Reg. Herijuana IBL or Fem Herijuana from Sannies?

This one is a good one. I didn't find that it knocked me out. I did find it to provide awesome pain relief. I think the pheno I like is pretty high in CBD but I have no way to know for sure. I do know there are some heri cuts out there testing very high in CBD though (way over 5%).

It IS great before bed. It won't stimulate you really. I just didn't find it destroyed my day if I had some early. I harvest mostly milky and very little amber.

Jogro said:

Yes, it is confusing.

I've already explained what an "inbred line" is above. The term is synonymous with "true breeding line", and analogous to a "purebred" animal (though not exactly the same).

Yes, a true inbred line should be "stable", meaning that if you crossed any two plants from an inbred line, the offspring should be similar to the parents.

An "incross" is a little different. That means you're crossing a plant to another one from the same lineage. If you do enough incrossing, you could create a stable line.
This is contrasted to an "outcross", which is crossing a plant to a totally different line to introduce new traits.

A chem-4 incross is either chem4 x chem4, or some offspring of chem4 crossed to some other offspring of chem4.

Let me explain further with a relevant example.

Lets say you have a bunch of Petrolia Headstash ceeds. These plants are all similar, and if you cross any two of them, you'll get more Petrolia Headstash plants. PH is an "inbred line".

Now lets say you want to create something different. So you cross your Petrolia Headstash with Killer New Haven (a different inbred line) to create a PH x NH F1 generation. This is an OUTCROSS. . .you're crossing your given line with something entirely unrelated with the idea of creating something new with the best traits of each parent.

Now, you want to refine this further, so you cross two of your F1s. . .this is now an "incross", you're crossing two plants of the same lineage.

If you do this sort of thing enough times, you'll generate an F2, F3, F4, F5, etc, and eventually with good selection, you'll create an entirely new inbred line, in this case herijuana.

Herijuana will have some traits from each of its two ancestors, PH and KNH, but it will breed "true" such that all herijuana plants will be similar and offspring of any two should be similar.

Hope that clarified things.

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Thanks Jogro, That helps alot.
So those Boss Hoggs should be an F-4?

RockyMtnMan said:

Thanks Jogro, That helps alot.
So those Boss Hoggs should be an F-4?

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I don't know the lineage of the Boss Hogg, so I can't really answer the question.

But if they are (Chem4 x Chem4-reversed) inbred for three more generations, then sure, you could consider them an inbred F4 of Chem4.

RockyMtnMan said:

Thanks. I guess it is a lot like people. Your parents will pass on their genetic traits, and even though you will look similar to your siblings, most offspring will look slightly different even though they come from the same lineage. (seeds)

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This is basically true. Human children are somewhat analogous to F1 offspring from hybrid parents, and each child will be phenotypically unique. So sure, in a sense, every individual person is sort of like a rare pheno "clone only" line! (Or vice versa. . .the "clone onlys" are genetically unique somewhat like people are). Mixing metaphors here, every person is a "mutt".

But in general, comparing human genetics to plant breeding is problematic for a number of reasons.

For one thing, any discussion of human breeding/genetics brings up all sorts of charged and nasty political incorrectness (ie Nazi Germany, Antebellum US slavery, etc). While I wouldn't say individual instances have never happened in recorded human history, in free societies, people aren't selectively bred like horses or dogs, and even allusions to this are disturbing.

Also, people routinely breed plants and animals in ways that are utterly unspeakable with humans. IE, humans generally don't "cross" with siblings, let alone "backcross" with parents or grandparents! Along those lines, there is no such thing as a "true breeding" human being, and probably never could be.

While it has been done with some strains of lab rats, mice, etc, in practice, most species simply can't be inbred this way. . .if you try, the resulting offspring become sterile, diseased, or both and the line ends. Even forgetting about the insurmountable practical, ethical, and legal obstacles to trying this, with people a "project" like this would take several hundred years, again making it prohibitive.

OGEvilgenius said:

This one is a good one. I didn't find that it knocked me out. I did find it to provide awesome pain relief. I think the pheno I like is pretty high in CBD but I have no way to know for sure. I do know there are some heri cuts out there testing very high in CBD though (way over 5%).

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I'd love to see the numbers on that. Do you have a link, or ID of a particular cut?

The little testing I've seen on herijuana doesn't show that much CBD. EG:

http://www.scanalytical.com/index.php?option=com_scl_tested&task=sample&Itemid=359&sample=130326Y025
http://www.scanalytical.com/index.php?option=com_scl_tested&task=sample&Itemid=359&sample=121026J008

So that's 16.1%THC/0.4%CBD, and 16.5%THC/1.1%CBD.

Don't get me wrong, 1.1% CBD with a 15:1 ratio is actually fairly high, even for a pure indica. Its just not enough, I don't think, to really consider this a "CBD" type strain.

Subcool had a cut that was over 10% CBD as per his show, but he didn't like how it smelled (which by the way, totally fits given his preference).

It also was sick I believe (PM).

OGEvilgenius said:

Subcool had a cut that was over 10% CBD as per his show, but he didn't like how it smelled (which by the way, totally fits given his preference).

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I definitely buy the second part of this. I don't think anyone thinks that herijuana exactly has an "award winning" flavor or scent.

Usually people's opinions run one of two ways:

a. They think the coffee/sandalwood scent is OK.
b. They hate it, but may (or may not) tolerate it anyway on account of the medicinal properties of the strain.

Not to call out Subcool in particular, but a lot of claims get made in the cannabis game. Numbers are thrown around so loosely and so falsely, that personally, I won't take any cannabinoid number/percentage claim at face value until I see a report from a reputable lab.

While there are a few strains out there with around 10% CBD, they're pretty usual, and to the best of my knowledge Herijuana (which is a 20 year old strain) isn't one of them. Perhaps there is an unusual clone-only type high CBD pheno of this floating around. . .I just don't know.

It also was sick I believe (PM).

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Sorry, I don't understand this.

Are you saying that Subcool said that the particular herijuana plant that made 10% CBD was sick?

Or are you saying that the effect of this particular cut was "sick" (ie excellent)?

Jogro said:

Well, right now there are at least 3 different commercially available forms of herijuana out there that I'm aware of (and there may be more). Sannie has one, DaBean company has an F19(!), I think Motarebel and Woodhorse each offer one (or maybe they offer the same one. . .not sure). I seem to vaguely remember another breeder offering this (or maybe it was an F1 cross) and there is at least another called "medijuana", though I'm not really sure what the provenance of that line is.

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OK. I've double-checked and this is what I've come up with for breeders with herijuana:

Sannie
Motarebel
Woodhorse
DaBean (via Royal Canadian Marijuana collective).
CH9 se-eds (feminized only)
OG Se-eds

Mota and Woodhorses versions are apparently different, though I don't know how different, and I don't think either one sells beans directly into the USA. Both of them should have good legit versions, though, if you can get your hands on any. Don't know about CH9 or OG; both of those are small breeders.

Almost all of these breeders also offer various herijuana crosses that purportedly offer better yield, and/or flavor. There are a few other breeders (eg Leprechaun ceeds) that offer JUST crosses, and not the pure line.

PM powdery mildew

It was sick with powdery mildew. And I don't have much reason to doubt him, it's not like he's using it. I realize numbers and tests are sort of a joke, but to me, based on the effects I felt, I'd say there was a high amount of CBD in my cut. How high? I don't know. But I do know the old folks love it (favorite). It's not my favorite (not an indica guy, but it would be one of the first ones I'd reach for). The flavor does improve with a long cure.

OGEvilgenius said:

It was sick with powdery mildew.

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Gotcha. Thank you.

Don't really think that should affect the cannabinoid ratios, for what that's worth.

And I don't have much reason to doubt him, it's not like he's using it.

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If he's not growing it, using it or working with it, then why would he have it tested? If he hasn't had it tested, how does he know the numbers?

Anyway, the reason I doubt the 10% number has nothing to do with his personal credibility; I'm not calling the guy a liar, and I agree that there should be no reason why he would deliberately be deceptive about this. There could be any number of reasons why an honest mistake could have been made here (ie someone else fed him a wrong number, he mis-read or misspoke, etc).

The reason I doubt is just that the number contradicts everything I know and have seen about this strain, and by itself doesn't make "sense".

10% CBD strains are scarce. There are only a few of them out there, they've only been developed as commercial drug strains relatively recently in just the past few years, and all of them required somewhat specialized breeding with parallel lab testing for selection.

Even harlequin and cannatonic, which are probably the top two specially bred CBD strains out there now don't typically get that high. Cannatonic usually runs 7% THC/7% CBD. Harlequin is usually about the same, though individual cuts of it can run a little higher to nearly 10% THC/CBD. Maybe Subcool mistakenly confused herijuana and Harlequin here? Harlequin also has a "non-interesting" taste, and that could explain this. . . one of the lines it was bred from is a Swiss hemp line used as cattle feed!

In the meantime, herijuana has been conventionally bred from conventional drug strains, and has been around since the early 1990s. If this 20 year old strain could yield 10% CBD, then why would anyone even bother breeding something like Harlequin or Cannatonic?

Given the massive demand for them now, if 10% CBD phenos of this were common (or even scarce) every one of the multiple breeders/sellers of this would be crowing about that. Its not happening. When harlequin and cannatonic ceeds are unavailable (which is most of the time), people would be using this as a reasonable substitute. So far as I know, that's not happening either. If any cuts of these really yielded 10% CBD, they'd be showing up at dispensaries as high CBD buds (and top shelf ones at that). . .again, not happening.

If this strain could test out at 8-10% CBD, there would be other reports of it. Haven't seen any (and I've looked). I've now seen at least 5 separate published test reports on this, and none of them show anywhere NEAR 10% CBD. The highest I can remember has been that one at 1.6% CBD.

Bottom line, while I can't say for sure that a worked/clone only cut of this with 10% CBD doesn't exist, I can't seem to find any documentation of something like that anywhere, and the bulk of the evidence suggests it isn't so. Anyone who thinks they're going to crack open a pack of heri beans from Sannie or any of the other breeders listed above and come up with a cannatonic-like 10% CBD plant is probably mistaken.

I realize numbers and tests are sort of a joke, but to me, based on the effects I felt, I'd say there was a high amount of CBD in my cut. How high? I don't know. But I do know the old folks love it (favorite). It's not my favorite (not an indica guy, but it would be one of the first ones I'd reach for). The flavor does improve with a long cure.

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Well, to be clear, CBD binds to cannabinoid receptors with much higher affinity than THC, and it really doesn't take much to cause a significant subjective effect. Even 1.6% CBD makes herijuana one of the highest THC/CBD ratio conventional strains around, and I have absolutely no doubt that this explains the effects you're describing, and why this one is so prized as a medical strain.

On testing, I wouldn't call it a "joke", at least not if done by a good lab. If done right and reported honestly, it does have its uses to sort of normalize between strains, get some sense of freshness/degradation, etc. I do agree that even with good testing, you have to take the numbers with a big grain of salt, for a lot of reasons.

Obviously, how a plant is grown matters, and individual phenos can affect things. Not so much with inbred lines like herijuana, but with some commercial lines even two different plants from the same pack might have significantly different numbers. Even within the exact same plant, different buds can have different absolute amounts of cannabinoids. The testing is typically done on the best buds from the best phenos. If you're talking about dispensaries, "bait and switch" where what's written in the report is different that what's in the jar is not unheard of.

The point is, there can be lots of reasons why what's on the paper and whats in your joint are different.