Rhino skin vs Botanicare silica blast. (need a hort person)

mr. green thumb 01 said:

I cant get protekt to mix with H&G? I must be handicapped...

Does every product with 8% silica have to have 3% potassium? I wouldn't think so but im not certain. I just like .5 a.n potash. I know its over priced but there not all the same.

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you're right about that. They do vary a little bit. But I use silica products for the silica. The 3% K doesnt bother me. . consider bloom boosters are like 0.50.30. Even if you use them in dilute form, you're getting a good deal of extra K

It wont mix?? H&Gs aquaflakes part A is murky anyways, how do you know there's a problem?

redi jedi said:

Are any of those products compatible with H202?

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They are. Silica isn't alive, so it wont be hurt by h2o2. h2o2 is an oxidizer

Humboldt has a new one out without the K . (low salt) and is cheap Click on: Homboldt Silica Some people prefer additives that don't add significantly to the N-P-K. They may have a tuned in formula.

I would suspect new companies and old alike will incorporate silica in the base formulas like V&G by Hydroponics research. You really only need about 30 ppm

I like DutchMasters though. 0-0-2 and cheap!

Mr. M said:

I actually study horticulture as my major. You would probably want to go with the rhino skin because it doesnt have any Sodium Silicate which is pretty much just salt and silicon and the less sodium you have the better, because fertilizers have alot of sodium in them already (sodium is bad for plants, thats why you need to change your water every now and then because of the salt build up). it has something to do with the nutrients are carried on the sodium molucles or something correct me if im wrong. the silicon as i remember kinda hearing about that in a lecture relatively has no effect on plant growth. my guess it might have something to do with keeping the consistency of the formula i dont really know. they dont really teach anything about hydro but the principle is the same.

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very good info thanks

Clown Baby said:

you're right about that. They do vary a little bit. But I use silica products for the silica. The 3% K doesnt bother me. . consider bloom boosters are like 0.50.30. Even if you use them in dilute form, you're getting a good deal of extra K

It wont mix?? H&Gs aquaflakes part A is murky anyways, how do you know there's a problem?

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The stuff makes my whole 5 gal bucket of water cloud up like gray or murky white. Whatever it is it doesnt look like something my plants want. Its fine with the part A its the part B that activates the cloudy water. I dunno but after 3-4 buckets and dumping all those, wasting the $ of a week worth of nutes. I figured id stop trying. I had a feeling the rhino skin might react different and it certainly did. So I just stick with that.

patlpp said:

Humboldt has a new one out without the K . (low salt) and is cheap Click on: Homboldt Silica Some people prefer additives that don't add significantly to the N-P-K. They may have a tuned in formula.

I would suspect new companies and old alike will incorporate silica in the base formulas like V&G by Hydroponics research. You really only need about 30 ppm

I like DutchMasters though. 0-0-2 and cheap!

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I will be sure to look into this Humboldt silica. Thank you +rep for good info. H&G rep said when using Si it is good to start with around 100ppm with RO. Obviously 100ppm Si wouldnt be good for seedlings but from what I hear they would prefer 100ppm in flower. Now I could be wrong but I also know its hard to overdo silica.

mr. green thumb 01 said:

I cant get protekt to mix with H&G? I must be handicapped...

Does every product with 8% silica have to have 3% potassium? I wouldn't think so but im not certain. I just like .5 a.n potash. I know its over priced but there not all the same.

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I had the same 'issue' when using protekt during my Aqua Flakes test. I called H&G and they said the cloudy res is not an issue. Turns out they were right.

FWIW, Protekt makes the GH 3-part cloud up too but again, no issues there either.

Mix properly and mix well and you wont have 'issues'.

protek is good stuff priced right

yea use protekt.. does raise PH alot... so use properly, its decent stuff

homebrewer said:

I had the same 'issue' when using protekt during my Aqua Flakes test. I called H&G and they said the cloudy res is not an issue. Turns out they were right.

FWIW, Protekt makes the GH 3-part cloud up too but again, no issues there either.

Mix properly and mix well and you wont have 'issues'.

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Thank you HB for that input. That makes me feel a little better about using it but I will be watching those protekt tubs like a hawk. Probably just for fun but better safe then sorry.

It also clouded for me when using BC Technaflora nutes. Its just strange it clouds with certain bases but not all. I wonder why?

mr. green thumb 01 said:

Thank you HB for that input. That makes me feel a little better about using it but I will be watching those protekt tubs like a hawk. Probably just for fun but better safe then sorry.

It also clouded for me when using BC Technaflora nutes. Its just strange it clouds with certain bases but not all. I wonder why?

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It's the calcium. The GH 3 part has 5% calcium, DG has like 2%. H&G must have a good amount of calcium in there too. I think the high calcium is mixing with the silicate making calcium silicate. This can be mixed back into solution which is what I noticed after one flood. The pumps seemed to separate the elements. Like I said, the cloudiness wasn't an issue and I do remember the cloudiness going away kind of like when you mix in 'pH up'.

Seems not so good to be cloudy after all.

Here is what H&G told me-

I think it has got to do with how strong Silica is--too strong!

This is the order in which i add silica in relation to correctors and A&B:

1. Add Silica
2. Correct your solution to a 7.5 pH--no more, definitely no less (or once you add A&B it might go down to 4.0 pH. 7.5 pH correction is fine.)
3. Add A. Wait or stir to dissipate.
4. add B. Wait or stir to dissipate.
5. See if you still observe cloudiness. If so, it is the calcium in B, precipitating. The choice, then, will have to be made: calcium or silica? I'd rather have the calcium available.
6. Check and correct pH. 6.0-6.4 pH will do for most applications, whether run-to-waste or recirculating, hydro or soil-grow.

I get the same problem if I use pH up, but have never seen any cloudiness when using Mad Farmer's Silica Shield; you might want to give it a shot--it's a great product and of great quality, same as their Mad Farmer NUTS (fulvic acid).

There should be no cloud formation when mixing nutrients. even though the Flairform manual once stated that as long as the cloud diluted again it was fine, I know that once calcium precipitates, it is very difficult for it to be absorbed. The best thing is to use a silica product that will not cause such a heavy calcium cloud to begin with.

I hope this helps. Feel free to contact me if you have any more questions.

Cheers,

--Eliab Lozada
House & Garden Nutrients
Sales Representative
Technical Support
2301 Lake Tahoe Blvd., Ste. 4
South Lake Tahoe, CA 96150
Office: 530-541-2534
Fax: 530-541-2546
Technical Support: 530-318-7190
email: eliab@house-garden.us

That was a direct copy & paste.

I am guessing that is has to do with the type of silica used. Or possible the ratios of each? I dunno but whatever it was I am glad I didnt use it.

Hey mr. green thumb 01 same thing w/Proteckt, you add that 1st (another silica product). What I think is even more important is you dilute everything 1st before adding to res with 1 liter to 1 gallon water. That's said to help prevent issues and precipitates even if you add in wrong order. Also for RO water to add calmag formulas before nutes to prevent lockup. But silica 1st always.

Just found out rhino skin has 15% Si02 (silicon dioxide) So really it is potent stuff. I always use silica and honestly the rhino skin seemed best. It did not mess with my ph but best of all it thickens the plants up a lot faster. Seriously, the stalks and branches on the rhino skin plants are a lot stronger and thicker. Plus no clouding issues for me at all with this stuff no matter how I mix it.

mr. green thumb 01 said:

Just found out rhino skin has 15% Si02 (silicon dioxide) So really it is potent stuff. I always use silica and honestly the rhino skin seemed best. It did not mess with my ph but best of all it thickens the plants up a lot faster. Seriously, the stalks and branches on the rhino skin plants are a lot stronger and thicker. Plus no clouding issues for me at all with this stuff no matter how I mix it.

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Where did you get that info? I thought their bottle said 1% but they seem to change their shiz all the time.

mr. green thumb 01 said:

Just found out rhino skin has 15% Si02 (silicon dioxide) So really it is potent stuff. I always use silica and honestly the rhino skin seemed best. It did not mess with my ph but best of all it thickens the plants up a lot faster. Seriously, the stalks and branches on the rhino skin plants are a lot stronger and thicker. Plus no clouding issues for me at all with this stuff no matter how I mix it.

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do you go as far as to get the connoisseur stuff or just the sensi a/b grow/bloom?

homebrewer said:

Where did you get that info? I thought their bottle said 1% but they seem to change their shiz all the time.

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It's 15% silicon dioxide (si02) and .4% potash (k20)
I think Protekt is 7.8% si02 and 3% k20
I am betting this is where they say they use more of the silica that can be most useful to the plant.
Over priced rhino skin for me all the way

elfman420 said:

do you go as far as to get the connoisseur stuff or just the sensi a/b grow/bloom?

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I used conni ph perfect a&b with their full line.

Some things I did like is AN seemed to yield high and flower quickly. With the plants I didn't mess up. Their bug bud and Rhino skin are great products. I can not yet totally vouch for the A.N line as is is highly over priced and very difficult to dial in. They try to sell you so much crap when you use it all you fry your plants. I had a lot of problems with leaf burn and calcium, possible iron deficiency's with all of my kush strains. However, I used no cal mag and my part b had precipitate in the bottom which i found out to be solidified calcium. I will try them again using calmag+ or CALiMAGic and not every additive at once as they say in the feed chart.

IMO bud factor x is a total waste and should be replaced with a cal mag supplement. Bud candy I really have no opinion on, I like that its clear but I dunno about all the hype of sweeteners... Their SensiCal is great for adding calcium but not so great for adding iron and in a high tech system w/ high flow pumps & air stones the iron can get depleted quite rapidly. So just beware its NOT user friendly in my experience and when you try to get help from customer service they are terrible and dont even answer emails half the time.

mr. green thumb 01 said:

It's 15% silicon dioxide (si02) and 0.4% potash (k20)
I think Protekt is 7.8% si02 and 3% k20
I am betting this is where they say they use more of the silica that can be most useful to the plant.
Over priced rhino skin for me all the way

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Can you post a link confirming this information? 0.4% potash is on their website but the amount of silicon is not (maybe it is and I just missed it). They also claim that Rhino skin '...is the most effective, concentrated silica product on the market' yet they say to use it a 2ml/L or 8mls/gallon???

Yeah their dose is high compared to others. I use 3table spoons per 5 gal and it works wonders. Yeah I guess my last post didnt even answer the question, sorry. Well I got a new bottle the other day and they put it right on their new label now. Yet I still see nothing on their web site also. I can post a pic but I can read just fine. Ill double check...yezzir 15% si02 lol Come on Hb give them credit for something now...lol

mr. green thumb 01 said:

Yeah their dose is high compared to others. I use 3table spoons per 5 gal and it works wonders. Yeah I guess my last post didnt even answer the question, sorry. Well I got a new bottle the other day and they put it right on their new label now. Yet I still see nothing on their web site also. I can post a pic but I can read just fine. Ill double check...yezzir 15% si02 lol Come on Hb give them credit for something now...lol

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Thanks for the info. Quick question; what size do you have and how much does the label say it weighs?

EDIT: Is this your label? http://www.advancednutrients.com/hydroponics/oregon/oregon_labels/RhinoSkin_OREGON.pdf