Question about the potency of marijuana... slightly confused here

ziggaro said:

CBD is what you want for knockout/pain killing stuff. If you want some "go do something" then you want a higher thc to cbd ratio

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No offense but there are new high CBD sativas. CBD doesnt always mean knockout. go look it up CBD and dutch passion teamed up for a skunk haze cbd. royal queen just came out with two new high CBD strains.

if u want a heavy indica high... like total killer stuff. look at pre98 bubba, la con, tora bora, la affie. i know that the la affie and pre98bubba are about the ultimate in nearly pure indica these days. the real bubba is hard to find tho.

i had a Nirvana Medusa plant that was very heavily indica. it grew slow like a bubba, and had no stretch hardly at all even under a nice 600. It yielded rock hard nugs, it actually weighed quite a bit because of it. the high was total night time meds. super good for insomnia, muscle relaxing, etc etc.

Medusa is a similar strain to white rhino. it somehow is related to white widow, but its more indica. medusa is supposed to be an IBL of the strain "Misty"

last night when i was going to bed i happened to remeber this and thought id recommed the Nirvana medusa. its even advertised as being named that because it turns people to stone.

i know it sounds like im being Nirvana biased too, but, i actually have a ton of different gear from different breeders. im just giving you my opinions based off of my OWN experiences.

I would love to try one of the new High Cbd strains. I was in an accident back in august, and can't use my right arm still, I'd love a strain that was actually supposed to be for painkilling. My WW is pretty good, so I can't complain, but would be neat to see the differance. Night time meds is really what I could use. The WW is great during the day, but at night sometimes it actually seems to keep me awake.

Thundercat said:

I would love to try one of the new High Cbd strains. I was in an accident back in august, and can't use my right arm still, I'd love a strain that was actually supposed to be for painkilling. My WW is pretty good, so I can't complain, but would be neat to see the differance. Night time meds is really what I could use. The WW is great during the day, but at night sometimes it actually seems to keep me awake.

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WW? white widow? wonder woman? both are very common here.
im geussing white widow due to the op

try the medusa maybe thundercat. its a cheap buy too from nirvanashop. versus shelling out at least $120 bucks for a pack of la con/affie or pre98 bubba.

they also have a snow white strain that is heavily indica, and a white widow hybrid. ive been wanting to try it, i have all of their other white widow hybrids. white castle kicks butt too, but there are some sativa phenos in that.

I was talking about white widow sorry. I was thinking after reading your post I might have to get that medusa, I like the sounds of a good night time smoke. Like tonight my back is busting from leanig over my grow for a couple hours today, and I could use some real pain killer weed. Fck this morphine I'm on the weed seriously seems to help just as much.

im an ex opiate addict. we are soooo on the same page here. iv morphine all summer long.

White Rhino blew my brain away. I'm still searching for it 3 years later... Unbelievable stuff! But the stuff I had wasn't GHS it was Nirvana's WR.

I'm off the iv stuff only had that in the hospital, but I've been on time release pills since august. I've already asked them to phase me down once, I'm hoping to only be on it another 1-2 months max. I suppose that will depend on how bad I'm still hurting at that point, and possibly on what any of my new strains can do for me. I've got about 3 new strains I just put in the trays for the first time, and another 3 I'm in the process of germinating and sprouting. I'm hoping I find some keepers to go along with my Widow. I really feel like I got lucky with that one, it was a single freebie seed I got that started it all.

hsfkush said:

White Rhino blew my brain away. I'm still searching for it 3 years later... Unbelievable stuff! But the stuff I had wasn't GHS it was Nirvana's WR.

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i have noticed the new seed i popped, which is the sour, smells an awful lot like my white castle that i grew last year. that thing was a monster yeilder. so i hope its more indica and maybe even better smoke.

The medusa i had was bomb. i still got 8 fem seeds so i plan on trying it again soon, maybe even breeding it out if i find that nice heavy indica pheno again.
i bought two packs i was so happy with it. and it doesnt get enough props cuz people dont grow it right. u gotta do proper leaf removal and all. mine had a great bud/leaf ratio tho. the taste was heavy metallic and slightly sweet. like an earthy sweetness kinda, but with out that mossy-ness.

Thundercat said:

I'm off the iv stuff only had that in the hospital, but I've been on time release pills since august. I've already asked them to phase me down once, I'm hoping to only be on it another 1-2 months max. I suppose that will depend on how bad I'm still hurting at that point, and possibly on what any of my new strains can do for me. I've got about 3 new strains I just put in the trays for the first time, and another 3 I'm in the process of germinating and sprouting. I'm hoping I find some keepers to go along with my Widow. I really feel like I got lucky with that one, it was a single freebie seed I got that started it all.

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Nice! good luck with those. yeah i have some freeze cheese 89 thats a freebie thats looking like heavy indica meds too. we shall see how it turns out tho, i dont like to get too far into talking about what i dont really have some exp with and this one is new.

Im so sry to hear about having to be on morphine. thankfully oral is much easier to get off of than iv. and it sounds like your not abusing them, like iv'ng the pills, which is very bad to do.
Lets hope your new strains will be some great stuff! i know ive got a ton of stuff i need to use. im bad for not wanting to get rid of anything too and i just keep too many clones to start the damn seeds. lol

Breeder's Boutique is an AMAZING place to buy new strains and pick up some clone only hybrids that you CAN NOT find anywhere else. their DPQ is fire from what i see, and many others as well. i just started 4 psycho killers. jack the ripper x (exodus psychosis x deep purple). they are regs so ill have to see what i get out of the 4, but im sure its fire! my girl wanted them real bad, so i planted those first out of the four strains i got from them just recently.

kermit2692 said:

also this seems relevant...ive heard that back in the day the average thc content being around 6 percent or ten or whatever was actually the whole bud ground up and tested so 6 percent of the total weight was thc where as now they got smart and are testing extracts or kief so the thc percentages havent gone up by more than double but instead the other matter in the test has been reduced to show a higher thc percentage..so it may be that some companies are doing it old school and coming in at around 13 percent and then another guy with the same thc content gets his tested without green matter and shows a 23 percent thc content.....idk the validity of this but remember i saw it somewhere where i was prone to believe it...

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OK, you're asking about testing, and this is complicated; beyond the ability to answer well in a few lines in a quick post: But briefly:

-There is no regulation/certification of cannabis testing labs, say the way there is with medical labs. Some labs are bad, and there is an incentive for both the lab and the consumer of the lab's services to want as high a number as possible. So in general numbers tend to skew upwards.

-How testing is done is variable; the same exact SAMPLE tested at different labs can yield different results, in some cases considerably different. EG: Some labs report THC as a percentage of sample weight, others as a percentage of dry weight. So even between samples tested at different GOOD labs, you have to compare different numbers with a big grain of salt.

-Many seed sellers pull their reported THC numbers right out of their butts. You should be highly skeptical of any listed number by a seed-seller, ESPECIALLY if they haven't posted a third party lab report to back it.

-Even the same strain can yield a fairly wide range of THC numbers depending on pheno, grow conditions, when its harvested, when and how its tested.

-Comparing testing from 20-30 years ago to testing today isn't really appropriate. Not only are test methods different today, but back then testing was almost exclusively done by gov't or research agencies, who were testing confiscated samples with stems, leaves, and seeds. Today most testing is done by vendors on highly manicured top seedless buds only.

If you take the better lines from 20+ years ago, grow them seedlessly, trim them appropriately and test them today, a lot of them DO hold up in terms of potency. For example, in my sig you can see a test report of some Williams Wonder grow out from 20+ year old seeds that just tested in at 25% total cannabinoids, making it comparable to many of the potent "kush" strains of today.

On the original question about potency, the MAIN determinant of potency, obviously, is the quantity of cannabinoids in what you're smoking (ie how much THC, etc).

But the RATIOS of cannabinoids are what determine the QUALITY of the effect. For example strains that have significant amounts of CBD to go with their THC are going to feel much more "stoney" and can feel subjectively much more potent than strains with no CBD and higher THC levels. Its these different ratios that separate so called "indicas" from "sativas" and explain why different strains subjectively affect people differently.

Rare D MI said:

You are just wrong.

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oook well your welcome to clarify instead of just telling me im plain wrong. the bottom line is when using percentages instead of exact measurements it is always easy to skew the results by pulling out as much of one material to raise the percentage of another material..jogro seems to think the old average 8 percentish thc tests were in part due to inferior samples with seed and stem (thats what i took from part of his post) which i believe was part of what i said maybe they arent using kief or extracts to raise the percentage but something is going on here because i refuse to believe that marijuana in the last 20 years has become twice as potent lol thats just ridiculous...to think no company out there is doctoring their samples in the way of removing seed and stem or removing more leaf than normal or selecting only choice nugs and so on is straight naive. so lets have it straight from a seed company, what do you guys do? why such variation in percentages? why does the total percentage of cannibinoids sometimes not seem to come into play in the high (and i didnt say thc i said cannibinoids in all)?? you guys were founded in 2010 and have had over 20 strains what are you batting like a new strain every month then lol so i mean you should have some answers instead of just criticism

kermit2692 said:

jogro seems to think the old average 8 percentish thc tests were in part due to inferior samples with seed and stem (thats what i took from part of his post)

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I'm not sure exactly where this 8% number is coming from, if you want to do a comparison, you have to define exactly what you're comparing.

If you're talking about then vs now, even if we stipulate that the testing is the same (which it isn't), the PRODUCTS are totally different. Before the late 1980s, the "standard" was outdoor grown seeded smuggled weed. Today its indoor grown, hand-manicured seedless top buds only, from strains usually selected for potency. So yes, the average bud available in many places today really *IS* a lot stronger than the average bud from years ago, even if the plants themselves aren't necessarily better today.

Again, the subject of testing is complicated. Remember, labs test SAMPLES, they don't test "strains".

So what comprises a sample makes all the difference. A non-chemically processed sample from the SAME EXACT PLANT could range from 0-55% THC, depending on what the sample is. Are you testing fresh totally dry hand-trimmed top buds picked at their absolute peak? Are you testing the same buds after they've sat in a shelf at room temperature for 8-9 months? Are you testing an "average" bud from the plant (not the absolute best bud). Are you testing dry rubbed hash or water hash made from the plant? Is your test looking at just THC, or are you counting other cannabinoids too? Etc.

At best, published numbers for strains represent the sort of best possible result from a given line, assuming optimum grow and trim.

which i believe was part of what i said maybe they arent using kief or extracts to raise the percentage but something is going on here because i refuse to believe that marijuana in the last 20 years has become twice as potent lol thats just ridiculous...to think no company out there is doctoring their samples in the way of removing seed and stem or removing more leaf than normal or selecting only choice nugs and so on is straight naive.

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First of all, since there is no regulation of the cannabis ceed industry, sellers can basically make any claim they like, and I can state for a fact that at least some of the published number sellers claim are pure BS. There is no need for sellers to doctor samples, when they can just doctor their published numbers!

But assuming good-faith testing, not only has the nature of the samples changed, but the nature of testing has totally changed. 25 years ago, the only ones assaying cannabis were gov't agencies. Today, individual growers and breeders can pay for high-quality third party testing of their product, and most testing is of that nature.

Ultimately, this question is really two different questions:

-Are PLANTS (ie genetics) better today than 20 years ago? and
-Is the product (ie buds) better today than 20 years ago.

For the second thing, I've already answered. Yes, of course expensive hand trimmed specially selected indoor medical grade cannabis of today is stronger than the average commercial grade schwagg from 30 years ago. The marketplace has changed, and so has the product.

On the first question, about genetics, I think there is some room for debate there.

After looking at this issue pretty carefully, in my opinion the BEST of the strains from 20 years ago were nearly as good, if not absolutely as good as the best stuff from today. If you take the best of the "name" strains from the late 80s and early 90s, grow, trim, cure, and test them side by side with the stuff from today, they hold up. The biggest difference today is that top level genetics are much more readily available today, and more people than ever are growing them.

Anyway, there is a lot of good discussion on today's vs yesterday's weed in this thread. Here are some links to a few of my posts in there:


https://www.rollitup.org/seed-strain-reviews/526096-screw-good-ol-days-11.html#post8324101
https://www.rollitup.org/seed-strain-reviews/526096-screw-good-ol-days-11.html#post8324170
https://www.rollitup.org/seed-strain-reviews/526096-screw-good-ol-days-12.html#post8325355
https://www.rollitup.org/seed-strain-reviews/526096-screw-good-ol-days-14.html#post8342579

What was the white castle I'm not familiar.

One of the new stains I just put into 12/12 was a gift from a friend in NY. I guess he couldn't remember the exact name, was strawberry something(I'm hoping cough). But since I'll never really know I've been calling it NY strawberry. I'm really excited about it, it seems to be a really nice hybrid, leaves are a little fatter then my WW, about the same as the bubba kush I have. The node spacing is what has me excited though seems like its going to stack buds like a dream. Its about 14 inchs tall, and all the branchs the whole way down are only about 1-2 inchs long with 2 nodes each minimum. I'm prolly only gonna get 2-3 clones off the bottom of it, but if it finishes nice, one of those will surely become a mom.

White caste is nirvana's Ice x White widow.

give the thc arguements a rest guys. we all know its not a perfected science atm. and technically anyone can lie about any thc % as there is no way to "fact check" it so to speak. i pay zero attention to THC%. u can typically get the general idea if a strain is strong or mild w/o too much crazy background info. i mean EVERY single cloned plant even tho the same thing is gonna produce buds that test differently.

maybe its that east coast strawberry sour d thats goin around in that area. ive heard it called mass SSD too. either way gotta love local fav's! thats how i got my grape ape.

you want a good example about the THC %?? --> a few weeks back, a local dispensary(known for being one of the best in the area) had a few different strains available. the list the thc % from testing on all of them. the highest THC out of all of the strains they had: not the white widow, og hybrids, etc. that they had. instead it was Early Pearl. a strain absolutely not known for producing a high thc, or powerful buzz. but they wanted more $ for it and everything.
my friends and i have noticed thc % doesnt = how high u get. nor does CBD. its a combination of things.

hell THCV has been concidered to be very important as of the past few years... i dont see that being discussed very much. only certain strains even produce it. africans seem to be the easiest to find it in.

Jogro said:

OK, you're asking about testing, and this is complicated; beyond the ability to answer well in a few lines in a quick post: But briefly:

-There is no regulation/certification of cannabis testing labs, say the way there is with medical labs. Some labs are bad, and there is an incentive for both the lab and the consumer of the lab's services to want as high a number as possible. So in general numbers tend to skew upwards.

-How testing is done is variable; the same exact SAMPLE tested at different labs can yield different results, in some cases considerably different. EG: Some labs report THC as a percentage of sample weight, others as a percentage of dry weight. So even between samples tested at different GOOD labs, you have to compare different numbers with a big grain of salt.

-Many seed sellers pull their reported THC numbers right out of their butts. You should be highly skeptical of any listed number by a seed-seller, ESPECIALLY if they haven't posted a third party lab report to back it.

-Even the same strain can yield a fairly wide range of THC numbers depending on pheno, grow conditions, when its harvested, when and how its tested.

-Comparing testing from 20-30 years ago to testing today isn't really appropriate. Not only are test methods different today, but back then testing was almost exclusively done by gov't or research agencies, who were testing confiscated samples with stems, leaves, and seeds. Today most testing is done by vendors on highly manicured top seedless buds only.

If you take the better lines from 20+ years ago, grow them seedlessly, trim them appropriately and test them today, a lot of them DO hold up in terms of potency. For example, in my sig you can see a test report of some Williams Wonder grow out from 20+ year old seeds that just tested in at 25% total cannabinoids, making it comparable to many of the potent "kush" strains of today.

On the original question about potency, the MAIN determinant of potency, obviously, is the quantity of cannabinoids in what you're smoking (ie how much THC, etc).

But the RATIOS of cannabinoids are what determine the QUALITY of the effect. For example strains that have significant amounts of CBD to go with their THC are going to feel much more "stoney" and can feel subjectively much more potent than strains with no CBD and higher THC levels. Its these different ratios that separate so called "indicas" from "sativas" and explain why different strains subjectively affect people differently.

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good post for the most part. the last part is wrong tho.

sativas can have VERY high CBD's. it DOESNT make them stoney/couchlock. New sativa CBD hybrids are poppin up all over. just saying.


CBD is not a deciding factor in seperating indica from sativa.