Pyrethrin or Spinosad? In flowering...

I should have posted this days ago as I have to spray tonight, but..

I know, I know, I know, its never a good idea to spray in flower. But sometimes you have to do things you might not want to. 3 weeks into flower and I am at what I believe is the last spray, and these white-flies should be gone.

I am just not sure which is the lesser of the 2 evils. From what I have read they are both considered very safe. And plenty of people seem to spray in flower.

Any input would be great.
Thanks

Pyganic has my vote.

Careful using other Pyrethrin based sprays as they usually contain other additives such aa neem which you don’t want to use in flower.

This link has some decent info.

Spinosad. It's just a bacteria. Pyrethins can be toxic.

PJ Diaz said:

Spinosad. It's just a bacteria. Pyrethins can be toxic.

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Pyrethrins are made from a species of Daisy and have been used for organic pest control for decades. Maybe you are thinking of Pyrethroids?

Oregon state University did a study and found that Pyrethrin and Spinosad are both quite safe for mammals and are broken down in 1-2 days after being inhaled or ingested so I think you are fine using either.

NukaKola said:

Pyrethrins are made from a species of Daisy and have been used for organic pest control for decades. Maybe you are thinking of Pyrethroids?

Oregon state University did a study and found that Pyrethrin and Spinosad are both quite safe for mammals and are broken down in 1-2 days after being inhaled or ingested so I think you are fine using either.

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Organic products can still be toxic: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrethrin#Toxicity

You might be fine using either, but personally I'd stick with the bacteria we know isn't toxic. The fact is that pyrethins work because of their toxicity to insects, while the bacteria of Spinosad affects the insects nervous system. I will use pyrethins in veg or very early flower, only when other measures aren't working or for particularly challenging pests.

NukaKola said:

Less Toxic Insecticides

While a good pest management plan will start with preventative, cultural, and other non-chemical methods, these are sometimes not completely effective on...

hgic.clemson.edu

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Wow, great link! Thanks...

flowers with traces of spinosad will fail testing in a few states.

waterproof808 said:

flowers with traces of spinosad will fail testing in a few states.

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No way. I was just typing this: Does anyone know why Spinosad isn't listed as an approved product/ingredient for commercial cannabis facilities? lol you answered before I could even ask. Peace

Thanks for the input. I went ahead with spinosad. Hopefully that's it

So I’m really confused that it’s ok for tobacco but not rec weed. Been searching all day as to WHY and just keep getting the same BS circular reasoning. Any one know of some real science to point to one way or another? And they have azadarachtin approved but not Spinosad. Thanks in advance.

PizzaBob said:

So I’m really confused that it’s ok for tobacco but not rec weed. Been searching all day as to WHY and just keep getting the same BS circular reasoning. Any one know of some real science to point to one way or another? And they have azadarachtin approved but not Spinosad. Thanks in advance.

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From my reading , there has not been enough studies to show much and more needs to be done. I believe the ONLY reason its banned is because of potential future lawsuits. Its MUCH safer then other well known products.....but thats about all they know , i think.

Spinosad breaks down incredibly fast under sunlight and grow lights

It will burn the pistils a bit. Ive used as far as 3 weeks into flower without any ill effects

spinosad will remain in plant tissues for a while. heard several growers who said they used spinosad like week 1 or 2 and failed testing after harvest

waterproof808 said:

spinosad will remain in plant tissues for a while. heard several growers who said they used spinosad like week 1 or 2 and failed testing after harvest

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I really wish there was some scientific evidence behind the ban especially after 6 weeks. And yet it’s approved fir tobacco 3 days before harvest.

PizzaBob said:

So I’m really confused that it’s ok for tobacco but not rec weed. Been searching all day as to WHY and just keep getting the same BS circular reasoning. Any one know of some real science to point to one way or another? And they have azadarachtin approved but not Spinosad. Thanks in advance.

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Great question!!! I've been wondering the same thing. A couple years ago I recommended using Sinosad to my buddy who runs/owns a disop. He immediately told me its not authorized for use in MT. So I looked at the Colorado " Pesticide Use in Cannabis Production Information " which is what I use as a reference for sprays. I too was surprised it wasn't listed in Colorado either. While things like neem, pyrethrin , mineral oils, etc etc etc are.

So yeah, like you, WHY? Great question..

I used sticky traps beside my outside girls this summer , I caught millions.
Also leave a sticky hanging in my tents to catch any flyers.
I don't have much trouble with white flies inside, but the 2 spotted mites will rip you a new one.

I finished a flower girl with mites, Sprayed with cold water everyday fan dried her and put back in tent. No pesticides but allot work.

I’ve used spinosad in early flowering to get rid of spider mites before, and blasted my veg tent with it multiple times to get rid of thrips. It doesn’t interact with lights and it didn’t affect the bud quality at all. Here’s a plant actually turned out totally fire despite spider mites and a couple spinosad blasts in weeks 3 and 4 of flowering. So my thing about spinosad is that even though it’s detectable it’s totally harmless and natural. Completely non-toxic to everything but certain invertebrates. I prefer when I don’t get pests and can use nothing at all except biocontrol, but there was a perlite shortage this summer and a bag of soil from Lowe’s brought in thrips and spider mites. Usually I just have to deal with fungus gnats. I just started using Bt for those because sticky traps alone don’t cut it with organic.
The plant did suffer a bit in the end from the spider mites. Faded yellow a little early and the yield might have suffered a bit but I still pulled over 3 zips off her. Here’s what the clone I have flowering looks like now, nearing the end of week 6. The original plant that got spider mites was already starting to fade a bit at this point. I’m proud to say this cut has been grown 100% organic and pesticide free.

Burt Hooter said:

I finished a flower girl with mites, Sprayed with cold water everyday fan dried her and put back in tent. No pesticides but allot work.

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Isopropyl Alcohol diluted to 60% kills spider mites.

Not a lot of growers know this. It's amazing really considering the value of crops and the issues with testing, but if used properly will completely destroy them, and at a strength which doesn't kill the plant.

PizzaBob said:

So I’m really confused that it’s ok for tobacco but not rec weed. Been searching all day as to WHY and just keep getting the same BS circular reasoning. Any one know of some real science to point to one way or another? And they have azadarachtin approved but not Spinosad. Thanks in advance.

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At 2000mg injected in to rabbits skin there was a mortality rate of 50% is why.