Proper Flushing, and How Long?
- Thread starter uoxi
- Start date
homebrewer
Well-Known Member
Anyone looking to take advice from you needs to look no further than the picture of your yellow garden below.
Grizzdude
Well-Known Member
is that all you got? 1 of my pictures? You must be embaressed about your over nuted small bud plant that your picking tommarow. Well I guess I don't know shit according to you
And before you go shouting small buds, this was a winter greenhouse grow where temps would reach -15 outside.
Now thats a properly flushed plant ready for harvest.
Any questions?
And before you go shouting small buds, this was a winter greenhouse grow where temps would reach -15 outside.
Now thats a properly flushed plant ready for harvest.
Any questions?
homebrewer
Well-Known Member
So what now, is it my turn to post better photos? Because I have them. Is that how a pissing contest goes? Then you'll post some more, then I will, and the end result is a thread-jack because you got your butt hurt by one of my jokes 
Let it go kid.
If you want some respect, start a journal. Until then, you're a nuisance.
Then you'll post some more, then I will, and the end result is a thread-jack because you got your butt hurt by one of my jokes Let it go kid. If you want some respect, start a journal. Until then, you're a nuisance.
Grizzdude
Well-Known Member
Why do you keep dodging the point that you are speading bad information to newbs trying to learn, that is what this is all about. I don't need respect, but when someone goes around spreading false information to new people trying to learn I will correct them. Now take your correction like a man and get over it
homebrewer
Well-Known Member
What bad info are you talking about? Flushing with a mild nute mix leaches more salts than plain water? Read your cervantes book bro. Is this now an argument about how to flush properly? Or should we debate the necessity of a flush to begin with? According to you and your infinite wisdom, green leaves contain nasty nitrogen, that's funny because my garden-grown salad that I had for lunch wasn't flushed and it tasted sweet and juicy. Did I mention it wasn't nitrogen deficient?
TheNextGreenGiant
Member
hate to jump in the middle of this great debate, but i just joined up and don't know anything about this site... I'm trying to figure out how to make my own original post..... some help, maybe?
Grizzdude
Well-Known Member
Ummm flushing with a mild nute solution before harvest? Thats plain wrong as you would be adding more salt bonds to the medium, you use plain water as other people have already told you the same thing. And were not talking salad here bro, have you ever tried smoking your salad? Try smoking it and see what you taste. Like I said before take your correction like a man. You might want to start here https://www.rollitup.org/newbie-central/ you need to learn a bit about nutrients before giving bad advise.
homebrewer
Well-Known Member
Is tobacco flushed to the point of deficiency? Does tobacco all-of-a-sudden stop taking nutrients up from the ground around harvest? No, it's harvested and cured which allows for the product to take on properties that are usually attributed to "smoothness". Do you see the parallels? I'd tell you about my own flushing procedures and why I do it the way I do, but I don't like you and don't want to help you.
stumpjumper
Well-Known Member
Well this was an interesting thread.. My opinion, for the little it's worth here, I would rather flush with a little bit of nutes in the water because I'm starting the flush 2 weeks before harvest when the buds are going to fatten up the most.. Why starve the plant at such a time? I would rather reduce the amount of nutes it is getting while still leaving it a little bit to eat.
I've never tried either way and just getting ready to start a final flush for the first time. SO I don't know shit.
I've never tried either way and just getting ready to start a final flush for the first time. SO I don't know shit.
Grizzdude
Well-Known Member
Just dont use too much and I would at least go plain water the last 7 days or you will taste it in your final product. Unless of coarse you use a flushing solution.
Mongobud
Well-Known Member
If you look at a bottle of flushing solution (i.e. Clearex, Final flush) it contain a mild nutrient mix..slight NPK but more sugars than anything. The purpose of these Mild strength nutrients is to leach out the salts quicker. I have noticed my plants flush and leach out nitrogen faster with these solutions, than with plain RO water. I'll side with Homebrewer on this. I usually flush with a light mix of sugars and enzymes..but I'm in hydro, and if I feed heavily the entire grow...I may use plain RO.
Grizzdude
Well-Known Member
I'll take that as a compliment. Have fun with your harsh smoke
BeginnersLuck
Active Member
I like to flush for a few days after I ripen for a couple weeks after I flower for a few weeks after I grow for some weeks and I see the seedlings for a week
woodsmaneh!
Well-Known Member
Well her you go Grizzdude!
I put the summery first as most of you can't or don't want to read and learn. It is also backed up by science links attached.
It's never to late to learn good information and grow better and more. An open mind is a wonderful thing.
Peace
Summary:
Pre-harvest flushing puts the plant(s) under serious stress. The plant has to deal with nutrient deficiencies in a very important part of its cycle. Strong changes in the amount of dissolved substances in the root-zone stress the roots, possibly to the point of direct physical damage to them. Many immobile elements are no more available for further metabolic processes. We are loosing the fan leaves and damage will show likely on new growth as well.
The grower should react in an educated way to the plant needs. Excessive, deficient or unbalanced levels should be avoided regardless the nutrient source. Nutrient levels should be gradually adjusted to the lesser needs in later flowering. Stress factors should be limited as far as possible. If that is accomplished throughout the entire life cycle, there shouldn’t be any excessive nutrient compounds in the plants tissue. It doesn’t sound likely to the author that you can correct growing errors (significant lower mobile nutrient compound levels) with preharvest flushing.
For one thing, the most common way that growers flush their crops is by giving their crops water that has no nutrients in it. But this doesn't fully cleanse your crops. It only starves your plants so they lose vigorous floral growth and resin percentages just before harvest.
Other growers use flushing formulas that generally consist of a few chemicals that sometimes have the ability to pull a limited amount of residues out of your plants.
Nutrient fundamentals and uptake:
Until recently it was common thought that all nutrients are absorbed by plant roots as ions of mineral elements. However in newer studies more and more evidence emerged that additionally plant roots are capable of taking up complex organic molecules like amino acids directly thus bypassing the mineralization process.
The major nutrient uptake processes are:
1) Active transport mechanism into root hairs (the plant has to put energy in it, ATP driven) which is selective to some degree. This is one way the plant (being immobile) can adjust to the environment.
2) Passive transport (diffusion) through symplast to endodermis.
http://www.biol.sc.edu/courses/bio102/f99-3637.html
The claim only ‘chemical’ ferted plants need to be flushed should be taken with a grain of salt. Organic and synthetic ferted plants take up mineral ions alike, probably to a different degree though. Many influences play key roles in the taste and flavor of the final bud, like the nutrition balance and strength throughout the entire life cycle of the plant, the drying and curing process and other environmental conditions.
3) Active transport mechanism of organic molecules into root hairs via endocytosis.
Here is a simplified overview of nutrient functions:
Nitrogen is needed to build chlorophyll, amino acids, and proteins. Phosphorus is necessary for photosynthesis and other growth processes. Potassium is utilized to form sugar and starch and to activate enzymes. Magnesium also plays a role in activating enzymes and is part of chlorophyll. Calcium is used during cell growth and division and is part of the cell wall. Sulfur is part of amino acids and proteins.
Plants also require trace elements, which include boron, chlorine, copper, iron, manganese, sodium, zinc, molybdenum, nickel, cobalt, and silicon.
Copper, iron, and manganese are used in photosynthesis. Molybdenum, nickel, and cobalt are necessary for the movement of nitrogen in the plant. Boron is important for reproduction, while chlorine stimulates root growth and development. Sodium benefits the movement of water within the plant and zinc is neeeded for enzymes and used in auxins (organic plant hormones). Finally, silicon helps to build tough cell walls for better heat and drought tolerance.
http://www.sidwell.edu
You can get an idea from this how closely all the essential elements are involved in the many metabolic processes within the plant, often relying on each other.
Nutrient movement and mobility inside the plant:
Besides endocytosis, there are two major pathways inside the plant, the xylem and the phloem. When water and minerals are absorbed by plant roots, these substances must be transported up to the plant's stems and leaves for photosynthesis and further metabolic processes. This upward transport happens in the xylem. While the xylem is able to transport organic compounds, the phloem is much more adapted to do so.
The organic compounds thus originating in the leaves have to be moved throughout the plant, upwards and downwards, to where they are needed. This transport happens in the phloem. Compounds that are moving through the phloem are mostly:
Sugars as sugary saps, organic nitrogen compounds (amino acids and amides, ureides and legumes), hormones and proteins.
http://www.sirinet.net
Not all nutrient compounds are movable within the plant.
1) N, P, K, Mg and S are considered mobile: they can move up and down the plant in both xylem and phloem.
Deficiency appears on old leaves first.
2) Ca, Fe, Zn, Mo, B, Cu, Mn are considered immobile: they only move up the plant in the xylem.
Deficiency appears on new leaves first.
http://generalhorticulture.tamu.edu
Storage organelles:
Salts and organic metabolites can be stored in storage organelles. The most important storage organelle is the vacuole, which can contribute up to 90% of the cell volume. The majority of compounds found in the vacuole are sugars, polysaccharides, organic acids and proteins though.
http://jeb.biologists.org.pdf
Trans-location:
Now that the basics are explained, we can take a look at the trans-location process. It should be already clear that only mobile elements can be trans located through the phloem. Immobile elements cant be trans located and are not more available to the plant for further metabolic processes and new plant growth.
Since flushing (in theory) induces a nutrient deficiency in the root-zone, the translocation process aids in the plants survival. Trans-location is transportation of assimilates through the phloem from source (a net exporter of assimilate) to sink (a net importer of assimilate). Sources are mostly mature fan leaves and sinks are mostly apical meristems, lateral meristem, fruit, seed and developing leaves etc.
You can see this by the yellowing and later dying of the mature fan leaves from the second day on after flushing started. Developing leaves, bud leaves and calyxes don’t serve as sources, they are sinks. Changes in those plant parts are due to the deficient immobile elements which start to indicate on new growth first.
Unfortunately, several metabolic processes are unable to take place anymore since other elements needed are no longer available (the immobile ones). This includes processes where nitrogen and phosphorus, which have likely the most impact on taste, are involved.
For example nitrogen: usually plants use nitrogen to form plant proteins. Enzyme systems rapidly reduce nitrate-N (NO3-) to compounds that are used to build amino-nitrogen which is the basis for amino acids. Amino acids are building blocks for proteins, most of them are plant enzymes responsible for all the chemical changes important for plant growth.
Sulfur and calcium among others have major roles in production and activating of proteins, thereby decreasing nitrate within the plant. Excess nitrate within the plant may result from unbalanced nutrition rather than an excess of nitrogen.
http://muextension.missouri.edu
Summary:
Preharvest flushing puts the plant(s) under serious stress. The plant has to deal with nutrient deficiencies in a very important part of its cycle. Strong changes in the amount of dissolved substances in the root-zone stress the roots, possibly to the point of direct physical damage to them. Many immobile elements are no more available for further metabolic processes. We are loosing the fan leaves and damage will show likely on new growth as well.
The grower should react in an educated way to the plant needs. Excessive, deficient or unbalanced levels should be avoided regardless the nutrient source. Nutrient levels should be gradually adjusted to the lesser needs in later flowering. Stress factors should be limited as far as possible. If that is accomplished throughout the entire life cycle, there shouldn’t be any excessive nutrient compounds in the plants tissue. It doesn’t sound likely to the author that you can correct growing errors (significant lower mobile nutrient compound levels) with preharvest flushing.
Drying and curing (when done right) on the other hand have proved (In many studies) to have a major impact on taste and flavor, by breaking down chlorophylls and converting starches into sugars. Most attributes blamed on un-flushed buds may be the result of unbalanced nutrition and/or overfert and unproper drying/curing.
I put the summery first as most of you can't or don't want to read and learn. It is also backed up by science links attached.
It's never to late to learn good information and grow better and more. An open mind is a wonderful thing.
Peace
Summary:
Pre-harvest flushing puts the plant(s) under serious stress. The plant has to deal with nutrient deficiencies in a very important part of its cycle. Strong changes in the amount of dissolved substances in the root-zone stress the roots, possibly to the point of direct physical damage to them. Many immobile elements are no more available for further metabolic processes. We are loosing the fan leaves and damage will show likely on new growth as well.
The grower should react in an educated way to the plant needs. Excessive, deficient or unbalanced levels should be avoided regardless the nutrient source. Nutrient levels should be gradually adjusted to the lesser needs in later flowering. Stress factors should be limited as far as possible. If that is accomplished throughout the entire life cycle, there shouldn’t be any excessive nutrient compounds in the plants tissue. It doesn’t sound likely to the author that you can correct growing errors (significant lower mobile nutrient compound levels) with preharvest flushing.
For one thing, the most common way that growers flush their crops is by giving their crops water that has no nutrients in it. But this doesn't fully cleanse your crops. It only starves your plants so they lose vigorous floral growth and resin percentages just before harvest.
Other growers use flushing formulas that generally consist of a few chemicals that sometimes have the ability to pull a limited amount of residues out of your plants.
Nutrient fundamentals and uptake:
Until recently it was common thought that all nutrients are absorbed by plant roots as ions of mineral elements. However in newer studies more and more evidence emerged that additionally plant roots are capable of taking up complex organic molecules like amino acids directly thus bypassing the mineralization process.
The major nutrient uptake processes are:
1) Active transport mechanism into root hairs (the plant has to put energy in it, ATP driven) which is selective to some degree. This is one way the plant (being immobile) can adjust to the environment.
2) Passive transport (diffusion) through symplast to endodermis.
http://www.biol.sc.edu/courses/bio102/f99-3637.html
The claim only ‘chemical’ ferted plants need to be flushed should be taken with a grain of salt. Organic and synthetic ferted plants take up mineral ions alike, probably to a different degree though. Many influences play key roles in the taste and flavor of the final bud, like the nutrition balance and strength throughout the entire life cycle of the plant, the drying and curing process and other environmental conditions.
3) Active transport mechanism of organic molecules into root hairs via endocytosis.
Here is a simplified overview of nutrient functions:
Nitrogen is needed to build chlorophyll, amino acids, and proteins. Phosphorus is necessary for photosynthesis and other growth processes. Potassium is utilized to form sugar and starch and to activate enzymes. Magnesium also plays a role in activating enzymes and is part of chlorophyll. Calcium is used during cell growth and division and is part of the cell wall. Sulfur is part of amino acids and proteins.
Plants also require trace elements, which include boron, chlorine, copper, iron, manganese, sodium, zinc, molybdenum, nickel, cobalt, and silicon.
Copper, iron, and manganese are used in photosynthesis. Molybdenum, nickel, and cobalt are necessary for the movement of nitrogen in the plant. Boron is important for reproduction, while chlorine stimulates root growth and development. Sodium benefits the movement of water within the plant and zinc is neeeded for enzymes and used in auxins (organic plant hormones). Finally, silicon helps to build tough cell walls for better heat and drought tolerance.
http://www.sidwell.edu
You can get an idea from this how closely all the essential elements are involved in the many metabolic processes within the plant, often relying on each other.
Nutrient movement and mobility inside the plant:
Besides endocytosis, there are two major pathways inside the plant, the xylem and the phloem. When water and minerals are absorbed by plant roots, these substances must be transported up to the plant's stems and leaves for photosynthesis and further metabolic processes. This upward transport happens in the xylem. While the xylem is able to transport organic compounds, the phloem is much more adapted to do so.
The organic compounds thus originating in the leaves have to be moved throughout the plant, upwards and downwards, to where they are needed. This transport happens in the phloem. Compounds that are moving through the phloem are mostly:
Sugars as sugary saps, organic nitrogen compounds (amino acids and amides, ureides and legumes), hormones and proteins.
http://www.sirinet.net
Not all nutrient compounds are movable within the plant.
1) N, P, K, Mg and S are considered mobile: they can move up and down the plant in both xylem and phloem.
Deficiency appears on old leaves first.
2) Ca, Fe, Zn, Mo, B, Cu, Mn are considered immobile: they only move up the plant in the xylem.
Deficiency appears on new leaves first.
http://generalhorticulture.tamu.edu
Storage organelles:
Salts and organic metabolites can be stored in storage organelles. The most important storage organelle is the vacuole, which can contribute up to 90% of the cell volume. The majority of compounds found in the vacuole are sugars, polysaccharides, organic acids and proteins though.
http://jeb.biologists.org.pdf
Trans-location:
Now that the basics are explained, we can take a look at the trans-location process. It should be already clear that only mobile elements can be trans located through the phloem. Immobile elements cant be trans located and are not more available to the plant for further metabolic processes and new plant growth.
Since flushing (in theory) induces a nutrient deficiency in the root-zone, the translocation process aids in the plants survival. Trans-location is transportation of assimilates through the phloem from source (a net exporter of assimilate) to sink (a net importer of assimilate). Sources are mostly mature fan leaves and sinks are mostly apical meristems, lateral meristem, fruit, seed and developing leaves etc.
You can see this by the yellowing and later dying of the mature fan leaves from the second day on after flushing started. Developing leaves, bud leaves and calyxes don’t serve as sources, they are sinks. Changes in those plant parts are due to the deficient immobile elements which start to indicate on new growth first.
Unfortunately, several metabolic processes are unable to take place anymore since other elements needed are no longer available (the immobile ones). This includes processes where nitrogen and phosphorus, which have likely the most impact on taste, are involved.
For example nitrogen: usually plants use nitrogen to form plant proteins. Enzyme systems rapidly reduce nitrate-N (NO3-) to compounds that are used to build amino-nitrogen which is the basis for amino acids. Amino acids are building blocks for proteins, most of them are plant enzymes responsible for all the chemical changes important for plant growth.
Sulfur and calcium among others have major roles in production and activating of proteins, thereby decreasing nitrate within the plant. Excess nitrate within the plant may result from unbalanced nutrition rather than an excess of nitrogen.
http://muextension.missouri.edu
Summary:
Preharvest flushing puts the plant(s) under serious stress. The plant has to deal with nutrient deficiencies in a very important part of its cycle. Strong changes in the amount of dissolved substances in the root-zone stress the roots, possibly to the point of direct physical damage to them. Many immobile elements are no more available for further metabolic processes. We are loosing the fan leaves and damage will show likely on new growth as well.
The grower should react in an educated way to the plant needs. Excessive, deficient or unbalanced levels should be avoided regardless the nutrient source. Nutrient levels should be gradually adjusted to the lesser needs in later flowering. Stress factors should be limited as far as possible. If that is accomplished throughout the entire life cycle, there shouldn’t be any excessive nutrient compounds in the plants tissue. It doesn’t sound likely to the author that you can correct growing errors (significant lower mobile nutrient compound levels) with preharvest flushing.
Drying and curing (when done right) on the other hand have proved (In many studies) to have a major impact on taste and flavor, by breaking down chlorophylls and converting starches into sugars. Most attributes blamed on un-flushed buds may be the result of unbalanced nutrition and/or overfert and unproper drying/curing.
Grizzdude
Well-Known Member
Anyone looking to take advice from you needs to look no further than the picture of your yellow garden below.
QUOTE]
Anyone looking to take advise from you needs to look no further than one of your latest threads "Why does my bud taste like shit?" https://www.rollitup.org/harvesting-curing/355002-bud-flavor-does-exist.html