Prop 19 didn't pass!

ftpstrangr said:
You're right prohibition is not the answer. Decriminalization is. Come around with a better written prop in two years that doesn't so blatantly hand marijuana to big business, and I guarantee you see support. Plus if you don't live in Cali you have no say. I'm not attacking the rest of the nations feeble attempts at marijuana reform ;).
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I have no official vote, but it's a well known fact that my area moves in the same direction that California does, and you guys just had a chance to put some really good work in motion. There is no way you could make anything legal without handing it over to big business. If it will turn a profit, corporations are going to jump all over it. "decriminalization" is not a solution so long as it remains on drug tests.

fatfarmer said:
You Cali. people better watch you asses ,you no voters just let a big dog lose and he is hungry! The south of the border dealers are going to start cutting heads off and kill more boaters on the water. This is a bad day for you border towns! 30,000 dead in three years .Well it makes for interesting news at 11:P.M. news!
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How, exactly, would voting yes on prop 19 have helped the cartel?
 
AbsoluteChron said:
Cry all you want that Prop 19 failed, it appealed to a narrow section of the population and was defeated in a fair election. That's what is known as a success for democracy. You can already be caught with an ounce and have only a $100 fine similar in severity to a traffic ticket. I think that most cops tend to be (and have been for a long time) quite reasonable about marijuana for personal amounts anyways. How about instead of arguing over somewhat arbitrary state legislation we focus on the real problems that we can all agree with in the federal legislation?
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i would hardly call 46% of the voters a "narrow section of the population". greed, fear and control won out over rational compromise by a mere eight points and all you can do is spout this inane crap about how cops are so understanding and "it's only a ticket anyway". ignorance and unenlightened self-interest held sway in california, supposedly one of the union's most forward thinking states, and you think there's any chance of the federal bureaucracy changing its stance? coupled with the re-election of one of california's most liberal failures of a governor, the defeat of this measure shows us just how little the left cares for the basic right of self-ownership and highlights one of the greatest pitfalls of democracy, the potential for a dictatorship of the proletariat.
 
Democracy simply doesn't work. It's mob rule, 2 wolves and a lamb voting on what's for dinner. No such thing as a fair election.
 
well my dreams of coming cali and relaxing with some good herb and not having to look over my shoulder is no more bit i really believe that medi patients have a tough battle ahead and regret will be in the air they were already cracking down on medical distributers and now the majority says no to it dont some think they will use this as justifiable cause to tighten up on mj on a whole
 
undertheice said:
i would hardly call 46% of the voters a "narrow section of the population". greed, fear and control won out over rational compromise by a mere eight points and all you can do is spout this inane crap about how cops are so understanding and "it's only a ticket anyway". ignorance and unenlightened self-interest held sway in california, supposedly one of the union's most forward thinking states, and you think there's any chance of the federal bureaucracy changing its stance? coupled with the re-election of one of california's most liberal failures of a governor, the defeat of this measure shows us just how little the left cares for the basic right of self-ownership and highlights one of the greatest pitfalls of democracy, the potential for a dictatorship of the proletariat.
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I have no idea where you keep getting this bullshit. 70% of republicans that voted, voted against prop19 http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2010/results/individual/#CAI01
 
MexicanWarlord420 said:
I have no idea where you keep getting this bullshit. 70% of republicans that voted, voted against prop19
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read the first part of that sentence. brown, one of california's most liberal politicians in recent history, was installed once again in the governor's mansion. wouldn't you say that denotes a decidedly left-ward tilt to the overall electorate? you'd think that the left's much vaunted compassion would have overridden their fears and allowed 19 to easily pass. but no, the same group that elected this tax and spend fool also decided that the average man shouldn't have the right to decide what is put into his own body.
 
undertheice said:
read the first part of that sentence. brown, one of california's most liberal politicians in recent history, was installed once again in the governor's mansion. wouldn't you say that denotes a decidedly left-ward tilt to the overall electorate? you'd think that the left's much vaunted compassion would have overridden their fears and allowed 19 to easily pass. but no, the same group that elected this tax and spend fool also decided that the average man shouldn't have the right to decide what is put into his own body.
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Don't blame Brown for anything. It was him and that monster Meg Whitman. This governor race was a battle of lesser evils. I'm not exactly pro-brown but it's a hell of a lot better than her. We saw what happened with the governator.
 
TokinPodPilot said:
OK... can't make it. 93.8% reported in and 46.2% v. 45.5%. I seriously hope Riverside, San Bernardino and Ventura counties don't screw things up. GL everyone.
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We won that battle. Cheers dude! I hope there are no hard feelings over the prop 19 debating. We are all on the same side again as far as I'm concerned.
 
undertheice said:
congratulations fellow californians, you've managed to assure that the dark ages remain firmly in place. the defeat of prop 19 is a testament to both the gullibility of the masses and the greed of the little guy. how many more folks do you think will be imprisoned while we wait for another chance at the brass ring? while you smug medical users gloat over your fraud, the rest of us will just have to keep wondering at every knock on the door. while you small time growers protect your precious profits, the individual grower will just have to keep the grow lights burning in the closet. while all of you uber-liberal fools are demanding free herb for all, we simple working folks will just have to keep on hiding our stash. you really should be ashamed, but you won't be. you'll claim it as a victory over corporate greed or some such silly rationalization. you'll swear that a better bill is on the way and that the compromises of 19 were too much of an imposition.

the forces behind this prohibition are laughing at you simpletons. while reaching for the gold, you've let that brass ring pass you by. yes, it was just brass. it was slightly tarnished and didn't shine as much as we would have liked, but it was a stepping stone and you just ignored its promise. tomorrow's news may very well bring us a new crackdown on your precious medical rights, but you'll still gloat that you've denied someone else their profits. you'll whine over how unfair those evil leos are being, but you're the ones who have supplied them with their ammunition. what short-sighted wanna-bes you are.
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How can it be that I agree with you? Well said, although a little nasty, simpletons, uber-liberal fools? You are correct in believing it was the little for profit growers that put the nail in prop 19s coffin. As was projected on this forum, the greed of growing profits, disguised as a quality issue was the onus for many no votes. Those Nay sayers went lockstep with law enforcement to overthrow the movement, and succeded. Kudos to the "for profit" growers in their repeal of prop-19. Now the rest of the people will have to deal with LEOs and incarceration for small pot offenses, like walking down the street with a small amount of pot on them.
 
The truth is that even if it had passed, you wouldn't see any marijuana factory farms popping up for a long time. No business would invest that kind of money in it as long as there is a contradiction between state and federal law. Based on what I'm reading on this forum, it seems a lot of growers are worried about losing their business because of increased competition, but if profits is your primary concern, wouldn't the increased demand give you guys all the business you could handle?

I guess it seems contradictory to me that marijuana legalization hurts marijuana growers.
 
bedspirit said:
The truth is that even if it had passed, you wouldn't see any marijuana factory farms popping up for a long time. No business would invest that kind of money in it as long as there is a contradiction between state and federal law. Based on what I'm reading on this forum, it seems a lot of growers are worried about losing their business because of increased competition, but if profits is your primary concern, wouldn't the increased demand give you guys all the business you could handle?

I guess it seems contradictory to me that marijuana legalization hurts marijuana growers.
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What are you talking about? They already had a 60,000sq ft facility almost ready to go in Oakland if the prop passed. I read that on this website.
 
undertheice said:
congratulations fellow californians, you've managed to assure that the dark ages remain firmly in place. the defeat of prop 19 is a testament to both the gullibility of the masses and the greed of the little guy. how many more folks do you think will be imprisoned while we wait for another chance at the brass ring? while you smug medical users gloat over your fraud, the rest of us will just have to keep wondering at every knock on the door. while you small time growers protect your precious profits, the individual grower will just have to keep the grow lights burning in the closet. while all of you uber-liberal fools are demanding free herb for all, we simple working folks will just have to keep on hiding our stash. you really should be ashamed, but you won't be. you'll claim it as a victory over corporate greed or some such silly rationalization. you'll swear that a better bill is on the way and that the compromises of 19 were too much of an imposition.

the forces behind this prohibition are laughing at you simpletons. while reaching for the gold, you've let that brass ring pass you by. yes, it was just brass. it was slightly tarnished and didn't shine as much as we would have liked, but it was a stepping stone and you just ignored its promise. tomorrow's news may very well bring us a new crackdown on your precious medical rights, but you'll still gloat that you've denied someone else their profits. you'll whine over how unfair those evil leos are being, but you're the ones who have supplied them with their ammunition. what short-sighted wanna-bes you are.
Click to expand...

Well said. "No" voters should be ostrasized.
 
Dan Kone said:
We won that battle. Cheers dude! I hope there are no hard feelings over the prop 19 debating. We are all on the same side again as far as I'm concerned.
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:clap: Cheers indeed. I don't mind the vigorous debate at all. In fact, you've been one of the few reasonable proponents throughout this process. I agree we all want an end to the prohibition, but there's still a lot of leeway in what way that end will come. Like I said earlier... this highly contentious bill was still pretty close to garnering the necessary votes. Imagine what the revision of it that reconciles the inadequacies will do, and we have more than a year to hammer it out and get it ready for 2012. We are much better getting a more reasonable bill passed, than trying to repair a bad and broken one with court battles and piecemeal legislation. Personally, I would love to see an amalgam of the commercial allowances from Prop. 19 and the general smoker/user protective stance of CCCHI. It'll be hard as hell to hammer out, but nothing worth having is ever easy.
 
AbsoluteChron said:
Cry all you want that Prop 19 failed, it appealed to a narrow section of the population and was defeated in a fair election. That's what is known as a success for democracy. You can already be caught with an ounce and have only a $100 fine similar in severity to a traffic ticket. I think that most cops tend to be (and have been for a long time) quite reasonable about marijuana for personal amounts anyways. How about instead of arguing over somewhat arbitrary state legislation we focus on the real problems that we can all agree with in the federal legislation?
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Thanks. I've been fighting for MJ freedom for 20 years. All I ever wanted was for people to quit having to go to jail for minor possession. SB1449 has put an end to that in Cali. IDK why nobody knows of this legislation and that it has already been put into effect.

The Federal Government will never legalize MJ. We are bound by international treaties to prohibit illicit drugs. That is why the feds cannot just 'look the other way'. So if you want to legalize MJ, you need to go to the UN and plead your case somewhere in between a discussion on nuclear disarmament and world hunger.
 
mipbar said:
Well said. "No" voters should be ostrasized.
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Or... you can get over and get on to the work of making 2012 the year we come up with a legalization effort that we can all support. Even most proponents agreed that Prop. 19 wasn't perfect. Hell, some even admitted it was badly written, but were willing to accept it as something instead of nothing. Seriously.... this emoraging from the proponents is just getting old fast. Those of you in the state of California, we have a little over a year to come up with a proposition we can all support and that the rational public will find palatable. Those of you not in the state of California, there is nothing to stop you from further pursuing legislation in your own state. Your state legislators and government agencies value YOUR opinions and ideas far more than what we do in California. For all the talk of ending prohibition and metaphorical references to the end of Alcohol Prohibition, you seem to purposely or benignly miss the really important fact of that comparison. Alcohol Prohibition ended because a majority of the states told the Federal government it was time to end it. A Majority of the states. If you really want this to end, then it's time for EVERYONE, not just one state, to stand up and demand it.
 
Well said for sure!
undertheice said:
congratulations fellow californians, you've managed to assure that the dark ages remain firmly in place. the defeat of prop 19 is a testament to both the gullibility of the masses and the greed of the little guy. how many more folks do you think will be imprisoned while we wait for another chance at the brass ring? while you smug medical users gloat over your fraud, the rest of us will just have to keep wondering at every knock on the door. while you small time growers protect your precious profits, the individual grower will just have to keep the grow lights burning in the closet. while all of you uber-liberal fools are demanding free herb for all, we simple working folks will just have to keep on hiding our stash. you really should be ashamed, but you won't be. you'll claim it as a victory over corporate greed or some such silly rationalization. you'll swear that a better bill is on the way and that the compromises of 19 were too much of an imposition.

the forces behind this prohibition are laughing at you simpletons. while reaching for the gold, you've let that brass ring pass you by. yes, it was just brass. it was slightly tarnished and didn't shine as much as we would have liked, but it was a stepping stone and you just ignored its promise. tomorrow's news may very well bring us a new crackdown on your precious medical rights, but you'll still gloat that you've denied someone else their profits. you'll whine over how unfair those evil leos are being, but you're the ones who have supplied them with their ammunition. what short-sighted wanna-bes you are.
Click to expand...
 
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