Poland willing to give Ukraine Mig 29s

CunningCanuk said:

That wasn’t my intention, I thought we were having a discussion.

I’ve been wrong about everything else in this entire situation so I’m probably wrong in believing Zelenskyy is the most significant European leader in last 80 years.

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Joe Biden cut his teeth on the cold war, he knows the rules and he knows how to play the "game", they will figure something out I'm sure. America just jumped in with both feet and there are traffic jams at the airports in eastern Poland as the transports land and disgorge modern weapons. Millions of Soviet small arms are being shipped in from Europe by road and railways still work in most of Ukraine. A significant portion of the tractor trailers in the EU are delivering thousands of tons of shit deep into Ukraine near the fighting, driven by volunteers. A monumental logistic effort is underway along with training and organization while useless mouths are being evacuated. It will be weeks before the land dries out enough for military maneuver and Armageddon to begin.

My post was my reaction to his international diplomacy.
I indented to convey that making demands as he appeared to do was emotional and not in a productive way.
The flip side in my opinion to what he said was that he seemed to project responsibility onto his allies. It is not the allies responsibilities.

So in my mind the MIGs are not a done deal until they are in Ukraine.
I hope it happens but as international embarrassment goes the allies can delay until this has faded from front and center then quietly withdraw the offer thus saving face.
We just have to wait and see.
One thing is for sure we are all watching now.

CunningCanuk said:

That wasn’t my intention, I thought we were having a discussion.

I’ve been wrong about everything else in this entire situation so I’m probably wrong in believing Zelenskyy is the most significant European leader in last 80 years.

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Oh I am on Team Zelenskyy.

I am reminded of a favorite movie of mine "The Edge of Tomorrow."
Sgt. Ferell says

Master Sergeant Farell: Battle is the Great Redeemer. It is the Fiery Crucible in which true heroes are forged. The one place where all men truly share the same rank, regardless of what kind of parasitic scum they were going in.

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I know I'm safe and comfortable in my chair behind my computer screen and that for Zelenskyy this is his Fiery Crucible.
I am not man enough to fill his shoes when all is said and done..

Friendly_Grower said:

My post was my reaction to his international diplomacy.
I indented to convey that making demands as he appeared to do was emotional and not in a productive way.
The flip side in my opinion to what he said was that he seemed to project responsibility onto his allies. It is not the allies responsibilities.

So in my mind the MIGs are not a done deal until they are in Ukraine.
I hope it happens but as international embarrassment goes the allies can delay until this has faded from front and center then quietly withdraw the offer thus saving face.
We just have to wait and see.
One thing is for sure we are all watching now.

Click to expand...

Agreements meant to protect Ukrainian independence have been broken and war crimes are being committed against his people. While he may be getting help, I understand if he feels he and his people are fighting this battle alone.

He may be a shitty diplomat but he is one hell of a wartime leader and I’m sure his people are happy he is willing to ruffle some feathers to get the protection they need.

Friendly_Grower said:

Oh I am on Team Zelenskyy.

I am reminded of a favorite movie of mine "The Edge of Tomorrow."
Sgt. Ferell says


I know I'm safe and comfortable in my chair behind my computer screen and that for Zelenskyy this is his Fiery Crucible.
I am not man enough to fill his shoes when all is said and done..

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Yeah. It’s easier for us to play the long game in the comfort of our home, on the other side of the world.

CunningCanuk said:

That wasn’t my intention, I thought we were having a discussion.

I’ve been wrong about everything else in this entire situation so I’m probably wrong in believing Zelenskyy is the most significant European leader in last 80 years.

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That timeframe allows for some very heavy hitters, notably Hitler, Stalin and Churchill. Make it 67 years; that way these Titans for good or ill aren’t skewing the stage.

CunningCanuk said:

Agreements meant to protect Ukrainian independence have been broken and war crimes are being committed against his people. While he may be getting help, I understand if he feels he and his people are fighting this battle alone.

He may be a shitty diplomat but he is one hell of a wartime leader and I’m sure his people are happy he is willing to ruffle some feathers to get the protection they need.

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I wouldn't say shitty at all.
It just didn't play well from my computer chair to me.

Hey have you watched the history of Russia Video I posted, It covers a lot in a short time.
Personally I believe the borders as they were when Ukraine became independent are the true borders of today.

Also there is no doubt that Putin is evil man.

cannabineer said:

That timeframe allows for some very heavy hitters, notably Hitler, Stalin and Churchill. Make it 67 years; that way these Titans for good or ill aren’t skewing the stage.

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Agreed. I got lazy but meant to imply since the end of WWII.

Friendly_Grower said:

I wouldn't say shitty at all.
It just didn't play well from my computer chair to me.

Hey have you watched the history of Russia Video I posted, It covers a lot in a short time.
Personally I believe the boarders as there were when Ukraine became independent are to true boarders of today.

Also there is no doubt that Putin is evil man.

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I plan on checking it out later

Friendly_Grower said:

Putin is evil man.

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That's putting it lightly, Putin is also a fascist as well

BudmanTX said:

That's Putin it lightly.

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heehee

It looks like the MIG deal is off the table for sure.

The History of the deal is that Poland initially offered the MIGs without working things out with everyone else.
Poland suggested the USA would "Back-Fill" with USA aircraft.

However, it became of Hot Potato on who would risk actually delivering the MIGs with Poland tossing the Hot Potato to Germany. Germany tossing Potato to USA.
Germany said NO! The USA took longer but gave a reasoned evaluation that more MIGs at this time was less a benefit than more Anti-Aircraft misses and such.

So if the USA is to be believed the risk of triggering Russia buy providing MIGs is the real hang up.

As to the No Fly Zone. It's too late. If they had done so before Russia set up anti-aircraft batteries inside Ukraine they could have but no one believed Russia would actually invade.
To establish a NFZ now NATO would have to take out those installations. That would be an overt act on Russia and possibly WWIII

In other news Putin sent a Children's hospital an exciting gift. He Bombed them leaving children under rubble.