Please help

Ok so we're on day 61 of my OG Kush photoperiod .
Since my last post , Lighting has been increased to 55%. I've applied LST to the main stem, HST to the top Cola , I've cut of to lower middle colas that were not getting enough space or light. And now have flushed the plant twice this last week. With distilled pHed H2O.
Soil mix of Fox Farms Ocean Forest/ Happy Frog 50/50. Three weeks ago I made the mistake of adding grow big liquid fertilizer. High in nitrogen. Ended up with nitrogen toxicity . I'm seeing lighter green/ yellow formations now . I just did thee second flush with 4gl of water. And tips or advice . Can anyone confirm if this is indeed nute lockout/N toxicity. Any advice is appreciated.and questions are welcome .

Are these pictures before or after you pruned?
What's the light setup? I don't know what 55% means.
Every strain is different, but this looks to me like the light is too close to the canopy. If you can't let them stretch vertically due to light penetration issues, find a way to lst them and spread the canopy out like a lazy scrog/manifold.
Ocean Forest soil here also, haven't given anything except water and a little silica supplement.
Just trying to help.
Here's what I do, day 30'ish after 1st stage manifold:

2WorldsFrog said:

Are these pictures before or after you pruned?
What's the light setup? I don't know what 55% means.
Every strain is different, but this looks to me like the light is too close to the canopy. If you can't let them stretch vertically due to light penetration issues, find a way to lst them and spread the canopy out like a lazy scrog/manifold.
Ocean Forest soil here also, haven't given anything except water and a little silica supplement.
Just trying to help.
Here's what I do, day 30'ish after 1st stage manifold:

Click to expand...

Well for my light I have a Vivosun Areolight 100w LED. 18in from canopy. And I meant to say 55% intensity/power. I'm going to raise the lights up a bit.

2WorldsFrog said:

Are these pictures before or after you pruned?
What's the light setup? I don't know what 55% means.
Every strain is different, but this looks to me like the light is too close to the canopy. If you can't let them stretch vertically due to light penetration issues, find a way to lst them and spread the canopy out like a lazy scrog/manifold.
Ocean Forest soil here also, haven't given anything except water and a little silica supplement.
Just trying to help.
Here's what I do, day 30'ish after 1st stage manifold:

Click to expand...

Oh and the pics are after prune . I could probably prune more however .

So I just applied more LST where I could and raised the lights up.

I hope that someone who knows more gets on this, but I would say that at 61 days that plant is ready for some light intensity. I've got a 315watt cmh 18" away and the girl is loving it. She's reaching for it too! That pic is my newest mom from seed, Strawberry Blonde. Did a single outdoor last year and really enjoyed the grow. Kind of sensitive to nutes, but excellent finish.

Nutes can be a tricky thing. Less is more, until you know what it wants. In the veg stage I've had a lot of success with Happy Frog dry top dress amendments. Once a month with the green bag of Veg stuff does the trick. I'm sure there's better out there, I like what I like.

Water quality has, by far, been my biggest issue when growing. The ph has to be right for the plant to eat right. I always get purified water and let it sit for a day to evaporate any chlorine before supplement and ph to feed the plant.

I think you're going to be alright though.
I've had a few plants do that real short and bushy thing before, give it time.

2WorldsFrog said:

I hope that someone who knows more gets on this, but I would say that at 61 days that plant is ready for some light intensity. I've got a 315watt cmh 18" away and the girl is loving it. She's reaching for it too! That pic is my newest mom from seed, Strawberry Blonde. Did a single outdoor last year and really enjoyed the grow. Kind of sensitive to nutes, but excellent finish.

Nutes can be a tricky thing. Less is more, until you know what it wants. In the veg stage I've had a lot of success with Happy Frog dry top dress amendments. Once a month with the green bag of Veg stuff does the trick. I'm sure there's better out there, I like what I like.

Water quality has, by far, been my biggest issue when growing. The ph has to be right for the plant to eat right. I always get purified water and let it sit for a day to evaporate any chlorine before supplement and ph to feed the plant.

I think you're going to be alright though.
I've had a few plants do that real short and bushy thing before, give it time.

Click to expand...

Thanks, this is my first plant so it was a hard judgment to make . I've got the intensity at 63 percent .but have the lights at 21 inches in distance . Maybe this will encourage some vertical growth

Congrats on your first!
It gets easier.
Trust your instincts, it's one of the best ways to learn this stuff.

GemGrows24 said:

Thanks, this is my first plant so it was a hard judgment to make . I've got the intensity at 63 percent .but have the lights at 21 inches in distance . Maybe this will encourage some vertical growth

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This is very interesting. Your plant is doing very, very well considering the fact that it's getting so little light.

That 100 watt light at 55% power at 18" is seedling level and yet you've got a plant that, though small, has quite a bit of foliage.

This graphic is from the manufacturer's website and, at 55% and 18", you're getting 300µmol directly under the light and that drops to 250± just a few inches off center. My typical grow hits 300µmol by day 14 and, by day 61, is averaging about 1000µmol.



The main reason why your plant is short is because the light you're using is designed to keep plants short. The manufacturer calls it an "optimized" spectrum but it's very heavy in blue photons, as are many lights designed for small grow spaces. Blue photons inhibit cell expansion and that's great for small tents because small tents tend to be short so the blue light helps make sure that the plants don't grow up to the top of the tent.

From the pictures, your plant looks quite healthy. It's got lots of leaves and the color, while being a bit light green, seems to be a uniform color and I don't see any evidence of nutrient imbalances or tip burn.

At this point, I would increase the dimmer to 100%. That will get you to 538µmol which is slightly below where plants should be by about day 30. You can do that in a couple of days. With cannabis, there's no need to gradually increase light levels. I would increase the dimmer to 80%, check on the plants in 30 minutes and see how they're reacting. What you're looking for is to see if the leaves canoe/taco or if they rotate around the petiole, similar to how a Venetian blind opens and closes.

After your first check at 30 minutes, check back again in another 30 minutes. If there is photo avoidance, drop to, say, 70%. I can't imagine that there would be any issues—the plant is 60+ days old so it's been a month since it was sufficiently mature to hand 500µmol.

The next bump would be to 100% and it's the same process—increase PPFD, watch for a reaction. Assuming it goes well, drop the hang height from 18" to 16" and then down to 12". You should be able to accomplish that in a few days.

By increasing the light on your plant, it will be able to grow better. Light is the only way that plants can generate food so the sooner you get more light on your plant, the better it will grow.

GemGrows24 said:

I've applied LST to the main stem, HST to the top Cola , I've cut of to lower middle colas that were not getting enough space or light.

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LST, yeah ok, good. HST, NOPE, not good. Not for a plant that's already struggling. I would have left on all growth, even the shit that's not getting "enough" light. It's still getting something and can add to the overall photosynthesis. This plant needs every single solar panel it can make right now. The HST and pruning, I feel, set her back.

GemGrows24 said:

And now have flushed the plant twice this last week. With distilled pHed H2O.
Soil mix of Fox Farms Ocean Forest/ Happy Frog 50/50.

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Flushed? Not cool in organics! You washed out soluble nutrients that help balance the pH and nutritional supply to the plants. Also there is absolutely no reason to adjust distilled H20 in organics, especially if you planed to give "plain water".

GemGrows24 said:

Three weeks ago I made the mistake of adding grow big liquid fertilizer. High in nitrogen. Ended up with nitrogen toxicity . I'm seeing lighter green/ yellow formations now . I just did thee second flush with 4gl of water. And tips or advice .

Click to expand...

Stop fertilizing. FFOF is fortified and will last a month with just plain 0ppm water. This depends on growth rates and some plants are heavy feeders and others are not. Eitherway, the plant will show you when it needs to be fed. Especially when it comes to Nitrogen, wait for the lowest fan leaves to start to yellow a bit, then a mild- medium strength "grow" nutrient would be appropriate. Also by that time it would be safe to assume that the majority of your FFOF nutrient charge has been depleted.

GemGrows24 said:

Can anyone confirm if this is indeed nute lockout/N toxicity.

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By now, yes it is locked out. I also suspect you have pH issues that are accompanied with high sodium. Notice the gnarly fans blades, how they're bumpy and deformed? That's a transpiration issue caused by high sodium and poor pH.

If you have more seeds, I would germ a new one. Scrap this plant and start over. Also if you have more soil, I'd recommend starting with a fresh pot. This time don't mix FFOF and FFHF. Start your seed in a solo cup with happy frog. Transplant into your fabric pot of Ocean Forest. Don't pH your 0ppm water and don't fertilize for at least 1 month.

I've helped you before a couple weeks back. You may recall GreenGenez421? Well, he got banned for misogynistic hate speech... Whatever the fuck that means?!?!
But your 61 days in atm and the plant looks the size of a 30 day now with more problems than before. I'd cut my losses and start over. I would not try to get to flower with the current, you'll no doubt have compounding problems and chances are high it'll just hermi out on you.

Woedae said:

LST, yeah ok, good. HST, NOPE, not good. Not for a plant that's already struggling. I would have left on all growth, even the shit that's not getting "enough" light. It's still getting something and can add to the overall photosynthesis. This plant needs every single solar panel it can make right now. The HST and pruning, I feel, set her back.



Flushed? Not cool in organics! You washed out soluble nutrients that help balance the pH and nutritional supply to the plants. Also there is absolutely no reason to adjust distilled H20 in organics, especially if you planed to give "plain water".



Stop fertilizing. FFOF is fortified and will last a month with just plain 0ppm water. This depends on growth rates and some plants are heavy feeders and others are not. Eitherway, the plant will show you when it needs to be fed. Especially when it comes to Nitrogen, wait for the lowest fan leaves to start to yellow a bit, then a mild- medium strength "grow" nutrient would be appropriate. Also by that time it would be safe to assume that the majority of your FFOF nutrient charge has been depleted.


By now, yes it is locked out. I also suspect you have pH issues that are accompanied with high sodium. Notice the gnarly fans blades, how they're bumpy and deformed? That's a transpiration issue caused by high sodium and poor pH.

If you have more seeds, I would germ a new one. Scrap this plant and start over. Also if you have more soil, I'd recommend starting with a fresh pot. This time don't mix FFOF and FFHF. Start your seed in a solo cup with happy frog. Transplant into your fabric pot of Ocean Forest. Don't pH your 0ppm water and don't fertilize for at least 1 month.

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The water runs at 5.0 without adjusting. Are u sure and why?

Woedae said:

I've helped you before a couple weeks back. You may recall GreenGenez421? Well, he got banned for misogynistic hate speech... Whatever the fuck that means?!?!
But your 61 days in atm and the plant looks the size of a 30 day now with more problems than before. I'd cut my losses and start over. I would not try to get to flower with the current, you'll no doubt have compounding problems and chances are high it'll just hermi out on you.

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And respectfully I don't have the time r means to start a new run .means how this is my first plant I'm leaning towards keeping this one going. I'll get more seeds soon as I can but for now this is all I have .

GemGrows24 said:

The water runs at 5.0 without adjusting. Are u sure and why?

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Because it's pure and the pH your getting is false. I'm 100% positive. You may not recall but I grow in a 4x8 no-till raise bed. I only use 0ppm and I never ever pH anything

Woedae said:

Because it's pure and the pH your getting is false. I'm 100% positive. You may not recall but I grow in a 4x8 no-till raise bed. I only use 0ppm and I never ever pH anything

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I imagine this is because the soils organics naturally adjust pH?

GemGrows24 said:

I imagine this is because the soils organics naturally adjust pH?

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Correct, as does the plants roots based on what elements it's taking up

Woedae said:

Correct, as does the plants roots based on what elements it's taking up

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Thankyou ! U really think I won't be able to at least a couple good ounces it I make these changes now?. It sucks to hear someone say start over .

GemGrows24 said:

Thankyou ! U really think I won't be able to at least a couple good ounces it I make these changes now?. It sucks to hear someone say start over .

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Your very welcome, I just want to see you successful. I'm quick to cull plants so that's just what I would do. But it is possible to get to harvest even with a troubled beginning. The plant can still bounce back but it's gonna take some time and with all the flushing and what not you've done so far, I question the soils ability to be water only moving forward. Just trying to KIS and allow you to build confidence. Starting with a new bean and fresh soil would do just that.

Woedae said:

Your very welcome, I just want to see you successful. I'm quick to cull plants so that's just what I would do. But it is possible to get to harvest even with a troubled beginning. The plant can still bounce back but it's gonna take some time and with all the flushing and what not you've done so far, I question the soils ability to be water only moving forward. Just trying to KIS and allow you to build confidence. Starting with a new bean and fresh soil would do just that.

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Thanks I definitely appreciate the feedback back. I've been wanting to start fresh beans . But low on magic bean money at the moment hahaa. But I definitely see your point. I'm going to be dropping a bunch of seeds next run .just so I can avoid any issues .

GemGrows24 said:

Thanks I definitely appreciate the feedback back. I've been wanting to start fresh beans . But low on magic bean money at the moment hahaa. But I definitely see your point. I'm going to be dropping a bunch of seeds next run .just so I can avoid any issues .

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So moving forward, when the plant does respond with growth, don't start throwing fertilizer at her in hopes of expediting anything. Allow her to do her thing, practice good watering habits and maintain a good environment. She will show you when she needs more nutrient and keep all nutrient solution to a low ppm. Only increase it if she looks like she needs it. You'd be surprised at how effective low dose can be, especially in a peat based soil.