Question for Canadian Growers (Hydro bill tipping off police)

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gliese581g

Member
Just read this article: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2012/03/02/bc-fishgrowop.html

Now, I live in the Toronto area where grow ops are not nearly as common as they are in BC, but this still got me thinking.

My hydro bill is now up to 4500 kWh consumed over a 60 day period. I don't expect it to increase any more than this as I have now really expanded as much as I can in the space that I occupy.

I am in a large 1 bedroom apartment. 2250 kWh a month is high, but is it high enough to raise suspicion? Fortunately, I have experience quickly dismantling my grow so I would probably be fine with 48 hours notice. I have two 1000watters (12/12 for both), two 600w (12/12 for both) and one 400w (18/6). I haven't changed the electrical wiring at all and don't overload the circuits (I just have a lot of extension cords so everything is on a diff fuse).

Does anyone know if Toronto Hydro is running a similar program? I really doubt it but I'd like to know. And do you think 2500-3000 kWH a month for a 1 bedroom apartment is suspicious?

Thanks
 
RollupRick

RollupRick

Active Member
Not sure about Canada, but here (UK) its not really a method used by the police, maybe sometimes, but not as routine. The data protection act means police would probably need 'due cause to suspect' in order to access that information about you, being a police officer doesn't mean you can just wander in and access anything they want about you. Well they probably could, but if they don't stay above board they wouldn't be able to use it as evidence in a court. I could be completely wrong about that, but am pretty sure its at least half right (lol, sorry am wasted).

These days everyones energy needs are spiking and all over the shop with so many gadgets, tv's, more gadgets, lights, computers etc, so I wouldn't worry too much about it. As long as you don't give any other reason to think you're growing, you'll be fine.
 
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gliese581g

Member
So 2500-3000 kWh a month in electrical consumption will not, by itself, create suspicion? Anyone else out here use this amount or more without issue?
 
2easy

2easy

Well-Known Member
i dunno but my bill jumped from $400 every 3 months to $1250 every 3 mths and nobody came knocking on my door. different country though. the way i see some people run air con all day all yr round. some people dry all there clothes in a dryer, some people have multiple computers, other people run welders and have large shed swith hid lighting that they run work from home businesses from. if they went around knocking on everydoor that had a high bill they wouldnt have much time for anything else and i doubt he effort would pay off
 
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UnfusedGrowth

Member
I'm a lineman for a utility in Northern Ontario, Canada and I've seen some bills and some setups in the past. I've done disconnects and reconnects for houses that had or have growing operations in them. The police don't get your electrical information unless they come and ask for it. We don't moniter your power consumtions, especially not with the new smart meters. It's all done by computers now. Most people don't even get bills in the mail anymore it is all going e-bill now.

Basically what I'm saying is, we don't sit at a table going through every bill and anything high we send to the police. We will however hand any information the police ask for over to them no questions asked.

I've heard of people's electricity bills skyrocketing because they once used natural gas to heat their house and decided they wanted everything on one bill so they switched to electric heat. That will put your bill up dramatically (especially if you like it warm).

You are fine unless they suspect something.

Now that I think about it. We did have this one customer go from a bill of about 218$ a month to about 1000$/m then to about 3000$/m then to about 11000$/m. That one we reported. :P Keep it logical and you will be fine. I hope that helps.

And no, 2000 - 3000kw/h a month isn't that big of a deal. You wouldn't even show up as more then a light user on our screen if we looked you up. :)


(Added)
Like one of the above people mentioned, we don't just give out your information to police unless they have some order telling us to do so.


Unfused~
 
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gliese581g

Member
UnfusedGrowth said:
I'm a lineman for a utility in Northern Ontario, Canada and I've seen some bills and some setups in the past. I've done disconnects and reconnects for houses that had or have growing operations in them. The police don't get your electrical information unless they come and ask for it. We don't moniter your power consumtions, especially not with the new smart meters. It's all done by computers now. Most people don't even get bills in the mail anymore it is all going e-bill now.

Basically what I'm saying is, we don't sit at a table going through every bill and anything high we send to the police. We will however hand any information the police ask for over to them no questions asked.

I've heard of people's electricity bills skyrocketing because they once used natural gas to heat their house and decided they wanted everything on one bill so they switched to electric heat. That will put your bill up dramatically (especially if you like it warm).

You are fine unless they suspect something.

Now that I think about it. We did have this one customer go from a bill of about 218$ a month to about 1000$/m then to about 3000$/m then to about 11000$/m. That one we reported. :P Keep it logical and you will be fine. I hope that helps.

And no, 2000 - 3000kw/h a month isn't that big of a deal. You wouldn't even show up as more then a light user on our screen if we looked you up. :)


(Added)
Like one of the above people mentioned, we don't just give out your information to police unless they have some order telling us to do so.


Unfused~
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Thanks so much. Exactly the response I was looking for.
 
GODOFBUD

GODOFBUD

Well-Known Member
K know I have a buddie that is a legal grower he harvests I dunno maybe 250 plants a month his power bill is over 2200 a month(form what I've seen anyway) and no cops have been knocking on his door no cops driving around the house so do you think the cops have notified health Canada already because I figured there should have been a few red flags already or do you think the cops are going to kick**his doors In After there shitty little 6month investigation
 
Guerilla Gardener

Guerilla Gardener

Active Member
In Canada it is illegal for the police to use any electrical consumption against you in evidence for a warrant. HOWEVER, once the warrant to search and seize is issued, the police CAN go to the utility companies for this information to strengthen their case before kicking in door.
 
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UnfusedGrowth

Member
Guerilla Gardener said:
In Canada it is illegal for the police to use any electrical consumption against you in evidence for a warrant. HOWEVER, once the warrant to search and seize is issued, the police CAN go to the utility companies for this information to strengthen their case before kicking in door.
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Yeah, because they can't get it from us (the utility) until they have brought us the warrant. But even then, It is one of the last things they will use as evidence due to the fact that it is worth little as proof. They will only use your electricity bill if their they absolutely need it for their case. If that is what is happening they have a pretty shitty case against you in the first place.
 
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gliese581g

Member
Unfused,

What is your response to this article:

Do you think there were other factors that led to the warrant that the article is just neglecting to mention: http://www.torontolife.com/daily/informer/from-print-edition-informer/2011/01/19/gone-to-pot-the-story-behind-toronto’s-100-million-marijuana-economy/

Tran was betrayed by his electricity bills. Staff at Toronto Hydro noticed his house was using five times the power of others on the street and notified the cops. Officers from the drug squad arrived with a search warrant at 11 p.m. one day in late January 2007 and found what they considered an impressive grow op.​
Click to expand...

My thinking is his hydro bill must have grown by like five times overnight and that is suspicious. In my case, I have slowly grown over the last year, adding maybe a light or two every few months. I put the last possible additional light in at the start of this summer, creating another spike, but that makes sense when you factor in air conditioning and the start of the summer.​
 
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UnfusedGrowth

Member
gliese581g said:
Unfused,

What is your response to this article:

Do you think there were other factors that led to the warrant that the article is just neglecting to mention: http://www.torontolife.com/daily/informer/from-print-edition-informer/2011/01/19/gone-to-pot-the-story-behind-toronto%E2%80%99s-100-million-marijuana-economy/


My thinking is his hydro bill must have grown by like five times overnight and that is suspicious. In my case, I have slowly grown over the last year, adding maybe a light or two every few months. I put the last possible additional light in at the start of this summer, creating another spike, but that makes sense when you factor in air conditioning and the start of the summer.​
Click to expand...
I reckon there are exceptions to everything. However I strongly believe there is way more to it then that. Police likely had the utility look into it and that gave the police enough for reasonable cause for entry.
 
RollupRick

RollupRick

Active Member
Yeah but it also goes to show that its important to be smart, and within your means to remain stealthy. If your average bill is 1000 kWh for example sake, and overnight that jumps to 5,000 kWh, then that is suspicious. And if you spike that high overnight, then you're not thinking hard enough to stay safe.

Even if the police do look through the records (just if), and they suspect you of growing, they're still not likely to do much if you're growing a bit of personal - its always the industrial/big growers they'd rather invest resources in busting. If you start growing more than your practical means to argue a case, have the self awareness to realise it and tweak accordingly etc. If you're running 50 plants, its hard to explain that as personal.
 
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gliese581g

Member
UnfusedGrowth said:
I reckon there are exceptions to everything. However I strongly believe there is way more to it then that. Police likely had the utility look into it and that gave the police enough for reasonable cause for entry.
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Thanks everyone. I've put in a call to Toronto Hydro's Privacy Office from an anon number.

I am going to find out whether they will actually notify the authorities unprompted over high hydro bills, as the article I posted suggests. So far, I have been told that they only share that information if provided with a warrant, but this was from an entry level customer service rep. I am waiting to hear back from a higher up.

Like others have said, I don't think the article has all the facts straight but I'm curious. I actually even went so far as to look up the judgement against this guy. In her overview of the facts, the judge never mentions the police being notified over high hydro bills.

I will report a summary of my findings for the benefit of future Toronto-area growers looking into this.
 
Doobius1

Doobius1

Well-Known Member
This is a program put in place by Mission BC officials. Toronto Hydro does not have this program in effect. Pay your bill on time and no one pays attention. I was former meter reader and there are so many reasons for high usage from hot tubs, pools, a/c that no one at the hydro office pays attention. Just pay your bill on time and quit being so paranoid... Stress will kill ya
 
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gliese581g

Member
Doobius1 said:
This is a program put in place by Mission BC officials. Toronto Hydro does not have this program in effect. Pay your bill on time and no one pays attention. I was former meter reader and there are so many reasons for high usage from hot tubs, pools, a/c that no one at the hydro office pays attention. Just pay your bill on time and quit being so paranoid... Stress will kill ya
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I'll take your advice. It's easy to get fixated on this stuff. I just don't want to go to jail, and, thanks to Mr. Harper, there is no way around it if I get busted since I have more than five plants.

I'll feel a lot better once we kick the Conservatives out and repeal their retrograde 'anti-crime' legislation.
 
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