Recycled Organic Living Soil (ROLS) and No Till Thread
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dl290485
Well-Known Member
lol it's not so easy to 'make the environment inhospitable'
I live in a sub-tropical region of Australia. I looked up what temperature I have to get it under: 18'c... right now it's coming into winter (or is? I always forget the months seasons start) and the current temperature according to google is 17 C... at 12:38am..... so ya, I would have to be running a frickin air conditioner right now to get it 'inhospitable' for the mites, and when the sun rises, my portable air con will be hard pressed to get the temperature under 20'c. I thought about doing it but then I thought about my power bill.
I found some neem oil online and it's on sale but I can't wait for it to be posted- so I looked around locally and all I could find was a product called Eco-Neem. It's organic certified and is an extract of the principal compounds of Neem oil. I'll keep applying it every 3 days for a while and then weekly until the plants start to bud (still vegging atm). From now on I'll be doing weekly preemptive spraying with this or proper neem oil.
I live in a sub-tropical region of Australia. I looked up what temperature I have to get it under: 18'c... right now it's coming into winter (or is? I always forget the months seasons start) and the current temperature according to google is 17 C... at 12:38am..... so ya, I would have to be running a frickin air conditioner right now to get it 'inhospitable' for the mites, and when the sun rises, my portable air con will be hard pressed to get the temperature under 20'c. I thought about doing it but then I thought about my power bill.
I found some neem oil online and it's on sale but I can't wait for it to be posted- so I looked around locally and all I could find was a product called Eco-Neem. It's organic certified and is an extract of the principal compounds of Neem oil. I'll keep applying it every 3 days for a while and then weekly until the plants start to bud (still vegging atm). From now on I'll be doing weekly preemptive spraying with this or proper neem oil.
NickNasty
Well-Known Member
Get some predator mites. I have always found the best way to get rid of bugs is other bugs. This will work the majority of the time although I have found some instances where this only drops the population down but in those cases its still a lot easier to kill them once the population has decreased a ton then dealing with them when the infestation is full blown. But remember your neem, poison, etc. will kill the good bugs along with the bad so don't use it in conjunction with stuff like that.
Why do all the work when you can get a bug to do it for you?
http://www.naturescontrol.com/mite.html
Why do all the work when you can get a bug to do it for you?
http://www.naturescontrol.com/mite.html
Cann
Well-Known Member
"It's organic certified and is an extract of the principal compounds of Neem oil."
Do you know which compounds it contains in particular? azadirachtin is going to be one of them most likely...
some compounds in neem are more useful than others for their insecticidal benefits. IMO proper neem oil is your best bet...i'd recommend Ahimsa but you probably already know that lol
oh yeah..and if you're looking for predatory mites - hypoaspis miles is your friend
snowboarder396
Well-Known Member
Ok, so squishing earwigs at midnight everynight I get home from work after long shift isn't working to well. Thought there population was going down not as many holes in my leaves now but there still all over. Last night kinda open my zucchini flowers since noticed an earwig trying get in it. There was a whole family of em in just one flower! Don't think the zucchini needs the flower to keep growing so took that flower off the end of that zucchini. I'm thinking they just really like the moisture.. so been looking for another alternative. Was reading up a lot on de which if food grade not pool one is organic and pretty much pure silicia .. fossilized algae. People actually eat it and nix it with water to drink from what read. Also if you eat anhything has wheat or flour in it your eating de as well, as the farmers mix it with their wheat so bugs don't try eat it up. It's also in tooth paste. The way de works is with bugs with exoskeleton shells it shreds them like glass and dehydrates kills them.. no chemicals all physical. Since it's silica it acts like glass shards on the bugs. So what I plan do is lay line around my potted plants to get the earwigs then in the garden bed I made to kill earwigs before transplant. Also use compost teas for garden beds get good microlife going. Only bad thing read on de was the pool kind if inhaling the dust it may cause cancer after several years inhaling because it is cut with other chemicals
Mohican
Well-Known Member
I tried de last year. I even posted a picture of my plant covered in white powder. Made a joke that I was trying cocane powder on my plants to make them grow faster! It didn't seem to slow the earwigs down a bit. My best results were achieved when I used a combination of neem, bt, and sevin.
I have not tried spinosad yet. I hear it works well and is least harmful to beneficial organisms.
Did you try the tuna can with veg oil and a drop of tuna oil? Bury it so the lip of the can is even with the top of the soil.
Cheers,
Mo
I have not tried spinosad yet. I hear it works well and is least harmful to beneficial organisms.
Did you try the tuna can with veg oil and a drop of tuna oil? Bury it so the lip of the can is even with the top of the soil.
Cheers,
Mo
Cann
Well-Known Member
I think DE only works if it stays dry....at least thats my understanding of how it functions as a mechanical insecticide vs. a chemical insecticide.
I have food grade DE that i consume on occasion, and also use for spider control around my garage...good shit for black widows
i'd try neem cake or neem oil..or maybe try to trap them? not sure..
I have food grade DE that i consume on occasion, and also use for spider control around my garage...good shit for black widows
i'd try neem cake or neem oil..or maybe try to trap them? not sure..
snowboarder396
Well-Known Member
Mohican I would maybe try sevin but only if it was for regular yard plants not veggies. Sevin is a chemical pesticide that can be very harmful if ingested . Veggie plants sprayed with it would absorb and therefore you would absorb it as well. And cann your Def. Right de has to be dry to work. If it gets wet it was to be reapplied.. I'll also set out some beer traps but gonna try de as well
Mohican
Well-Known Member
Sevin has been in use for over 40 years without problems. You can use it up until harvest on many veggies. I use it primarily in the first 3 weeks of veg to nuke the nasties. I am a little late this year. After the Sevin, I use neem and BT to maintain the barrier.
Cheers,
Mo
Cheers,
Mo
snowboarder396
Well-Known Member
I don't think sevin would be to good for the good microbes and bugs though. I try to stay away from any kind of pesticides, insecticide, or herbicides. It may be a pain in the Ass sometimes but to me I believe it's worth it
hyroot
Well-Known Member
All you need is compost for that. Especially alsakan humus. Predator mites moult on forest floors and in compost. I've told people this a million times. Bugs don't like compost. Ever since the first time I top dressed with compost. I have not had a single bug.. that was quite a long time ago. Prior to that I would get the occasional spider mites and I had a gnarly gnat infestation. I tried everything under the sun. Nothing worked. By accident I found out compost got rid of them.
Cann
Well-Known Member
if it's only azadirachtin I wouldn't fux with it....there are many many more important compounds in neem when it comes to this sort of thing. why people focus on azadirachtin and isolate it is beyond me....it works in conjunction w/ all the other compounds in neem...but by itself it's not the greatest.
is there anything stopping you from getting some ahimsa neem oil? shit...even the garden safe brand neem is better than just azadirachtin...they sell that @ lowes I think..
hyroot - Alaska humus or ancient forest or any of those deals are actually just peat moss....repackaged, relabeled, and sold at a huge markup. it is not the scrapings from some secret GH forest patch....its peat. definitely not going to have any insect suppression qualities IMO. fresh homemade vermicompost on the other hand....you betcha. my 2cents: never buy a bag of ancient forest again...especially if you are looking for "compost" or something to brew a tea with...if you are looking for concentrated microbial activity you want to go elsewhere...although the ancient forest will have some microbial activity (as much as a bale of premier peat...). homemade vermicompost FTW
is there anything stopping you from getting some ahimsa neem oil? shit...even the garden safe brand neem is better than just azadirachtin...they sell that @ lowes I think..
hyroot - Alaska humus or ancient forest or any of those deals are actually just peat moss....repackaged, relabeled, and sold at a huge markup. it is not the scrapings from some secret GH forest patch....its peat. definitely not going to have any insect suppression qualities IMO. fresh homemade vermicompost on the other hand....you betcha. my 2cents: never buy a bag of ancient forest again...especially if you are looking for "compost" or something to brew a tea with...if you are looking for concentrated microbial activity you want to go elsewhere...although the ancient forest will have some microbial activity (as much as a bale of premier peat...). homemade vermicompost FTW
Cann
Well-Known Member
If you buy a product w/ just azadirachtin - here is what you're missing:
Taken from this article published by the University of Waikato, New Zealand.
"Neem protects itself from the multitude of pests with a multitude of pesticidal ingredients. Its main chemical broadside is a mixture of 3 or 4 related compounds, and it backs these up with 20 or so others that are minor but nonetheless active in one way or another. In the main, these compounds belong to a general class of natural products called "triterpenes"; more specifically, "limonoids."
So far, at least nine neem limonoids have demonstrated an ability to block insect growth, affecting a range of species that includes some of the most deadly pests of agriculture and human health. New limonoids are still being discovered in neem, but Azadirachtin, Salannin, Meliantriol and Nimbin are the best known and, for now at least, seem to be the most significant.
Meliantriol
Another feeding inhibitor, Meliantriol, is able, in extremely low concentrations, to cause insects to cease eating. The demonstration of its ability to prevent locusts chewing on crops was the first scientific proof for neem's traditional use for insect control on India's crops.
Salannin
Yet a third triterpenoid isolated from neem is Salannin. Studies indicate that this compound also powerfully inhibits feeding, but does not influence insect molts. The migratory locust, California red scale, striped cucumber beetle, houseflies, and the Japanese beetle have been strongly deterred in both laboratory and field tests.
Nimbin and Nimbidin
Two more neem components, Nimbin and Nimbidin, have been found to have antiviral activity. They affect potato virus X, vaccinia virus, and fowl pox virus. They could perhaps open a way to control these and other viral diseases of crops and livestock.
Nimbidin is the primary component of the bitter principles obtained when neem seeds are extracted with alcohol. It occurs in sizable quantities - about 2% of the kernel.
Others
Certain minor ingredients also work as antihormones. Research has shown that some of these minor neem chemicals even paralyze the "swallowing mechanism" and so prevent insects from eating. Examples of these newly found limonoids from neem include DeacetylAzadirachtinol. This ingredient, isolated from fresh fruits, appears to be as effective as Azadirachtin in assays against the tobacco budworm, but it has not yet been widely tested in field practice."
This is the reason why products like Azamax and Azatrol often don't work as well as advertised...and why organic high grade neem oii kicks ass! also FWIW ahimsa oil has between 2-3x the active ingredients (limonoids) than garden safe or other non-organic brands. making it even more worthwhile to invest in quality once and never look back...
hope that helps convince you not to buy the eco smart LOL
Taken from this article published by the University of Waikato, New Zealand.
"Neem protects itself from the multitude of pests with a multitude of pesticidal ingredients. Its main chemical broadside is a mixture of 3 or 4 related compounds, and it backs these up with 20 or so others that are minor but nonetheless active in one way or another. In the main, these compounds belong to a general class of natural products called "triterpenes"; more specifically, "limonoids."
So far, at least nine neem limonoids have demonstrated an ability to block insect growth, affecting a range of species that includes some of the most deadly pests of agriculture and human health. New limonoids are still being discovered in neem, but Azadirachtin, Salannin, Meliantriol and Nimbin are the best known and, for now at least, seem to be the most significant.
Meliantriol
Another feeding inhibitor, Meliantriol, is able, in extremely low concentrations, to cause insects to cease eating. The demonstration of its ability to prevent locusts chewing on crops was the first scientific proof for neem's traditional use for insect control on India's crops.
Salannin
Yet a third triterpenoid isolated from neem is Salannin. Studies indicate that this compound also powerfully inhibits feeding, but does not influence insect molts. The migratory locust, California red scale, striped cucumber beetle, houseflies, and the Japanese beetle have been strongly deterred in both laboratory and field tests.
Nimbin and Nimbidin
Two more neem components, Nimbin and Nimbidin, have been found to have antiviral activity. They affect potato virus X, vaccinia virus, and fowl pox virus. They could perhaps open a way to control these and other viral diseases of crops and livestock.
Nimbidin is the primary component of the bitter principles obtained when neem seeds are extracted with alcohol. It occurs in sizable quantities - about 2% of the kernel.
Others
Certain minor ingredients also work as antihormones. Research has shown that some of these minor neem chemicals even paralyze the "swallowing mechanism" and so prevent insects from eating. Examples of these newly found limonoids from neem include DeacetylAzadirachtinol. This ingredient, isolated from fresh fruits, appears to be as effective as Azadirachtin in assays against the tobacco budworm, but it has not yet been widely tested in field practice."
This is the reason why products like Azamax and Azatrol often don't work as well as advertised...and why organic high grade neem oii kicks ass! also FWIW ahimsa oil has between 2-3x the active ingredients (limonoids) than garden safe or other non-organic brands. making it even more worthwhile to invest in quality once and never look back...
hope that helps convince you not to buy the eco smart LOL
hyroot
Well-Known Member
I buy eco scraps. Haven't bought alaskan forest in 2 years. But the alaskan forest is the one that I have seen the most predator mites in. ( red ones). I have my worm bin. But im a couple months from having my own castings. You are definitely wrong about the insect suppression. I have seen first hand in 5 gardens including 2 of my own and 1 shared then 2 others. Compost is the only thing I use. Never used neem meal or neem cake. Will soon though but mostly for the nutes. Last bug spray I bought or used was pure spray green 4 years ago. I occasionally spray neem oil solution on pm but that's it. Zero bugs indoor and outdoor for years thanks to compost. The only store bought compost I have ever used has been eco scraps and ancient forest
dl290485
Well-Known Member
Argh... I didn't want to buy eco-neem... it was just all I could find in my vicinity.... now you made me worried that I wasted my money and It won't fix the problem 
I was planning to get proper neem oil anyway off a website, but now i'll put more haste into that thought.
I was planning to get proper neem oil anyway off a website, but now i'll put more haste into that thought.
Cann
Well-Known Member
www.neemresource.com - you won't be dissapointed. the s&h is worth it for the quality..
i'd still apply the eco-neem for now...might as well now that you bought it eh? unless its unopened..then return that ish!!!
hyroot - ancient forest isn't compost!!! i agree 100% that quality compost or vermicompost can help w/ insect supression (albeit passively compared to things like neem cake) but ancient forest (a.k.a. repackaged peat moss) doesn't confer any insect suppression benefit...at least that I can think of. do you think a topdress of premier peat moss would save a crop from thrips or mites? highly doubtful IMO. vermicompost on the other hand might have a fighting chance...especially if it's homemade and you've been running neem/karanja through the bins...
i'd still apply the eco-neem for now...might as well now that you bought it eh? unless its unopened..then return that ish!!!
hyroot - ancient forest isn't compost!!! i agree 100% that quality compost or vermicompost can help w/ insect supression (albeit passively compared to things like neem cake) but ancient forest (a.k.a. repackaged peat moss) doesn't confer any insect suppression benefit...at least that I can think of. do you think a topdress of premier peat moss would save a crop from thrips or mites? highly doubtful IMO. vermicompost on the other hand might have a fighting chance...especially if it's homemade and you've been running neem/karanja through the bins...