Religion: why you believe what you believe, and how can you prove it.

M

madmonk

Member
Well-as far as religion goes my parents were both cathalic and native and tried to instill both belief systems into us kids.I do not believe in a higher power per se but rather seek spirituality through martial arts training.I try to treat people as I would want them to treat me-fairly,I hope and with some respect.I have a certain moral compass that I follow and hopefully I am a better person because of this than what I would be without it.
 
MixedMelodyMindBender

MixedMelodyMindBender

Active Member
Jesus Juice is the Shitnizzz 4 real :) But Im highly allergic ....whhhatt ...thats crazy rita, crazy!

"When homeboy turned water into wine I knew I was feked, Im allergic to alcohol, now I die of thirst, thanks Jesus, thought you was my homeboy"---Tenacious D
 
crazyhazey

crazyhazey

Well-Known Member
Geronimo420 said:
A person with an absolute faith in it's imaginary friend will refute your scientifically accurate argumentation using faith to deny science evidence just like you would invoke science to deny the accuracy of their belief. A sort of western country Yin-Yang (literally meaning "dark and light" )
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yes, but anyone who believes in morality, dinosaurs, and physics would side with me(unless their brain has been thrown in a washing machine by some fucked up pedophiles called priests). there proof, then theres faith. im gonna go with the one that hasnt been proved wrong yet, numbers and facts will continue to be the only thing that i believe to never lie, however humans will always lie, especially if they're writing a book thats made to find your weakness or lack of hope, and fill that pot hole with religion. religion feeds on those who can make decisions for themselves, those who need a mental crutch, and the ones who can confront it and question it are our only hope to eliminate this plague of lies that has spread across our world. thousands of years ago, yes, it may have made sense to believe all that stuff, but now we have made many discoveries, and many good people sacrificed their life to make them, yet some cannot accept these facts that people worked so hard to prove. its disrespectful, and it almost makes me sick how people can value religion over science, taking blind belief over fact. if god knew the answers, he would have told be to shower regularly, brush your teeth, and plenty of other things essential for life. id like to see someone tell me how far praying has really got them, and if you really try to prove that point to me you are either very stupid, or you have experienced a lot of coincidences.
 
eye exaggerate

eye exaggerate

Well-Known Member
BigJon said:
There are a lot of people, however, who do understand that many of the things in ancient religious text are the byproduct of the culture those thoughts were cultivated in.
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...yes, for sure. And, there are also 4 main points in the Bible (and other holy books) which will always be the same. A more modern take on that comes from the Myers-Briggs test, as an example. I think that the thoughts of that day shaped (or cladded, really) an undercurrent that has always been there - and will likely always be there.
 
BigJon

BigJon

Well-Known Member
eye exaggerate said:
...all religions meet at a point. And with a strong atheist worldview I don't know if you can mix and match :) In my opinion it is the people that boast which make for poor attitudes about religion. As a catholic I don't have much appreciation for those particular christians. The thing is, non-christian people of certain descents have the same 'nose in the air' attitude as the christian ones. To me, that is proof of the religion itself being less to blame than the people who peruse its message.
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I grew up Catholic and while, I do try my best not to judge, I cannot help but think that if Christian churches focused more on feeling guilty and less about praise, you might have a lot less two faced Christians. My wife grew up Christian, and when we visit those churches, i FEEL GREAT while I'm there but I learned nothing.

I know it sounds crazy but I love the inherent guilt I feel everytime I do something wrong. It prevents me from doing it again.
 
BigJon

BigJon

Well-Known Member
eye exaggerate said:
...yes, for sure. And, there are also 4 main points in the Bible (and other holy books) which will always be the same. A more modern take on that comes from the Myers-Briggs test, as an example. I think that the thoughts of that day shaped (or cladded, really) an undercurrent that has always been there - and will likely always be there.
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Can you expand on this because i have no idea what you're talking about. But want to! ;)
 
crazyhazey

crazyhazey

Well-Known Member
Growman3001 said:
At some point a person will make a decision in whether or not to believe in God. If a decision is made to believe in God, they make the mistake in thinking that they need to pick a religion and follow it. A religion that is eventually chosen is based off what the person believes to be "common sense." The scriptures are where people learn of these beliefs. Wherever people learn beliefs now and days, the original source is the scriptures. But did "God" himself write all these different scriptures that contradict each other then toss them to the masses? No. These stories are created by man, passed down generation by generation, thus also being distorted even further by man as its being passed down. This happened till the advent of an actual writing system and printing press system came about. Then the stories or "scriptures" were written and copied. Thus by choosing a religion you choose an alternate government that was also created by man...
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just another way to call yourself different really, doesnt mean shit. you can just say you believe in a handfull of life lessons, but some people want to categorize themselves and create some sort of diversity, which will 99% of the time lead to conflict when speaking about beliefs.
 
BigJon

BigJon

Well-Known Member
crazyhazey said:
just another way to call yourself different really, doesnt mean shit. you can just say you believe in a handfull of life lessons, but some people want to categorize themselves and create some sort of diversity, which will 99% of the time lead to conflict when speaking about beliefs.
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Its true. People just like being able to identify themselves as something-creating bonds with people who identify themselves as the same thing and also a satisfaction from being different than the rest.
 
crazyhazey

crazyhazey

Well-Known Member
BigJon said:
I don’t think very many people actually find their life purpose in the literature. The literature allows them introspection so they can make their own decision.




This is the problem with the majority of religious people…not being able to see this fact, that is. There are a lot of people, however, who do understand that many of the things in ancient religious text are the byproduct of the culture those thoughts were cultivated in. I personally always keep that in mind, and I feel it helps me weed out what is important to take out of the text.




I do tend to cherry pick. I am guilty but find nothing wrong with it. Also, I will never reject other philosophies. I will ALWAYS find the common thread between religions. Like I said above, religions are cultivated in many different cultures. Humans all have a decent natural instinct for the “good and just” and it is those commonalities that I focus on.

I look at religion like martial arts and cooking.

Who is the best Iron Chef? Chef Marimoto…seamlessly blending traditional Japanese cuisine with Western flavor and flare.

Who was the best martial artist? Bruce Lee’s philosophies will always make him the greatest martial artist of all time. He knew that there is a lot of traditional mumbo jumbo that you have to disregard to find the true power in the technique. Kicks from tae kwon do! Punches from boxing! Stick fighting from Escrima! Bruce trained with masters of all martial arts, picking up valuable technique as he went.



Here’s my theory. Let’s use the old Jewish account of Moses for an example. He spoke to God, right?

Sometimes I feel like God speaks to me, and all of us, through instinct and intuition. Moses lived around 970 bc according to scholars. That’s a long ass time ago! Let’s be real. Mankind is stupid so how stupid do you think we were then? People could not even read inside their head as of a thousand years ago.

So Moses was a Jewish nomad. Sure to make plenty of contact with neighboring cultures and picking up useful things along the way. Greek historian Herodotous, just about 300 years after Moses, noted the Assyrian nomads throwing cannabis bushes on hot stones and inhaling the vapors.

Moses spoke to God through a burning bush. But literally? Most people believe that. Not me. I believe he inhaled the vapors of a burning bush, gained deep introspection life, took that as a sign from God (who’s to say its not?), and claimed that he personally spoke to God.

I don’t believe in the stories of the bible, but I do believe in Jesus.

I don’t necessarily believe that Jesus was a magical healer and direct decendant of God. I think he figured out some things, like a shaman. And the Jewish people of the time were so amazed with his ability to wrap up ankles and heal the blind, (Cannabis=glaucaoma meds?) that they called him God.

I definitely believe the dude was alive. And he treated people awesome. He hung out with thugs and whores but he never judged them and they changed just by hanging with the guy.

I know you don’t want to hear about faith. Most people can easily say they just have faith in the dude. I can too, BUT I have a reason for it. I see in my daily life how treating people like I want to be treated makes people glow and smile.

I believe that all of us have God juice in us. We just gotta tap into it and just start by being cool!
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well you dont need religion to tell you to be nice to other, im atheist but ill gladly help out any stranger. and yeah i think the same about jesus, he existed but all that god shit was all made up, but when you try to pass on scriptures for so long they will be changed, and who knows who got a hold of the original bible. but the moses thing and the burning bush made sense to me, that guy probably got high as fuck when a forest fire struck in a weed field or something. lucky bastard.
 
crazyhazey

crazyhazey

Well-Known Member
BigJon said:
Its true. People just like being able to identify themselves as something-creating bonds with people who identify themselves as the same thing and also a satisfaction from being different than the rest.
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theres plenty of other ways to do so, i dont think religious diversity ever turns out good, i dont wanna use jerusalem as an example for the billionth time but thats the epitome of what i mean.
 
eye exaggerate

eye exaggerate

Well-Known Member
BigJon said:
Can you expand on this because i have no idea what you're talking about. But want to! ;)
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...lol, it seems to be a theme :)

Well, think of a tree or other 'common' objects...think of any thing that is always there for every single person on the planet. Sunrise, sunset...you get it.

There are thoughts in the whole of man as a race - aka collective consciousness. These thoughts are like those 'common' objects. All people will have the same base thoughts, and the rest comes from experiences that make up the person's personality. In the holy books there are allegories that people will understand no matter what year it is.
 
crazyhazey

crazyhazey

Well-Known Member
eye exaggerate said:
...all religions meet at a point. And with a strong atheist worldview I don't know if you can mix and match :) In my opinion it is the people that boast which make for poor attitudes about religion. As a catholic I don't have much appreciation for those particular christians. The thing is, non-christian people of certain descents have the same 'nose in the air' attitude as the christian ones. To me, that is proof of the religion itself being less to blame than the people who peruse its message.
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very true, but a few have some very obvious plots, but some still cant see it. no church gets taxed, yet they want 10% of your salary? doesnt make sense to me, might make sense when your priest pulls up to the church in a ferrari or some shit.
and exactly, boasting or trying to spread your religion is sick to me. however, religion is man made, and i feel like it was designed to persuade and find peoples weakness, and then attempt to seal whatever weakness with faith, which only makes the problem bigger by relying on someone who doesnt really take action in your life, some may believe this but life moved at the same pace before humans came along, unfortunately the development of our frontal cortex would give us the ability to lie. like i said earlier, humans lie, and if they made a book, dont expect them to not be lies.
 
eye exaggerate

eye exaggerate

Well-Known Member
crazyhazey said:
and exactly, boasting or trying to spread your religion is sick to me. however, religion is man made, and i feel like it was designed to persuade and find peoples weakness, and then attempt to seal whatever weakness with faith
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...you're right, but I feel that religion was made by man because it happens 'in' people first. Let's say 'tangible' religion is an expression of an 'intangible' religion which is the union of right and left hemispheres in the brain. The inner, or intangible religion is perfect. The outward expression of it, however, is less than stellar at times :D
 
BigJon

BigJon

Well-Known Member
crazyhazey said:
well you dont need religion to tell you to be nice to other, im atheist but ill gladly help out any stranger.
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No offense homie but imo, you're Christian. Maybe even moreso than a lot of the self-righteous ones who scream it at the top of their lungs. Nobody needs a book to be nice, but our world has created humans who are so attached to their ego that they dont often realize how often they put themselves before others.

and yeah i think the same about jesus, he existed but all that god shit was all made up, but when you try to pass on scriptures for so long they will be changed, and who knows who got a hold of the original bible. but the moses thing and the burning bush made sense to me, that guy probably got high as fuck when a forest fire struck in a weed field or something. lucky bastard.
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Unless you understand and read old time greek, one may not fully understand the book of John

Unless you understand and read ancient hebrew, one may not fully understand the old testament/torah.

etc etc...

Religion is just a big game of telelphone. But I like to read. and I like to ponder on the spiritual so I read as much as I can get my hands on so I can put it together for myself. Some people dont need to but I personally need emotions to be put into words and ideas that I feel but never verbalized often come to light through the reading of old texts.
 
BigJon

BigJon

Well-Known Member
crazyhazey said:
theres plenty of other ways to do so, i dont think religious diversity ever turns out good, i dont wanna use jerusalem as an example for the billionth time but thats the epitome of what i mean.
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Its not diversity in religion that's bad, it's people focusing on the differences and labeling those differences as bad because they dont understand it.

But with understanding comes enlightenment. This is why I like to know my friend's past, histories, back grounds, family life, etc. So that when they say really ignorant shit, I can look past it and chuckle at it.
 
Growman3001

Growman3001

Active Member
Religion is just the original form of government...
What religions and governments do best is cause war...

I wanted to be apart of a group so I joined rollitup.org...
 
Growman3001

Growman3001

Active Member
You want to believe in God, go ahead...
That dont mean pick a religion though...


Do what makes sense to you, not what others tell you is right...
 
eye exaggerate

eye exaggerate

Well-Known Member
BigJon said:
Its not diversity in religion that's bad, it's people focusing on the differences and labeling those differences as bad because they dont understand it.
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...yep :) And, the 'best' part, we ALL do it. Seems to be the 'job' of man to rise above 'being above' other people.
 
Growman3001

Growman3001

Active Member
crazyhazey said:
just another way to call yourself different really, doesnt mean shit. you can just say you believe in a handfull of life lessons, but some people want to categorize themselves and create some sort of diversity, which will 99% of the time lead to conflict when speaking about beliefs.
Click to expand...
I highly doubt people pick a religion based on how they can be different...
 
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