reggaerican
Well-Known Member
great avatar bricktop, goody gumdrops
Pruning - When do you take all the leaves off?
- Thread starter John Stevens
- Start date
Plants are amazing, they will drop off leaves when it decides to. In the rainforest, leaves and branches fight to get to the top of the canopy to cement their legacy. The leaves below the top canopy usually die off, it is just nature.
A bear never goes out to the woods to clip the apple trees leaves for a larger bee nest.
A bear never goes out to the woods to clip the apple trees leaves for a larger bee nest.
So how was I able to grow this with all those leaves removed then brainiacs ??? 64 of these on a tray and averaged 30 grams per plant. Yeah I know pictures and proof are overrated. Need more pictures PROVING you wrong I will be happy to put them up.....
Why did it yield over 3 lbs under one light when clearly everything points to this being impossible ? Why does it keep doing this ? Where are all the pics and testimonies of people leaving all the leaves on their plants in a full sog table? Hmm. Every single thread I have seen from a poster with great yields in a SOG have plants that look very much like mine without any real fan leaves. How dense are you guys that you cant see all the leaf matter still on my photo ???
All you closed minded dolts that need proof just grow 64 plants on a 4X4 tray and see for yourself how EVERYTHING would get no almost no light from all the leaves and check out your super awesome yield ..... What you guys really don't get is a very simple concept or getting as much bud as much light as possible for a given space. Its called efficiency. Wow, super technical I know. Take it another step and grow 128 plants in a 4X4, it can and has been done. You wont get any light to the buds unless you cut leaves, sorry. You can tuck them and do whatever you like but you will still be growing a big table of leaf.
You guys keep growing your sub par yielding trays and I'll keep kicking your rears doing the unthinkable .... LOL I have only methodically tried growing every way possible and have a very clear winner by about 2 fold but hey what do I know. The wanna be botanists say it isnt possible so there you have it guys.....
Why did it yield over 3 lbs under one light when clearly everything points to this being impossible ? Why does it keep doing this ? Where are all the pics and testimonies of people leaving all the leaves on their plants in a full sog table? Hmm. Every single thread I have seen from a poster with great yields in a SOG have plants that look very much like mine without any real fan leaves. How dense are you guys that you cant see all the leaf matter still on my photo ???
All you closed minded dolts that need proof just grow 64 plants on a 4X4 tray and see for yourself how EVERYTHING would get no almost no light from all the leaves and check out your super awesome yield ..... What you guys really don't get is a very simple concept or getting as much bud as much light as possible for a given space. Its called efficiency. Wow, super technical I know. Take it another step and grow 128 plants in a 4X4, it can and has been done. You wont get any light to the buds unless you cut leaves, sorry. You can tuck them and do whatever you like but you will still be growing a big table of leaf.
You guys keep growing your sub par yielding trays and I'll keep kicking your rears doing the unthinkable .... LOL I have only methodically tried growing every way possible and have a very clear winner by about 2 fold but hey what do I know. The wanna be botanists say it isnt possible so there you have it guys.....
cadeneli
Active Member
Stupid mother nature putting all these stupid leaves that serve as solar panels and store nutrients and sugars that are crucial to achieve maximum bud potential. Let's cut em off. I tried this years ago after reading conflicting opinions with same strain, same conditions and the plants I didn't touch were better in every aspect. One love
Well I guess my "ESP" was correct after seeing your pictures. You'll be lucky to get over 1/2 gram per watt on that setup. Here I'll give you more pics. I staged that plant and others for the pictures I took. Still pulled some out that were in front of these tog et a better picture of the plants themselves but you get the idea.
And more recent photo of a lower yielding strain then the Chronic WW above. Only got about 20 gram per plant average (1280 grams per light)
Here is a 4X8 tray I just switched to 12X12 before they filled in. Do you guys have any idea how much foliage there would be on a tray like this after week 3 ? Cut all the leaves off at week three of bloom like I always do now. Was unbelievably overcrowded until I did so. I only had enough plants to put in 85 but still pulled a good 4 lbs off the tray. Had I done my usual 128 plants it would have been more like 6 lbs.
So finished "miracle" bud that shouldn't have grown .
I must just have MAGIC plants that grow like crazy no matter how much I abuse them.
Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
Because it was an indica or dominantly indica genes? See my avatar - 6" wide super dense colas. Now try this with a sativa and see what you get.
Like I've said, many times plants replace that which is lost. Many years ago I stripped out branches of a plant "to open it up" and it replaced the foliage by double.
Sure you will, R and FR light goes thru foliage. Where's your control group?
I want to see a scientifically controlled, empirical study regarding the removal of leaves and how it affects production.
Having said that, if it works for you and you don't mind being a slave to your garden, strip away.....
Looks good,
UB
cadeneli
Active Member
Well put. And I have to say that is a monster in your profile pic.
Proof, hmm lets see. How about the simple fact that my yields are higher then 99% of indoor growers and I dont even use CO2.
5 years of growing indoors only the last year have I stripped the leaves and coincidentally my yields are triple what they were a year ago.
Strains I HAVE done controlled comparisons are , Blue Cheese, Super Skunk, Blue Dream, Casey Jones, Chronic White Widow, Cheese, Sweet Tooth, Chem Dog, and more.... Grown in the same room same lighting and the trimmed tray out yielded the untrimmed tray two fold.
Not enough? Well then look at my pictures PROVING huge dense buds to the ground by trimming the leaves.
Why did I start cutting leaves? Reading threads from guys getting MAXIMUM yields. I like to model my grow from people with more experience then myself and getting much better then average results. Same reason I went to a 64 plant per light SOG. After reading several threads of guys getting well over a gram per watt I thought I would give it a try for myself. Growers like that usually dont start threads about cutting leaves and such and start these lame debates everyone seem to get all worked up over.
Timing is whats crucial for this to be successful. You cant just trim them during veg or early flower. The key is to wait until day 21 of bloom. Anyway, there will continue to be people who are happy with mediocre yields and thats fine. I only argue this becuase of all the false information people are spreading about something that actually works better.
cadeneli
Active Member
I think its funny these threads always end up being a dick measuring contest. And how xo you know your yield is higher than 99% of all indoor growers and who even cares. The fact is, its not good to hack your plant. I guess you are saying you know more about growing than jorge cervantes. If i had a nickle every time ive heard that.
LOL well if it was mine would be a lot bigger then most. I have been around here and other forums enough to know MOST guys hope to get 1 gram per watt. Fact is it IS good to hack your leaves off IF you want a higher yield in a full SOG setup. If you are happy with lower yields keep all of them on. Ed Rosenthal says cut them so there you have it..
PS how is it my Chronic White Widow indoor buds are LARGER then my 6 foot outdoor one taken from the same mother if cutting the leaves was so detrimental ? Must be just another plant that had pixie dust sprinkled on it eh ??
Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
Well, if Ed says it, it's got to be champ.
You really don't think the mutts you bought have any degree of significance from one "strain" to the next? Any one can produce beans and give them a name. Doesn't mean they're worth a crap.
UB
Total Head
Well-Known Member
correct me if i'm wrong, but didn't you just post a thread in the general section of your outdoor harvest? it really was a thing of beauty and i repped you for it, but i couldn't help but notice all those healthy fan leaves everywhere...just saying.
My Ed comment was directed at the other guy mentioning Cervante like it really mattered. Muts I bought? Dont follow unless you are implying seeds which I didnt. Mine are all cones from the same mothers so no not "mutts" =)
Lol yeah that was me and no I didnt touch the leaves on those plants. Outdoors is pretty different. Lot more space and the light source moves all over the place unlike indoors. If I was trying to put my whole outdoor grow in a space uch much smaller I would actually be growing a lot higher numbers much closer together and chopping leaves. What can I say, I didnt believe it until I tried it properly myself. Thanks for the reps =)
AbsoluteChron
Member
Canopy management is the entire purpose for trimming the fan leaves. Trimming the leaves is an effort to manipulate the light intensity and penetration throughout the plant. The reason I answered this way is because the parity between sunlight's ability to penetrate through leaves is so much better that my answer would be different for indoor vs outdoor. Also, I would be HIGHLY SURPRISED if any of the sources you are referring to are based on HID lighting as opposed to sunlight. I am also fairly certain that this data you have has nothing to do with cannabis specifically (namely its photoreceptivity), and does not compare to training techniques where the result of trimming is more bud sites. Is it really that unbelievable that growing cannabis, given the huge number of variables involved, is actually quite a bit more situational than you currently think?
Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
Hrrmmmmmmmph, beat that chest!
You'd have higher yields if you left the plant alone. I'll post this again from the guru of cannabis botany, R.C. Clark. This comes from a post by a forum buddy about 12 years or so ago. (told you the topic is recycled with every new crop of noobs!)
"Leafing" is one of the most misunderstood techniques of drug cannabis cultivation. He states that there are 3 common beliefs:
1.) Large shade leaves draw energy from the flowering plant and by removing the large fan leaves surplus energy will be available and larger floral clusters will be formed,
2.) Some feel that the inhibitors of flowering , synthesized in the fan leaves during the long
non-inductive days of summer, may be stored in the older leaves that were formed during the
noninductive photoperiod. Possibly, if these inhibitor-laden leaves are removed, the plant will
proceed to flower more quickly when the shorter days of fall trigger flowering,
3.) Large fan leaves shade the inner portions of the plant, and small, atrophied, interior floral clusters may begin to develop if they receive more light.
Few, if any, of the theories behind leafing have any validity. The large fan leaves have a definite function in the growth and development of cannabis. Large leaves serve as photosynthetic factories for the production of sugars and other necessary growth substances.They do create shade, but at the same time thay are collecting valuable solar energy and producing foods that will be used during the floral development of the plant. Premature removal of the fan leaves may cause stunting because the potential for photosynthesis is reduced.
Most cannabis plants begin to lose their larger leaves when they enter the flowering stage and this trend continues on until senescence (death of the plant). He also states that removing large amounts of fan leaves will also interfere with the metabolic balance of the plant. Leaf removal may also cause SEX REVERSAL resulting from a metabolic imbalance. He further states that cannabis grows largest when provided with plentiful nutrients, sunlight, and water, and left alone to grow and mature naturally.
It must be remembered that any alteration of the natural life cycle of cannabis will affect productivity.
This book has served me very well in my 12+ years of growing--I would have to side with RC on
this one--those sunleaves are there for a reason--they dont grow just for show--leave them on
there and let that plant grow naturally
UB
.
Clones are cuttings from mutts. You're not growing any pure landrace plants that I can see. They're all the same....the seedbanks just position the furniture around the room in a different spot and give them a recycled name.
You'd have higher yields if you left the plant alone. I'll post this again from the guru of cannabis botany, R.C. Clark. This comes from a post by a forum buddy about 12 years or so ago. (told you the topic is recycled with every new crop of noobs!)
"Leafing" is one of the most misunderstood techniques of drug cannabis cultivation. He states that there are 3 common beliefs:
1.) Large shade leaves draw energy from the flowering plant and by removing the large fan leaves surplus energy will be available and larger floral clusters will be formed,
2.) Some feel that the inhibitors of flowering , synthesized in the fan leaves during the long
non-inductive days of summer, may be stored in the older leaves that were formed during the
noninductive photoperiod. Possibly, if these inhibitor-laden leaves are removed, the plant will
proceed to flower more quickly when the shorter days of fall trigger flowering,
3.) Large fan leaves shade the inner portions of the plant, and small, atrophied, interior floral clusters may begin to develop if they receive more light.
Few, if any, of the theories behind leafing have any validity. The large fan leaves have a definite function in the growth and development of cannabis. Large leaves serve as photosynthetic factories for the production of sugars and other necessary growth substances.They do create shade, but at the same time thay are collecting valuable solar energy and producing foods that will be used during the floral development of the plant. Premature removal of the fan leaves may cause stunting because the potential for photosynthesis is reduced.
Most cannabis plants begin to lose their larger leaves when they enter the flowering stage and this trend continues on until senescence (death of the plant). He also states that removing large amounts of fan leaves will also interfere with the metabolic balance of the plant. Leaf removal may also cause SEX REVERSAL resulting from a metabolic imbalance. He further states that cannabis grows largest when provided with plentiful nutrients, sunlight, and water, and left alone to grow and mature naturally.
It must be remembered that any alteration of the natural life cycle of cannabis will affect productivity.
This book has served me very well in my 12+ years of growing--I would have to side with RC on
this one--those sunleaves are there for a reason--they dont grow just for show--leave them on
there and let that plant grow naturally
UB
.
MeJuana
Well-Known Member
I knew better than to trim and I still got talked into doing it! Even if trimming your STRAIN midflower was ok I am not seeing the advantage of removing FUEL CELLS from your plant that they use to store stuff. I had 3 ounces on Green Crack last run, I will have it again this run. OG Kush is stalling out, she is out of capacity to grow and it has been this way for weeks.. She is barely swelling up, trimming this plant was a huge mistake.
Don't blindly follow someone telling you to trim your plants in midflower. Do yourself a favor and do a search to see how many people who are legends like Uncle Ben telling you not to do this. I think trim your leafs, go ahead and kill some lights too because they are pointless.
P.S. Green Crack replaces her "leaf mass" that was removed within 2 weeks. OG Kush never did....
Don't blindly follow someone telling you to trim your plants in midflower. Do yourself a favor and do a search to see how many people who are legends like Uncle Ben telling you not to do this. I think trim your leafs, go ahead and kill some lights too because they are pointless.
P.S. Green Crack replaces her "leaf mass" that was removed within 2 weeks. OG Kush never did....
What else can I say other then you are plain wrong ? Have done plenty of back to back grows with same strains off the same mother switched at the same size and the ones with chopped leaves out yield it by a staggering two fold or more sometimes. I will go out on a limb and guess you never grew a 4 per SQ foot SOG (64 a tray).... Wow I could yield over 1.9 grams per watt by leaving the leaves alone ? Sorry I dont think so. If there was any validity to this whole "debate" then my grows wouldnt get anywhere near the maximum yields possible yet they by some "miracle" do. I'll just have to keep feeding them pixie dust I guess. Its expensive but its worth it for magic grows like this.....
FYI I still dont get what you angle is on the Mutt statement. All my plants are clone only. I never bought seeds and they all came from known good pheno mothers. Several I know of the original mother are over 20 years old but whatever. It makes no difference in the plain and simple fact that you and all the others in here are completely wrong on this matter under these circumstances. Like I said before , you need proof go do it yourself. Grow 64 plants in a 4X 4 tray and see how it turns out without trimming. I'll take a guess right now and bet no one yields more then a half pound for the whole tray of dried cut bud.
Furthermore the time that was written speaks for itself. Dated info will give dated results. I bet that guy never grew over a half gram per watt in his life.
Peace
"It must be remembered that any alteration of the natural life cycle of cannabis will affect productivity." Atleast he got this partially right. If done CORRECTLY it will increase your yield dramatically. Dont do it before 21 days in to flower and dont do it unless you have a very dense grow like a SCROG or full SOG.
Closet Farmer
Member
I always leave my leaves on till I harvest. I have always heard the leaves provide nutrients to the plant. I am more interested in producing the most potent bud possible so I do not mess with their food.