Possible nitrogen toxicity problems with seedlings please help!

Hey guys,
Im a first time grower, that has got a problem with his 3 seedlings.
Ive done plenty of research on the symptoms and im still unsure as too what is goin on with my plants.
So ive thought next best thing would be to sign up to a few forum sites to get peoples advice, before things get too bad.

Seeds germinated in soil 12/12. All 3 popped up within a few days.
So the seedlings are approx 3-4 weeks old.
Grown in Daltons Premium Soil (No NPK values sorry). Seedlings Grew Very well in this medium though.

They are OUTDOOR grown.
They were Transplanted from smaller pots to bigger ones on 4/1.
Transplant went pretty well they caught on over next 2-3 days and began looking healthy again.
They have only been watered via Rain Water over the following days as its been crappy weather here,

But then 2 days ago..

Okay so my my bianca and one of my straw ice plants started showing symptoms of what i though was Nitrogen Toxicity because it was getting these symptoms

• "leaf claw"
  
• "canoe-like curved shaped leafs"
• "overall droopiness"
• Random nutrient burn marks on tips and really bad on one particular leaf in pic 2.

Now the rookie mistake i made is that when i prepped the new soil, i added fertilizer with a NPK value of 12 - 3 - 7.2 but i only gave 1/4 recommended dosage to it. So im thinking that the new soil is way too 'HOT' for the seedlings and its just giving it nutrient overload or toxicity.

So i think i need to flush the soil but am not sure as too how to do it properly.

The bianca seedling is getting hit hardest and the straw ice is doin okay but displaying the same symptoms so i would like to prevent any more damage if possible

Bianca seedling pics






Straw ice seedling pics




Any help would be greatly appreciated, i hope ive provided enough pictures and info. No doubt a few of yous will know the problem straight away.

But im pretty certain its nitro toxicicity.

Cheers Guys

ur nute burn is all most non existent.....i dont see anything wrong other then a little droopy which my first guess was transplant shock , soil might be a little hot flushing is just feeding only water for however long.... those marks arent that bad give just water and keep an eye on her for new symptoms or her to perk up

Sleep easy. I concur that most of what we're seeing can probably be chalked up to transplant shock. That can be hard on the root system, and it can take a few days for a young plant with a baby root system to recover and regrow the roots to the point where they can handle even relatively strong nutes. If that's what's happening, you don't want to overwater during this period, because if the roots can't pull the water out of the soil they can drown and rot. Water moderately when the soil is becoming dry-ish for a few days, probably not every day, just every couple or so.

Depending on the drainage characteristics of your soil, if it looks as though the roots are handling the watering regimen, and you're feeling ballsy, you might want to consider doubling down and watering enough to saturate the soil and produce runoff to help flush out the extra nutes. It doesn't look to me as though that's a serious problem, but it might be one that is worth fixing. Although if you do get around to trying that tactic, by the time you get to that point I would bet your problem will be solved anyway.

If you do lean in that direction, I would advise asking others to backcheck my suggestion first, because I tend to be overly bold sometimes and I don't want to lead you down the wrong path. Cooler, more patient heads may have better advice.

What are your temps and relative humidity, and what lights are you using? That will all factor into how fast your plant aspirates water.

Skunk Baxter said:

Sleep easy. I concur that most of what we're seeing can probably be chalked up to transplant shock. That can be hard on the root system, and it can take a few days for a young plant with a baby root system to recover and regrow the roots to the point where they can handle even relatively strong nutes. If that's what's happening, you don't want to overwater during this period, because if the roots can't pull the water out of the soil they can drown and rot. Water moderately when the soil is becoming dry-ish for a few days, probably not every day, just every couple or so.

Depending on the drainage characteristics of your soil, if it looks as though the roots are handling the watering regimen, and you're feeling ballsy, you might want to consider doubling down and watering enough to saturate the soil and produce runoff to help flush out the extra nutes. It doesn't look to me as though that's a serious problem, but it might be one that is worth fixing. If you do lean in that direction, I would advise asking others to backcheck my suggestion first, because I tend to be overly bold sometimes and I don't want to lead you down the wrong path. Cooler, more patient heads may have better advice.

What are your temps and relative humidity, and what lights are you using? That will all factor into how fast your plant aspirates water.

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agreed dont over water i go by my pot weight ... just cus the top of ur soil is dry doesnt mean u need water let ur pots get super light before watering them. its much easier to correct underwatering then overwatering ...underwatering can be solved in a couple hours tops overwatering can give u mass problems for a week

Yes, definitely - and especially with young plants. Older, larger plants with lots of leaf surface and root systems can guzzle it down like a sailor on Saturday night, but younger plants can take days for the growing medium to dry out. And you can easily lose a young plant by that time. You can always put a little more water in in about 15 seconds, but it's pretty goddamned hard to take it back out.

One trick that works is to put a fairly strong fan on the top of your growing medium; not only does it strengthen the stalk, but it can suck a lot of moisture out of the soil or coco or rockwool or whatever.

im fighting with 3 babies right now that are having sum root issues. i ran out of my favorite soil and my local shop didnt have any in stock being as tho its winter here,,,, was stuck in 12 oz styrofoam cups for 2 weeks, i finally got some in and transplanted but im still suppppperrrr droopy ... also my plants arent sweating yet leaves appear swollen with water weight ... its ugly but im that good im confident they will be salvaged lol

daloudpack said:

im fighting with 3 babies right now that are having sum root issues. i ran out of my favorite soil and my local shop didnt have any in stock being as tho its winter here,,,, was stuck in 12 oz styrofoam cups for 2 weeks, i finally got some in and transplanted but im still suppppperrrr droopy ... also my plants arent sweating yet leaves appear swollen with water weight ... its ugly but im that good im confident they will be salvaged lol

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Good for you. I like that attitude, bro. We had a major crisis in one of our grows a few months ago, and the plants were in very bad shape for almost an entire day before I got them under control. I told my wife that night, "I didn't want to stress you out at the time, and I don't mean to be immodest, but the fact is most growers would have lost most or even all the grow today. It took everything I had to save them. This was a very close call." She said, "why didn't you say something?" I said "because there was no need to worry you. I knew for an absolute fact that one way or another, I was going to find a way to save those plants. There was never any doubt in my mind; I was simply not going to let them die, period."

Sometimes you just gottta trust yourself to know that somehow, some way, your're going to find an answer. Like jumping out of a plane without a parachute - you just know that somehow, you're going to find one on the way down.

Hey guys thanks for the responses! Much appreciated!

ur nute burn is all most non existent.....i dont see anything wrong other then a little droopy which my first guess was transplant shock , soil might be a little hot flushing is just feeding only water for however long.... those marks arent that bad give just water and keep an eye on her for new symptoms or her to perk up

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Cheers, i hoping that no nute burn existence is the case!
Okay so ive gotten home from work today and checked out my babies. It looks like that big 'burn-like' mark on my bianca hasn't gotten any bigger, if anything maybe just changed to a lighter "drier" color. Considering it hasn't spread i should think that's good? Check out pic 1.

I haven't watered her for two days now and im thinking i might hold off for a day or two more since its better to leave them under watered then over watered and atleast i can rule that problem out by doing this. While also giving the roots time to get oxygen and hopefully not promote no root rot as skunk baxter was referring too. What do you guys think?

But in the second pic i am noticing leaf color discoloration stemming from the veins out, is that Lack of? or is that just it regaining its proper color?




Next few pics just show the root , does that look okay?



The bottom cotyledons looked quite abit browner now than yesterday, does that mean anything?



I thought i would show u a side view of my babies just because to me this shot makes me happy and look like they are gemming quite well and are lively? My opinion though haha

What u guys reckon?

Also as u can tell the one on the left is the really stunted one.



Now i have one last question please guys, these plants were at their 3-4th node at transplant time. But i don't think any have grown any more nodes. They have defently got taller and heaps of little branches are forming on all node levels.
If anything their current growing node leafs would have just become abit bigger. Is this what shock does to plants? do-sent stun vertical growth but stuns actual plant growth? its been 7 days since transplant... but to be honest i think they look like they are actually coming back to healthyness.

Thanks in advance guys. Much appreciated

whats up with them ropes? looks like little boxing rings lol.... ok so first off ur stems are def stretching u should either transplant and cover up about 3 inches of that stem or at the very least start with ur topping.... the cotyledons always die off its normal... the more i look at that one mark on your leave it looks like either a root issue u may have had , or a light burn from a bulb touching the leaf since ur growing outdoors not under lights imma guess its the first one..., ur new growth looks great so what ever the issue was looks like ur definitley coming out of it....

haha makeshift way just too stop birds from wanting too land on the sides and pluck at them. had a close call the other day lol.

ok so first off ur stems are def stretching u should either transplant and cover up about 3 inches of that stem or at the very least start with ur topping....

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how are these stretching under outdoor lighting? and what do you mean by start with your topping sorry? and they're in such big pots i dunno if im experienced enough to transplant successfully, so could i just cover up the stem with a few inches of soil?

the more i look at that one mark on your leave it looks like either a root issue u may have had , or a light burn from a bulb touching the leaf since ur growing outdoors not under lights imma guess its the first one

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This one was a weird one because bianca was the big cranking one of the three and her transplant went really smooth , so i defently think that my over fertilization of the soil didn't help her or her roots out and she took a hit.

Ill check after work tomorrow and hope that the symptoms subside abit more, might know abit more then. Ill post update pic to, if nothing gets better i may have to take quick action with those possible suggestions you were saying

Cheers daloudpack!

SamWhitwickie said:

haha makeshift way just too stop birds from wanting too land on the sides and pluck at them. had a close call the other day lol.
how are these stretching under outdoor lighting? and what do you mean by start with your topping sorry? and they're in such big pots i dunno if im experienced enough to transplant successfully, so could i just cover up the stem with a few inches of soil?



This one was a weird one because bianca was the big cranking one of the three and her transplant went really smooth , so i defently think that my over fertilization of the soil didn't help her or her roots out and she took a hit.

Ill check after work tomorrow and hope that the symptoms subside abit more, might know abit more then. Ill post update pic to, if nothing gets better i may have to take quick action with those possible suggestions you were saying

Cheers daloudpack!

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yea if theres room throw a few inches of dirt on top .... it will encourage more root growth and we all know root growth means bigger yeilds and healthier plants..... topping is when u pinch off the top new growth turning ur one top into two tops... it makes ur plant more bushy and give u more Main colas and bud sites start studying different techniques and find the one u like best.... here is a video on different suggestions https://video.search.yahoo.com/search/video;_ylt=A0LEV0.kipNWFlgAKXlXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTEybGxlNTl0BGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDQTAxOTdfMQRzZWMDc2M-?p=Topping+Fimming+Super+Cropping&fr=yset_chr_syc_oracle#id=1&vid=9ba990205579ee33d07fa86a3cdbbbd0&action=view

yeah I think I can chuck a few inches down I'll have to buy some more soil though. but thanks for the tip ill be sure to support the stem.will do that tonight or tomorrow as im pretty busy today.
Oh yes I know what topping is, I assumed that topping at seedling stage is bad. but I have topped my Bianca and 1 of my straw ice this morning before leaving for work to try stunt growth and promote lower leaf growth and stem growth. cheers daloudpack makes sense in stunting them if they aren't developing bottom leaves propely or thick stems.

I know it will shock them more but I'm hoping it will do the trick it's a shitty day today so I'll get back to u guys after work with an update.
cheers!

i top right after my first set of 5 finger leaves (usually the third node ) as it goes one finger , 3 finger , 5 finger

I just topped the plants newest growth, just above the 4th node and just below the latest node growth as that guy explains In his video u linked. would u care to tell me why u would top it after ya five finger node (3rd node for Me) rather than the newest node? does it suffer more?

cheers again daloudpack.

that would be my newest node...i ment the new growth after my first 5 finger....

Just checked them all out, they don't look too bad apart from bianca and straw ice 1 getting yellowish veins like a magnesium deficiency, the top leaves are the ones that are yellowing so if it was the case would the lower ones die first hence why they could be drooping?

Im wondering if my soils PH is flucuating because of my fertilizer i put in with the dirt and not allowing it too obtain it.
I checked with a PH meter probe and got a ph reading of 7ish on the top lower part of the soil. Im not sure if i should try stab it down any lower incase of roots?

Hopefully it may just be another transplant symptom

hey seen as it's been a few days thought I'd update ya's. my Bianca plant is doing pretty good now apart from a bit of odd coloring on the second set of leaves but nothing to big here she is


this is the smallest of my straw ices looks very healthy and doing well.

but my biggest ice has gotten real bad hook claw




I thought that I possibly over watered thembut they had minimal water feeds over past 4 days only 1. Ph levels seem good. or I wonder if it just showing some shock from the topping? or over nutrient had a good look online and at that chart but still hard to pick. I'm happy with there recovery so far though. any ideas would be great cheers.

The biggest ice with the claw... nitrogen toxicity also heat stress...(curling up on the outer edges)

the other to look pretty good tho