Pre-flowering with 24/0

ReelFiles

Well-Known Member
I know that Pre-flowering is not all that uncommon and can really help when starting from random seeds. Here is my dilemma though; I have two seven week-old plants under 4x 150W HPS. They are still under 24 hours of light and started showing ca 1-2 weeks ago. The first taller one seems like the average pre-flowering female but the other short one looks as if it actually started to bud and stopped growing. The second one was always a bit smaller but now it's about 6-8 inches smaller and has really tight internode spacing.


Size comparison between these two same age plants.


What I consider normal pre-flowering.


this is the plant I am worried about.
 

ReelFiles

Well-Known Member
And it's still forming buds, this is really strange. I heard of ruderalis based strains possibly doing this but it don't really look like that. I am confused.
 

Zylar

Active Member
More likely than not, you're just seeing multiple pheno's; especially since it's just random seed.
 

heathaa

Well-Known Member
the plant shows preflowers cuz it reached maturity. if i were you i would put it under 12/12 now. dont forget it will double maybe triple in height when you put it under 12/12
 

heathaa

Well-Known Member
can i make a suggestion? change your like cycle to like 22/2 it will give your plant root growth. root growth is induced when the plant senses its dark. it will just really help out in flower mode.
 

doobnVA

Well-Known Member
What are you worried about, exactly? both plants look fine. One is shorter than the other, no big deal. They will both double or triple their size when you put them in 12/12.
 

ReelFiles

Well-Known Member
More likely than not, you're just seeing multiple pheno's; especially since it's just random seed.
I am not sure I understand what you mean, sorry.

the plant shows preflowers cuz it reached maturity. if i were you i would put it under 12/12 now. dont forget it will double maybe triple in height when you put it under 12/12
I never heard of a plant reaching 'maturity' on 24 hours of light, is that common? I've been growing various afghani hybrids for the past 10 years and just started back up after a couple of years off, but I never saw anything like this. I don't really expect this plant to grow more than another 6 inches or so the other one I can see gaining another foot or so.

can i make a suggestion? change your like cycle to like 22/2 it will give your plant root growth. root growth is induced when the plant senses its dark. it will just really help out in flower mode.
That is definitely something I am willing to try, that's another thing I haven't heard of yet. I have to get a new timer though since my old one couldn't handle the load. (recommendations welcome). I wasn't going to flower them for another 2 weeks since my wife just had surgery and I am actually a few towns over and can only get there once or twice a week for now. I was also hoping that shorty would get a bit taller so I can harvesta bit more off it.

What are you worried about, exactly? both plants look fine. One is shorter than the other, no big deal. They will both double or triple their size when you put them in 12/12.
Well I was worried that the shorter plant isn't going to produce as much as it should have been able to. Vertical growth has basically come to a halt on that plant while the other one continues to do real well. Maybe I shouldn't have topped it, it probably would have yielded more if I had left it's natural branching, the taller one is more similar to what I am used to working with.

Thanks for all your input, I really appreciate it. I feel like I have a lot of refreshing to do and I don't have any of my grow books anymore :/
 

Zylar

Active Member
Sorry man. Plants with the same genetics can have different phenotypes, or 'growth characteristics'. Many strains have multiple phenotypes, so you can end up with tall stretchy plants and small bushy plants all from the same seeds. Phenotypes also have an effect on the final result. With some strains the tall pheno is the better producer, on other strains it's the short bushy ones. Some phenos can have a different flavor or aroma compared to another (all from the same seeds). Potency can even be affected by pheno.

So what I'm saying is it's normal. There's no way to tell which pheno is going to have the characteristics you want before you've grown them all the way to the end. The short plant might end up yielding less, but may be more potent and flavorful. The tall plant might have sparse, airy buds and the short one might have compact dense buds and actually end up being the larger yielder, but maybe have a worse taste. Noone knows until you grow 'em out.

This is also why many people keep mother plants for clones, 'cause then all the clones are of the same pheno. It's also why people recommend starting a large number of seeds and then pick and choose the seedlings.

Also, most mj plants reach maturity between 4-6 weeks from seed, regardless of lighting schedule. One of the easiest ways to tell if a plant is mature is to look at it's new leaf growth. If the new growth has 2 leaves that are directly opposite each other (almost like a Y) then it's still immature. Once it reaches maturity, the leaves will start to alternate (each node will have only 1 leaf). It's usually shortly after this that you'll start to see pre-flowers (around the 8-9th node, probably). This is when the plant has reached 'maturity' and can either be put into flower or continue to veg for a larger yield. If you continue to veg, you'll probably still see pre-flowers at every node on the main stem.

My plants have been way healthier on a 20/4 schedule than they ever were on 24/0.

I also refuse to damage my own babies. I don't top or fim, or remove any fan leaves. If I want a larger canopy, I lst. Any form of hst (high stress training; top, fim, supercrop, lollipop, etc.) is going to stress your plants, slowing growth and possibly reducing yield. In some cases it's ok, like MBlazes single fim he does, with so much veg time the small amount of stress isn't that big of an issue. But for most people (and especially if you're trying to finish asap) any stress is a bad thing.

Just my $.02, from my own experience and experimentation.

Good luck,
 

ReelFiles

Well-Known Member
Oh ok I gotcha, thanks for taking the time to explain. My cousin is supposed to give me 6 NYC Diesel clones, I definitely want to try veging them with at least some dark time, seems to be the consesus so far. The stuff I used to grow did pretty good with 24 hours of light, guess it really does depend on the strain.

I really like the bud growth pattern of the smaller plant but I am not crazy about how short it is. I started out with 6 seeds and these are the only 2 plants that were worth keeping. That's why I was hoping to get much more bud by letting them veg for 2+ months.
 

S0uthernSm0ke

Well-Known Member
yeah just let em do their thing bro.

i would turn the cycle to 18 on/ 6 off and see how they respond.. if the response is positive, let them enjoy the 18/6 for about a week and throw them into 12/12.

they look killer either way, dont be so critical ;)
 

S0uthernSm0ke

Well-Known Member
and another thing, phenotypes can be understood simply by looking at multiple sibling families.

some children are tall and express some features of the mother, while others are shorter and express some features of the father (irrespectively)

these same children (phenotypes) will also have different psychological differences while some may favor each other. It's the chaos of life that keeps this world together. Thats why this shit is so interesting. Its like opening a christmas present and seeing what characteristics your lil seeds possess.

hope this helped. thanks
 

Zylar

Active Member
Yeah, I hear ya man. I eventually broke down and ordered seeds just so I knew what I was dealing with. Bagseed (even from dank bags) is just too unpredictable for me personally. I'll grow 1 every once in a while just to see what I get, and it's kinda exciting that way. But I didn't like relying on them.

Good luck,

Edit: Great analogy SS!
 

ReelFiles

Well-Known Member
and another thing, phenotypes can be understood simply by looking at multiple sibling families.

some children are tall and express some features of the mother, while others are shorter and express some features of the father (irrespectively)

these same children (phenotypes) will also have different psychological differences while some may favor each other. It's the chaos of life that keeps this world together. Thats why this shit is so interesting. Its like opening a christmas present and seeing what characteristics your lil seeds possess.

hope this helped. thanks
Thanks for the analogy, I understood what you guys meant, but that's a good way of describing it to a noob. I really have to buy some books again, it used to help a lot.
 

ReelFiles

Well-Known Member
I guess I never got to that point before because my old closet setup was so small that I never vegged them for that long. If I remember correctly I was harvesting when the plants were about 20 inches tall. Actually I just remembered that I posted my old setup up here a while ago. Looking back at it I really don't remember ever vegging them for more than a few weeks or so.
 

ReelFiles

Well-Known Member
So what do you guys think is gonna happen if I just keep letting it veg? it's still producing buds, slowly but surely. I noticed the main stem get fatter but almost no vertical growth. I can't see it harming it in any way, just getting older.
 

simpsonsampson420

Well-Known Member
i have a blue berry under 24/0 doing the same thing..

she wants nothing more then to erupt with buds...

she's been like this for a few weeks now (waiting for a couple other girls to get a little larger before 12/12) and she is fine

she just keeps putting on new nodes (that are super super close together) and stacking on more and more pistils..

i imagine the longer you let it veg the larger the buds.. or the faster they will reach ripeness... but i cant say that for sure..

your girls are fine..

oh.. and just to correct something... roots do not need a dark period to grow.. if that was the truth how could plants grow under 24/0?? root systems will grow and be just as big and strong under 24/0 as 18/6 or 22/0..i had to pull a couple 16" to 18" tall male blue berrys... they had completely filled out the 2 gallon hydro buckets they were in with a root mass... in fact when i pulled them out of the buckets the hydroton and roots came out in the shape of the bucket... i did have pics in on computer but deleted them.. but somewhere in my journal (around pages 50 to 55 maybe.. i think.. well im just guessing) there are the pics of the roots...
 

ReelFiles

Well-Known Member
its actually starting to flower? you must have an autoflower strain......it should stay in veg if u dont switch the light
Yeah that's pretty much the impression I was under.

i have a blue berry under 24/0 doing the same thing..

she wants nothing more then to erupt with buds...

she's been like this for a few weeks now (waiting for a couple other girls to get a little larger before 12/12) and she is fine

she just keeps putting on new nodes (that are super super close together) and stacking on more and more pistils..

i imagine the longer you let it veg the larger the buds.. or the faster they will reach ripeness... but i cant say that for sure..

your girls are fine..

oh.. and just to correct something... roots do not need a dark period to grow.. if that was the truth how could plants grow under 24/0?? root systems will grow and be just as big and strong under 24/0 as 18/6 or 22/0..i had to pull a couple 16" to 18" tall male blue berrys... they had completely filled out the 2 gallon hydro buckets they were in with a root mass... in fact when i pulled them out of the buckets the hydroton and roots came out in the shape of the bucket... i did have pics in on computer but deleted them.. but somewhere in my journal (around pages 50 to 55 maybe.. i think.. well im just guessing) there are the pics of the roots...

I don't think he meant that roots wouldn't grow at all unless they got at least some dark period, but I see your point. What you are describing is exactly what is happening over here. I really like the tight internode spacing just wish the plant would grow taller.

here's some pic updates


















 

ReelFiles

Well-Known Member
Finally got my timer, bought a T103 by Intermatic, gonna install it today. I also got 6 NYC Diesel clones from my cousin but he's a dumbass so I might only get three to take root. I don't understand, I snipped 3 clones myself with a scissor, and stuck them in a glass of water and they took, nothing fancy like root hormones etc. He cuts 'em with razor blades puts rooting hormone on, then sticks them in rockwool and gives it seedling fertilizer.. and his look way shittier than mine, his have no roots yet and mine were like a week younger. Oh well I'll be happy if I can get one really good mother plant out of the bunch.
 
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