Please help identify why plants stress

coreywebster said:

I just found your other thread with more info. Now don't take my word on it because I don't use co2 or a sealed room, so take what I say with a pinch of salt.
Could be too much, there are a few threads about which say 1500ppm is a waste or too much, those measurements are usually used in full flower. It seems its common to turn it off during lights out too. I have no idea how to go about this.
My best guess would be its too high ppm for such small plants, this is based on looking at other threads, I cant link them because they are from other sites. I came across one thread which a guy was trying to prove that 1500 was wasteful and that above that it can damage the plants, he was saying above 2000 it can kill them. The one picture I found on that thread showed a plant in a further state of decay than yours but it did have similarities.
The thread I came across was called " don't use 1500ppm"
There is another thread which contradicts this by Dr Who, now that maybe the same doctor who that is on here so maybe worth shouting him out. If it is he seems to have written a great deal on co2 and would be a good source of info.
Like I say, not a user of co2 so don't take advice off me but use it to do more research. Goggle co2 lights off and best ppm for small plants.

@Dr. Who Is that you who wrote the article on co2? You may tell me to keep my mouth shut on things I don't have experience with, that's fair enough, but if it helps the OP solve the problem...

good luck finding the source of your problem ligrow

Edit, since they use oxygen in the night period maybe that is causing or contributing to the problem. sorry I cant give a definite answer. At least it gives you a few things to research

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ligrow said:

Good day guys,
Just got my new setup ready last night.
First time running mini spilt with co2 in sealed room.
Im using one 400 watt and a 600 watt MH veg right now.
One night after plants stress like this.
Any feedback would be appreciate
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Dr. Who said:

LOL, I get around.

1: NO GASSING IN VEG! = WASTE of money!
2: While if you push it with heavy lighting - 1500ppm is effective. (I like running at 1200 - 1300! The rate of effect by the CO2 drops off at a very fast rate and to make 1500ppm really effective you MUST have a base LUX lighting rate of 80,400 LUX)
3: Over 1500ppm is not effective enough to waste your money on (short answer)



Your plant looks like it has a cpl of micro nute defs.
Add a good Kelp extract to your solution!
I like Age Old Kelp and Maxicrop Seaweed in that order, for my use.

Be sure you monitor your pH to 5.8 to 6.2.
Adjust to 5.8 and let it rise to 6.1 - 6.2 and adjust back down to 5.8 and repeat.

Do you know that when gassing at your level. You MUST have the RH at around 80% and the temps in the low 90's ???
If your not there - The gassing is not helping at all!
Did you know that turning DOWN the lighting intensity is making the gassing NOT effective?

You have a cumulative watt value of 1K - a 600 and a 400 right? Your using both? Attempting to gas at your level requires at LEAST the 600 at 100% to be at all effective! I don't gas with less then a 1K - ever!

Drop the gassing till bloom! Gassing in veg IS NOT COST to RETURN EFFECTIVE! (your wasting money)

Gas being high at night does not hurt the plant - The plant just won't "use" it at night! For CO2 to BE used by the plant, it must be photosynthisizing .

Sealed room and plant not using the gas is why it remains high.

You mention a "controller". WHAT controller?

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ligrow said:

Good day @Dr. Who thanks for your feedback

1: NO GASSING IN VEG! = WASTE of money!
- I thought co2 in veg help plants grow faster? correct me if Im wrong...

2: While if you push it with heavy lighting - 1500ppm is effective. (I like running at 1200 - 1300! The rate of effect by the CO2 drops off at a very fast rate and to make 1500ppm really effective you MUST have a base LUX lighting rate of 80,400 LUX)
- I just picked up lux meter a week ago. the rate show on the meter is different than you mentioned here. I will post pic of the meter display later today.

3: Over 1500ppm is not effective enough to waste your money on (short answer)
- got it man! i was aim 1500ppm. when burner shut off ppm still raise to 1800ppm.

Your plant looks like it has a cpl of micro nute defs.
Add a good Kelp extract to your solution!
I like Age Old Kelp and Maxicrop Seaweed in that order, for my use.
- I was think if b-52 could help? I dont know why they have def. same nutes just higher EC.
They were in DWC with 0.6 EC maxigro, and some cal-mag, hydroguard. same formula just higher EC.

Be sure you monitor your pH to 5.8 to 6.2.
Adjust to 5.8 and let it rise to 6.1 - 6.2 and adjust back down to 5.8 and repeat.
-Yes I sure keep ph at that range, but they raise pretty quick.(5.8 to 6.1 in one night)
I set EC 1.1 when I transplant. It raise to 1.25 in three days. so I cut EC to 0.95 last night.

Do you know that when gassing at your level. You MUST have the RH at around 80% and the temps in the low 90's ???
- Oh I didnt know that...RH when lights off RH get to high 70%, but when HID kick on RH down to mid 40%.
I know temp need to be higher. At least 80F is what I know. Didnt know need to be high like that. so whats the temp and RH range you would maintain in your grow room for Veg and Flowering stage?

If your not there - The gassing is not helping at all!
- I will have it there in anyway. I build this setup is for running co2. I will have all the problem fix. It would be awesome if you can have feedback on adjust my setup. First time adding co2. Have done vent grow, but no experience with co2 at all.

Did you know that turning DOWN the lighting intensity is making the gassing NOT effective?
- Yes I know. They were on 100% and 400+600 is just for temporary. This setup will be three 6pcs COB panel. Maybe 2 panels with one 600watt HID for heat up the tent?

You have a cumulative watt value of 1K - a 600 and a 400 right? Your using both? Attempting to gas at your level requires at LEAST the 600 at 100% to be at all effective! I don't gas with less then a 1K - ever!
Yes its totally 1K right now. sure I wont use 400watt when adding co2. hopefully COB panel will arrived in the end of this week.
If you say temp should be low 90's Im worried about if LED panel its gonna bring up the temp to idea range for co2 environment.

Drop the gassing till bloom! Gassing in veg IS NOT COST to RETURN EFFECTIVE! (your wasting money)
- got it. so are you saying Gassing in Veg doesnt help no need to run burner in veg in any cases?

Gas being high at night does not hurt the plant - The plant just won't "use" it at night! For CO2 to BE used by the plant, it must be photosynthisizing .

Sealed room and plant not using the gas is why it remains high.
- without intake exhaust in the room with mini split on 24/7. If not adding co2, no air exchange would be ok? not sure this part.
I read info @coreywebster point out. I still can not sure if air exchange in the room is necessary

You mention a "controller". WHAT controller?
Its autopilot green house master controller.

Appreciate for all you guys help here.
have a nice day

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Dr. Who said:

Ok, here we go - lol

1: No your not "wrong" BUT, in veg the amount of growth increase to profitable yield - is not worth the cost of running the equipment TO make the gas, control the heat and RH.
In bloom - You're increasing growth rates that affect the speed of growth and the size of the yield (bud size). THIS increases profit!

2: I suspect that the meter adjusts between several values of measurement? The higher LUX might be a dbled value. Read the instructions carefully!

3: The rise in ppm is due, partly, to the height of the meter vs. the height of the generator! It shuts off and the gas suspended high in the room settles. Co2 is heavier then air..

4: OH YEAH! They show a def in at least 2 micro's S and Ir! One work's on the other a bit.....Use the Kelp and don't worry about ppm or EC value changes from it! It's NOT a macro nute (NPK) so you'r not going to effect growth on that scale.

5: Sounds about right - got that covered!

6: Vegging with NO gas = around 70-75F and 40-45% RH ,, BLOOM WITH GAS is 89-92F and 80 - 85% RH and you MUST have these levels when LIGHTS are ON! When lights are off - Cycle exhaust to lower the night time temps to 75-80F and no higher then 50% RH......If the co2 level stay's high - no biggie, as that will actually help prevent PM.

The rest are "great" !

Good meter!

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ligrow said:

1: No your not "wrong" BUT, in veg the amount of growth increase to profitable yield - is not worth the cost of running the equipment TO make the gas, control the heat and RH.
In bloom - You're increasing growth rates that affect the speed of growth and the size of the yield (bud size). THIS increases profit!
- got it man
2: I suspect that the meter adjusts between several values of measurement? The higher LUX might be a dbled value. Read the instructions carefully!
- I got a cheap one with no instruction lol...
3: The rise in ppm is due, partly, to the height of the meter vs. the height of the generator! It shuts off and the gas suspended high in the room settles. Co2 is heavier then air..

4: OH YEAH! They show a def in at least 2 micro's S and Ir! One work's on the other a bit.....Use the Kelp and don't worry about ppm or EC value changes from it! It's NOT a macro nute (NPK) so you'r not going to effect growth on that scale.
I wonder how to use Kelp in hydro? I see Maxcrop seaweed is liquid one probably its easier to add in res. Now Im thinking add some maxicrop seaweed and B-52 to help plants get rid of stress...but anything I order need two week to get here...so I wonder if there is anything I can do to prevent plants get worst( actually they are...)
5: Sounds about right - got that covered!

6: Vegging with NO gas = around 70-75F and 40-45% RH ,, BLOOM WITH GAS is 89-92F and 80 - 85% RH and you MUST have these levels when LIGHTS are ON! When lights are off - Cycle exhaust to lower the night time temps to 75-80F and no higher then 50% RH......If the co2 level stay's high - no biggie, as that will actually help prevent PM.
- WOW when in bloom need to be that high in lights on!? also that high in RH?? I thought in bloom low RH always better, and veg need higher RH...Oh man whole thing is different than what I imagine...

Appreciate your time read and share your experienced.
cheers

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Dr. Who said:

That is all a your welcome thing Bro!

yup! high temps and high RH are REQUIRED to make the high co2ppm actually work!

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ligrow said:

They were in DWC. Root was good. I seldom have root white like that in summer if not using chiller.
but I moved them out the the tent for three days. They were not getting lights and not pump for air for three days.
but when I transplant to ebb system. Im sure they were healthy.
When you mentioned they arent used to the environment.Im thinking maybe its big swing of RH cause this problem.
my controller read 40% lowest and 77% highest. those clones were growing in vent tent. Im in high RH area. so they were getting 65-80% most of time.

As I mentioned above. this is my first time runing sealed environment with co2 burning. controller set 1200ppm. dead band 50ppm.
When burner shut off. ppm still raise few hundred. maybe too high ppm those small plants?

appreciate for your feedback.
have a nice weekend

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slyone said:

I put seaweed in with most feeds when in veg, the girls seem to like it... Good for rooting...

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ligrow said:

They were in DWC. Root was good. I seldom have root white like that in summer if not using chiller.
but I moved them out the the tent for three days. They were not getting lights and not pump for air for three days.
but when I transplant to ebb system. Im sure they were healthy.
When you mentioned they arent used to the environment.Im thinking maybe its big swing of RH cause this problem.
my controller read 40% lowest and 77% highest. those clones were growing in vent tent. Im in high RH area. so they were getting 65-80% most of time.

As I mentioned above. this is my first time runing sealed environment with co2 burning. controller set 1200ppm. dead band 50ppm.
When burner shut off. ppm still raise few hundred. maybe too high ppm those small plants?

appreciate for your feedback.
have a nice weekend

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Steve Man said:

Holy cow you wonder why they are stressed just re read this. 3 days without light or air is a big shock to any plant. 1200 ppm? thats like lateeee flower ppm range. (Ive never ran co2 so i could be wrong) i believe these 3 reasons are more than likely why they are stressed as much as they are/were. Easy recovery tho

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ligrow said:

Luckily Grow More Seaweed Extract arrived today
Dont need to wait two weeks shipping from US anymore...

I had add some Chelated Iron that I use for Aquapoinc two days ago.
But plants dont look like they are recover for me.
I read the bottle for hydro use recommend 5ml/ Gal
When use other nutes I start with 1/3 or 1/2
I wonder how much Seaweed or Kelp product you use when in Hydro?

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Dr. Who said:

5ml per gallon.

Plants do not "show" a correction for 3-5 days in hydro. You will see any change in the new growth!
ONLY N problems will actually show "repair" to leaves. All other problems you will only see any "correction" in new growth.

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ligrow said:

@Dr. Who appreciate your quick feedback!
I will add it to my res. tonite. Hope they get will soon~

I also want to make in 6" exhaust for the room. As I dont running Co2 at least till plants recover.
I worried about no air change in Mini spilt room could cause problem.
Thinking running the fan 15mins every 2 hours. Want do you think?
Hopefully I dont use room exhuast when adding co2 untill end of two weeks.
(Cut co2 a hour before light off. co2 on 15 mins after lights on)
When I cut co2 I have room exhaust fan back on like I mention above.
Do you think this would help?

This really make me headache man...
I should have room the same setup for at least one run with vent grow, then adding co2.
some info that I learned before seems its not what it is.
Like the high temp and RH required in flowering stage really surprised me.
I though only slightly higher for temp. and RH is same as vent grow.
Isnt RH that high in flowering stage put buds in risk of getting mold?

I planed on having three Cob panel. 6 cobs each.
If temp need to be in low 90s. I might have problem heat up the tent.
Also might need some unit to bring RH up high.

Again thanks for the feedback.
have a great day

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ligrow said:

@Alienwidow thanks for stopping by.
Good to heard that.
Hope I can have the problem fix soon.

Good thing is I found growmore seaweed extract in local shop, which means I dont spend two times of its price to ship it all the way here.
Still wonder if B-52 made by Advance nutes is similar product like that? if yes I dont spend money on B-52..

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SamsonsRiddle said:

b52 is not needed in this situation, you'd be better of using supethrive (please don't) which provides kelp. Just go with what the Dr. prescribed and don't waste any money on AN.

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