes they need to produce a bud-to-bud field and nothing more.

Keep reflecting your labels on me.. you're one responding with personal attacks and acting like a troll. If that makes you feel better about wasting nutrients... Around the time you registered at RIU there were still a few members who knew their shit, read up what they used before they got bored arguing with emotional believers like yourself.

Sativied said:

Perhaps I should add that at the end of the week, I used just as much nutrients as some people running 2-3x my ppm. Instead of dumping it all in the rez at the start of the week, I spread it out, add a little every two days or so.

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Oh and "dumbass", you still get a notification when someone quotes you.