Question about a new alternative to Roots Organic for supersoil base!

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mages

Well-Known Member
Sanctuary Soil and Feed makes a soil, Empire Builder and ingredients are as follows:

Coco Coir, Sphagnum Peat, Worm Castings, Composted Forest Humus, Coco Chunk, Lava Rock, Pumice, Perlite, Gypsum, Rock Phosphate, Langbeinite, Sea Bird and Bat Guano, Fish Bonemeal, Feather Meal, Bonemeal, Limestone, Greensand, Alfalfa Meal, Kelp Meal, Glacial Rock Dust, Azomite, Lignite, Soybean Meal, Rice Bran, Copper Sulphate, Zinc Sulphate, Manganese Sulfate, Potassium Sulfate

My question is should I mix the other ingredients in to the supersoil as a diluted ratio, or at full strength? This stuff seems to have everything! It was a bit pricey at 15.99 for 2cuf but it seems awesome...
 
topcat

topcat

Well-Known Member
I was looking at Empire Builder also, it's list of ingredients is impressive. If you want to make concentrated super soil, then yes, use this as the base. However, I think you could finish a grow with just Empire Builder and teas. I was quoted $18/bag, so you're getting a pretty good deal. I needed 6 yards so I had an amended compost/clean soil product delivered and I'll add to it myself. At $109/yard plus delivery and a 15 yard minimum, I couldn't justify the Empire Builder
But for 6 plants or so, it would save time and labor. I have the time now and I like getting dirty.
 
M

mages

Well-Known Member
topcat said:
I was looking at Empire Builder also, it's list of ingredients is impressive. If you want to make concentrated super soil, then yes, use this as the base. However, I think you could finish a grow with just Empire Builder and teas. I was quoted $18/bag, so you're getting a pretty good deal. I needed 6 yards so I had an amended compost/clean soil product delivered and I'll add to it myself. At $109/yard plus delivery and a 15 yard minimum, I couldn't justify the Empire Builder
But for 6 plants or so, it would save time and labor. I have the time now and I like getting dirty.
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So you suggest mixing in the full 5lbs of blood meal, guano etc? This is just my second time making super soil and this stuff looks superior to roots organic. Don't want to burn anything.
 
InfidelUniversity

InfidelUniversity

Active Member
i have seen a single grow test in late veg with straight roots og vs empire....Size was similar but the empire plant was strating to show deficiences before roots. That was just one plant type so more testing on different type plants would be better.
 
topcat

topcat

Well-Known Member
I didn't, I made my first batch of super soil this year with Kellog's Patio Plus. I think EB would be overkill. I would be concerned of burning, too. I'll use empire without super soil in a comparison test with the compost/soil mix with ss in containers outdoors.
 
<Grasshopper>

<Grasshopper>

Active Member
Sincer the Roots soil has been too hot and full of thirps I have tried happyfrog for my base soil. Now I already had my supersaoil made with roots so the happyfrog was just used for 3 weeks in a 1 gallon pot and then when I transplanted into the finishing pot with supersoil I topped off with happyfrog. What a huge improvement over the roots organic. I am gonna bet I get 6 ounces off of one plant this grow compared to 3 - 4 with roots. The plants are 1/3 bigger with much t6hicker cola stems and the stocks are really really nice and thick. Try it...its pretty cheap...happy frog soil.

If subcool gets his soil out my way I will give it a good run. Subcool....if ya happen across this thread...are you gonna have your new soil in Vancouver Washington?
 
RawBudzski

RawBudzski

Well-Known Member
I used Happy Frog & FFOF together to make my supersoil. So far so good & am surprised how easy it was on the plants, I feel it would not burn if planted straight into my ss. Though I won't do that. :)
 
kushking42

kushking42

Well-Known Member
from what ive seen the happy frog has more nutes in it than than roots. i have some side by sides currently growing and the plants in happy frog look better. could just be better composted or more balanced though. gonna try black gold as a base: 2 cu ft bags organic, for 10 bucks a piece, wholesale.
 
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mages

Well-Known Member
I have used fox farm and roots, pro mix etc, been growing 10+ yrs. My original question was should I mix the amendment's into the supersoil at a diluted ratio or at full strength because the sanctuary soil has so many amendments already, I don't want to put 5lbs of guano, blood meal etc into this if its going to burn them. This soil seems way better than roots or fox farm
 
nugbuckets

nugbuckets

Well-Known Member
...hey guys, be aware that just because a base soil has more "stuff" in it, does not make it better than anything else...in many cases less is better.....the only way to find out is through testing....mix it, and run a small test run......that is why TGA's research and time spent testing on super soil, and the new TGA soil is so valuable to the community.....soil can be a very delicate balance.........for example....i am running a base soil made by the Amish folk, and i was able to get a chemical analysis.....but even with that, testing must be done to see how it performs.......good luck! nugs

p.s. imho, i think a good control is to run three or four different base soils side by side with the same strain, this works the best with clones obviously......water only, it will give you a clear picture of what you are starting with in a base in relation to one another....it can also be extremely valuable for the realization of "less is best" in many cases......peace
 
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moreseeds4me

Member
yo mages, if i were you, I would mix in the ammendments that the supersoil recipe call for, not dillute it. I personally haven't been growing as long as you have, got about 3 years under my belt, but during this whole time i have done several experiments with ammending my own soil as well as trying several different base soils. Ive tried FF Ocean Forest, Roots Organics, Happy Frog, biobizz coco, promix coco, and I have also tried mixing them together at various ratios. I also have been making a concentrated soil, just like supersoil, trying different base soils and adding all the ammendments for about 2 years. From what i understand is, you are afraid that your new base soil has too many nutrients to add the ammendments at full strength. However, the roots organics has most of the ingredients you listed above, and if you use the supersoil properly you shouldnt have any worries. If anything, maybe go with a little less concentrate in the bottom of your pots and see if it fades early. For example, if you are growing Querkle, with Roots Organics based supersoil you would use approximately 20% supersoil concentrate in the bottom of the pot, filling the rest with un-ammended base soil. Then if you are working with a new base soil that you worry may be too hot, go with like 10-15% concentrate in the bottom of your pot, and if it fades too soon add more the next time. Just one more thing i'd like to point out, Ive got a buddy still using Roots Organics, and it has been on the hot side lately, its been known to burn seedlings or freshly rooted clones. If some hot-ass roots organics isnt burning the strains you run, i doubt your new base soil will. Peace n pot.
 
M

mages

Well-Known Member
moreseeds4me said:
yo mages, if i were you, I would mix in the ammendments that the supersoil recipe call for, not dillute it. I personally haven't been growing as long as you have, got about 3 years under my belt, but during this whole time i have done several experiments with ammending my own soil as well as trying several different base soils. Ive tried FF Ocean Forest, Roots Organics, Happy Frog, biobizz coco, promix coco, and I have also tried mixing them together at various ratios. I also have been making a concentrated soil, just like supersoil, trying different base soils and adding all the ammendments for about 2 years. From what i understand is, you are afraid that your new base soil has too many nutrients to add the ammendments at full strength. However, the roots organics has most of the ingredients you listed above, and if you use the supersoil properly you shouldnt have any worries. If anything, maybe go with a little less concentrate in the bottom of your pots and see if it fades early. For example, if you are growing Querkle, with Roots Organics based supersoil you would use approximately 20% supersoil concentrate in the bottom of the pot, filling the rest with un-ammended base soil. Then if you are working with a new base soil that you worry may be too hot, go with like 10-15% concentrate in the bottom of your pot, and if it fades too soon add more the next time. Just one more thing i'd like to point out, Ive got a buddy still using Roots Organics, and it has been on the hot side lately, its been known to burn seedlings or freshly rooted clones. If some hot-ass roots organics isnt burning the strains you run, i doubt your new base soil will. Peace n pot.
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Thanks for the feedback, I actually did just what you recommended already....figured since it's new I need to do the test myself. Doing mostly medium to heavy feeders so I don't think its going to be a problem. Have several plants in just the sanctuary soil by itself in flower right now and they look great, can't wait till the super soil is ready.
 
R

rleezx

Active Member
please update us as I have been using the EB and wanted to make super soil with it as a base too
 
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