Reocurring Cloudy Res Water - Ebb & Flow

hellraizer30

Rebel From The North
This is some funny shit right here. Spoiling nutes? Come on bro. Nutes arent milk. They don't spoil. Caused by the h202? seriously got a good laugh out of this one. Where on earth did you come up with such bullshit? I'm not saying bennies are wrong it just depends on which way you want to go, Organic or sterile.
His water murking up is more likely due to his flooding every hour and a half not the peroxide.
On a different note it seems to me a mod. shouldn't be so opinionated about things. A moderator should be moderate.To say Fuck h202 get bennies. This is pretty messed up.
I do believe bennies can and are helpful, and in a good working system natural beneficial bacteria is all you should need. But if you have to keep mixing teas or adding bleach or h202 on a weekly basis. Something else is going on. I don't mix teas and rarely use h202 no problems here. (thank god) I scrub my rez. bout every other water change with bleach water. That's it. So if you want to live your life mixing shit up and constantly living in your rez. Have fun with that, i'll be in the other room with a pair of scissors in my hand.8) But if constant rez. maintenance is not your thing, then water less, good aeration, mid 60s on temp in your rez. and I will guarantee you will have less problems.
Dude i could care none what you think! I have seen a clean res go murky right after h202 was added! Laugh all you want the jokes
on you! As for opions this is a open forum and as long as it fall in line with forum rules i can say whatever! Besides i used the term
could of caused it not it is the cause!

there are many nute brands out there that state right on the back to not use h202 or added air
to the res! The added air make it sour!
 

CountyBoy

Member
3 days ago I cleaned my res, tray, pump, airtstones and lines with a strong mix of bleach water, I reduced my water times drastically from ten times a day to four, reduced my lighting from 24/0 to 18/6 and covered as much as possible the light leaking into the res. This is the results so far; Fresh fill day 1- 9 gallons, 75 ml 29% H202, 800ppm @ 5.4ph... day 3- 8gallons 900ppm @ 6.0 ph... So I topped up 1 gallon (back to 9 gallon) dropping ppm to 850 and I ph down to 5.4 and re-dosed 75ml H202. Currently the res water is clear and the gurls didn't mind the watering or light schedule change. I may cut back watering a little more but will give it a few more days just to make sure everything is fine. I did notice with the changes that the room temps dropped 5 degree F and RH went up 5-10%.
 

hellraizer30

Rebel From The North
Watering 10 time a day is alot! But not whats causing your res to go murky.
Although i have seen h202 effect nutes causing a murky res, i would put my
money on the light that was geting into your res! Seems or sounds like you
solved your issue.
 

waterdawg

Well-Known Member
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not familiar w/dutchmaster myself but flooding every hr and half seems excessive, try cutting back on watering times. I do sog and run ebb on my mums and I have been able to cut floods down to 1x per day in hydroton. This has eliminated alot of my rez problems.​
Again I am on my 4th tray so know shit!!! I have tried many different pump schedules and in my case I don't use air stones but I do floom (my pump has too outlets, one flooms, the other is connected to top res). I believe in my case pump running 45 min on 15 min off works really good. DWC is on 24 so I fugured more cannt hurt lol.


The cloudiness takes a couple days to show and I can see a mild slime when cleaning the tray and res. How often do you change your res? What percent is your H202?
29% H2O2. And I change res every 7 days, I add 50-75ml per 100L once a week, sometimes lol. I do forget every now and then lol. Also the only time I did have a slight build up of possibly slime due to pump plugging, and had slightly brown roots, I added 125 mil and back to normal within 24hrs. Also I'm not sure inline filter would do much unless its UV to kill bacteria if that is issue. Also are you on well water?
 

joe macclennan

Well-Known Member
so how goes it country? I see you are adjusting ph to 5.4 seems a bit low to me, and hellraizer is right, light in your rez will fuk you up.
 

joe macclennan

Well-Known Member
Dude i could care none what you think! I have seen a clean res go murky right after h202 was added! Laugh all you want the jokes
on you! As for opions this is a open forum and as long as it fall in line with forum rules i can say whatever! Besides i used the term
could of caused it not it is the cause!

there are many nute brands out there that state right on the back to not use h202 or added air
to the res! The added air make it sour!
I am seriously not trying to turn this poor guys thread into a Bennies/ sterile debate. Personally I would steer clear of any nute that recommends not adding aeration to your water. As far as I know more oxygen in the root zone is always a good thing.
 

joe macclennan

Well-Known Member
Dude i could care none what you think! I have seen a clean res go murky right after h202 was added! Laugh all you want the jokes
on you! As for opions this is a open forum and as long as it fall in line with forum rules i can say whatever! Besides i used the term
could of caused it not it is the cause!

there are many nute brands out there that state right on the back to not use h202 or added air
to the res! The added air make it sour!
Anyway bub no joke on me. life is good without constant and expensive rez/root problems:weed:
 

waterdawg

Well-Known Member
So is cloudy water a concern? The reason I ask is my water is kinda cloudy but never noticed before... yup I had to look LOL. No smell just cloudy and I did not add H2O2 this refill as I forgot. But is it something I need to remedy. There is no slime on the walls of the res. I am into about 54 days of a 60 day plant and things are really getting crowded in the root zone but they are still white.
 

joe macclennan

Well-Known Member
it depends. Did you just change water? What kind of nutes are you running? Organic or no? Generally speaking with non organic nutes you should not have a cloudiness. But immediately after water change my nutes are a bit cloudy for a few days until everything settles in my tank. I mix my nutes bout 2-3 days early in a premix drum, and vigorously circulate as well as aerate during this time. once in my master rez i only aerate. I also only add h202 if I see any foaming in my last nutes or noticable problems in my gurls. So if you do not see any problems I would not worry to much. Keep an eye on your gurls they will tell you.
 

waterdawg

Well-Known Member
The girls look good and I do run a sterile res. And i changed the res on sunday, every sunday lol. I don't premix but yes I'm sure thats wise. My nutes are mixed locally and branded for a number of companies I believe. This is only my third tray of hydro so figured a sterile res would be a bit easier to start with. My fourth tray is into the 4th week and crystal clear. I dont aerate but did turn the water pump on 24. I did add some (50ml) of H2O2 last night and just checked a minute ago after last post and it is much better. Not sure if it was the H2O2 but like I said it is better and it may have been sediment. I hope it will be done soon lol. The root matt is so thick it is getting hard to find a place to take readings! I think I should put fewer plants in the tray!130204-0714-31.jpg
 

Mechmike

Well-Known Member
I've been using H2O2 for several years now and the perfect dose for my aeroponic system comes out to 4.5ml per US gallon daily which is pretty close to 1ml per liter so in your case would be 27ml per day - roughly 2 tablespoons in the res daily should give your roots a good oxygen boost and do no harm in the process.
 

Mechmike

Well-Known Member
http://www.marijuanagrowing.com/archive/index.php/t-848.html
This link describes using bleach as a res additive. Does anyone have any experience with this? I thought bleach was a death sentence for plants.
On the positive side, bleach is cheap and can be used but it's nasty. If you use chlorine get some pool shock as it's calcium hypochloirite rather than sodium hypochlorite. Plants do better with calcium ions rather than sodium ions. A far better solution is a product called Down Under HF. It's made in Australia where the temps get real high. The stuff is non-toxic and actually smells good. It's made from a component of soybeans. It prevents all single celled organisms from growing on the roots. It prevents root rot really well and can even treat an active case. Another really good product is Physan20 which is a toxic bacteriocide, virucide, and fungicide. Used as a disinfectant (1tsp/gal) it works super well to sterilize your system between crops. It can also be used in very low concentration (1ml/3gal) for a very limited time (2-3 days) for treating bad cases of root rot.
 

bird mcbride

Well-Known Member
In my F&D rock table I've never needed to put anything in the res except ferts, dolomite lime (lumberyard) and ash occasionally. I've never had slime or cloudy. I spray to keep the root base from taking over the bed.
 

waterdawg

Well-Known Member
I did change the pump schedule as well as add the H2O2 so not sure what did what but am leaning toward H2O2, thanks for help. Water looks ok now a bit cloudy but there is a lot of stuff floatin around in there! There's not a whole lot of room left in the top res. just a giant mass of roots.
 

woodsmaneh!

Well-Known Member
When I have problems like yours I hit them hard with H2O2, but you need to fix the cause and that can be a few things, light is getting in some where, if you using totes they are not light proof! Temp will also do this, high temps are a breeding ground. So I mix my H2O2 down to a safe handling mix of 3% because that's your starting point for H2O2. So I mix up a batch of 3% and add 3ml per liter for my every other day mix. You can disinfect with 3% use it everywhere. No here's what I do when I get slime I hit them with a 5% every 4 days till gone. Works for me.

You could also use Zone full strength as recommended on the bottle. I like Zone and if I did not have H2O2 I would use it.

Hydrogen Peroxide and Horticulture

Hydrogen Peroxide (H2O2) is a clear sharp smelling substance very similar in appearance to water (H2O). Like water it is made up of Hydrogen and Oxygen; however H2O2 has an extra Oxygen atom in an unstable arrangement. It is this extra atom that gives H2O2 its useful properties. H2O2 has been used for many purposes including cleaning, bleaching, sterilizing, rocket fuel, and animal feed treatment and in addition many miraculous claims about its health benefits have been made. This article isn't about any of these; instead it will concentrate on horticultural applications. H2O2 is of great use for hydroponics and dirt/soilless gardening.
1. What Does Hydrogen Peroxide do?
H2O2 is an unstable molecule, when it breaks down a single oxygen atom and a molecule of water is released. This oxygen atom is extremely reactive and will attach itself to either another O- atom forming a stable Oxygen molecule or attack a nearby organic molecule. Both the stable and O- forms will increase the level of dissolved oxygen. This is the method by which H2O2 is beneficial. Pre-treating the water supply with H2O2 will drive out the Chlorine many cities use to sterilize it. This will also degrade any pesticides or herbicides that might be present as well as any other organic matter. Well water can be high in methane and organic sulfates, both of which H2O2 will remove. Many disease causing organisms and spores are killed by Oxygen, the free Oxygen H2O2 releases is extremely effective at this. H2O2 will help eliminate existing infections and will help prevent future ones. It is also useful for suppressing algae growth. The free Oxygen atom will destroy dead organic material (i.e, leaves roots) in the system preventing them from rotting and spreading diseases.

2. Over Watering
Roots require Oxygen to breathe and low levels are the main cause of almost all root diseases. Both soil and hydroponic plants often fall prey to the same syndrome although it is rarely recognized as what it really is. Hydroponic crops often fail due to "root rot" and soil crops succumb to "over watering." The real cause of both these problems is a shortage of Oxygen at the root zone. In a soil system the soil consists of particles, a film of water on the particles and air spaces between the particles. When too much water is put into the soil the air spaces fill with liquid. The roots will quickly use up what Oxygen is dissolved in the water; if they haven't drunk enough of the liquid to allow air back in to the soil spaces they will stop working. In this situation roots will start dying within twenty-four hours. As the roots die the plants ability to drink water and nutrients will decrease, this will cause symptoms of nutrient deficiencies (mostly pale, slow, weak growth), and strangely they will start to wilt like they don't have enough water. It is easy to make a fatal mistake at this point and add more water.
In a Hydroponic system the cause is a more direct simple lack of oxygen in the solution, this may be from inadequate circulation and/or aeration. High reservoir temperatures also interfere with Oxygen's ability to dissolve in the water. Temperatures above 70F (20C) will eventually cause problems, 62F-65F (16C-18C) is recommended. The same symptoms will appear as with soil plants but you can also check the roots. Healthy roots should be mostly white with maybe a slight yellowish tan tinges. If they are a brownish colour with dead tips or they easily pull away there are at least the beginnings of a serious problem. Organic dirt like rotting smell means there is already a very good chance it is too late. As roots die and rot they eat Oxygen out of the water, as Oxygen levels are even further depleted more roots die, a viscous circle may be well under way. Reduced Oxygen levels and high temperatures both encourage anaerobic bacteria and fungi. The plants may still be saved but you will have to work fast.
3. How Hydrogen Peroxide prevents root rot/overwatering.
When plants are watered with H2O2 it will break down and release Oxygen into the area around the roots. This helps stop the Oxygen from being depleted in the water filled air spaces until air can get back into them. High Oxygen levels at the roots will encourage rapid healthy root growth. In a Hydroponic system H2O2 will disperse throughout the system and raise Oxygen levels as it breaks down. Strong white healthy roots with lots of fuzzy new growth will be visible. This fuzzy growth has massive surface area allowing for rapid absorption of the huge amounts of water and nutrients needed for rapid top growth. A healthy plant starts with a healthy root system.
4. How to use it.
H2O2 comes in several different strengths 3%, 5%, 8% and 35%, also sold as food grade Hydrogen Peroxide. The most economical is 35% which we recommend be diluted to three percent before using, as at this high concentration it can cause damage to skin and clothing. When working with food grade H2O2 it is very important that you clean up any spills or splashes immediately, it will damage almost anything very quickly. This is extra important with skin and clothing. Skin will be temporarily bleached pure white if not washed cleaned. Gloves are strongly recommended when working with any strong chemical.
Food grade H2O2 can be diluted to three percent by mixing it one part to eleven parts water (preferably distilled). The storage container should be opaque to prevent light from getting in and it must be able to hold some pressure. If three-liter pop bottles are available in your area they are ideal for mixing and storing H2O2. There are twelve quarter liters (250ml) in three liters, if you put in one quarter liter H2O2 and eleven quarter liters (250ml) water in the bottle it will full of three percent H2O2 and the bottle can hold the pressure that the H2O2 will generate. Three percent Hydrogen Peroxide may be added at up to three ml's per liter (2 1\2 tsp. Per gallon), but it is recommended that you start at a lower concentration and increase to full strength over a few weeks. Use every watering even on fresh cuttings. For hydroponics use every reservoir change and replace twenty-five percent (one quarter) every day. Example: In a 100L reservoir you would add three hundred ml's (3%) of H2O2 when changing the nutrient. You would then add seventy-five ml's more every day.
5. Where to get it.
35% food grade: called food grade because it has no toxic impurities
Of course your local hydroponics retailer, whom you can locate over the web at www.hydromall.com. Direct order off the web (there may be shipping restrictions on high strength peroxides). H2O2 is used to bleach hair so the local hairdresser may have a source. The local feed supplier may have it in small towns. Prices range from fifteen dollars per quarter liter to eighty dollars a gallon. One gallon will treat up to fifty thousand liters of water. 3%5%, 8% Can be found at most drugstores or pharmacies, prices start at a less than a dollar for a one hundred-ml bottle that will treat one hundred liters.

6. What to do if you already have root rot.
In Dirt:
Use peroxided water with anti-fungicide (benomyl) and a high Phosphate fertilizer (9-45-15, 10-52-10, 0-60-0) for root growth. Root booster (5-15-5) or any other product with rooting hormone dissolved in it is helpful in re-growing roots and is strongly recommended. If a plant is witty adding Nutri-Boost may save it. Water heavily until liquid pours out the bottom of the pot. This sound like bad idea, but it flushes out stagnant dead water and replaces it with fresh highly oxygenated water. Don't let plants sit in trays full of water, the soil will absorb this water and stay too wet. Don't water again until the pot feels light and the top inch or two of the soil are dry.
In Hydro:
Change your nutrients. Add H2O2 to the system. This will add oxygen and chemically eat dead roots. If roots are badly rotted and can be pulled away by hand you should pull them off. They are already dead and will only rot, causing further problems. Add a fungicide to kill any fungus that is probably present in the rotted tissue to prevent it from spreading. Root booster will speed recovery. If plants are wilted Nutri-Boost may help save them. Increase aeration of the water; get an air pump and air stones, or more of them, for the reservoir. An air stone under every plant is usually very effective, but will require a larger air pump. Models that will do from forty to four hundred stones are available. Decrease the reservoir temperature, oxygen dissolves better in cold water and disease causing organisms reproduce slower as well. A good temperate range is 62F to 65F; anything above 70F will eventually cause a problem. It is also a good idea to remove any witty plants from the system and put them on a separate reservoir so they don't infect plants that are still healthy.

Summary
The key to big productive plants is a big healthy root system and Hydrogen Peroxide is a great way to keep your roots healthy. It is a must to ensure the biggest best crops possible and to increase the chances of your plants thriving to harvest. Peroxide users will rarely lose plants or crops to root disease and will harvest larger and more consistent crops.
 

joe macclennan

Well-Known Member
woodsman you are the man. I commend you for your informative and well thought out posts. Many of us (myself included) can learn something from someone like you. Plus rep to you sir, plus rep to you;-)
 

CountyBoy

Member
hellraizer30 - "Seems or sounds like you solved your issue."
Damn! I wish!! Every 5-10 days algea starts ass raping my Res. So here's what's new... I wrapped my Res in Polyfilm with white side facing out and I better covered the plumbing in/out of the Res. I ditched H202 and bought some DM Zone, dosing 20ml for 46 liters. My timers are analog. I thought that maybe the 15 min flood with lights on was part of the problem so I switched the flood to start and finish right before lights on. I now only flood 1x per day. I'm going to start experimenting with dosing the res every 5 days with zone. I'm confused!

It's becoming a pain in the ass and not fun cleaning the res as often as I am. I use a strong mix and let the shit soak while I scrub other parts. Damn, I even let bleach water run through the pump while I clean all the pieces parts.

How do you guys light proof where the plumbing goes into the res?

joe Macclennan - "So how goes it country?"
Not to bad other than my algea problems. Thanks for asking.
 

checkdareplay

Active Member
I just started my undercurrent system and failed from one day to the other, cuz of a stoner mistake. Brown slime within 24 hrs, so i drained the system, fill it back with about 30 gl then added bleach at 5ml per gal. Statered scrubbing away like a maniac...lol i finished filling it up, then ran it for about an hr or 2.i drained it completely, then filled it again adding physan20 then ran it for a while again. I noticed that the bleach did alot, but when i ran the physan20 it took care of those spots that you cant reach/scrub, like the pipes. I also put water in a bucket and started wiping down where ever this water came in contact with. When i was a done, my grow room smelled like a sterilized science lab. I dont have it running right now, cuz i decided to start from scratch again, plus i was tired of running shakzilla. Now im looking forward to running some cougar piss from RD.
Anyways wish you luck on your battle.
 
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