RO system necessary for hydroponics?

I'm new to Hydro but not growing as I've been using SunGro Metro-Mix 300 in 3 gallon containers since 2007.

I'm wanting to go Hydro and get an Ebb and Flow set up. How important is an RO system? Is it necessary?

Would an RO system make things easier and be better in the long run?

I don't mind spending the money on an RO system if its a good investment.

I run all my tap water through a gravity fed Berkey water filter anyway, but it works real slow and takes almost an hour to just filter 2.5 gallons.

RO systems are a pain in the ass to install, I'd rather do without one if I can.

if you can afford it get it however if you dont have hard water is not necessary my water sucks so i dont have a choice if you dont know if your water is hard get it

as far as being a pain to install i just have a saddle valve on my cold water line in the basement the only pain is sorting out the colored line with no instruction like i did lol

As a recent RO convert, get a Hydrologic 100 or 200. It makes a world of difference. With tap water you are going to have your PH rising constantly and you'll have to use more ph down to keep it at 5.8, and using more ph down will lock out nutrients. With RO you'll use drops of ph down instead of ml's of ph down. I've noticed my plants are looking a lot healthier.

To determine whether you need an RO water filter or not you need to know what the level of soluble calcium is as well as the level of hardness and magnesium . Hardness is also refereed to as the alkalinity. Within the alkalinity (hardness) there are the carbonates, such as magnesium carbonate and potassium carbonate etc. If you live in the U.S. just contact your water provider for the information. If you use well water or live out side the U.S. just take a water sample to any pet store that sells salt water fish and they will perform the tests for you. Just ask them to test for calcium , alkalinity and magnesium. Post the results here on the forum.

The best buy for quality RO filters I know of is at The Filter Guys. http://www.thefilterguys.biz/ro_systems.htm There are cheaper ones available but they usually have cheap horizontal filters, cheap RO membranes and opaque filter housings. No filter except the RO membrane should be horizontally mounted. When looking for an RO filter look for a Dow FilmTec filter membrane. The only other comparable filters are made by Applied Membrane filters.

greenstar said:

As a recent RO convert, get a Hydrologic 100 or 200. It makes a world of difference. With tap water you are going to have your PH rising constantly and you'll have to use more ph down to keep it at 5.8, and using more ph down will lock out nutrients. With RO you'll use drops of ph down instead of ml's of ph down. I've noticed my plants are looking a lot healthier.

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I don't have this problem, I have Hard Water with an EC of over 300!! I use the lucas formula (I just add the 300 to the required EC ~1800+300), I haven't had to adjust the pH since my plants where ready for 100% nutes thats many weeks now and I check my pH daily!

My pH ranges from 5.8 - 6.2

i installed a softener along with R/O and my r/o comes out at 10ppm , id go with the r/o regardless

yes.
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linsys said:

I don't have this problem, I have Hard Water with an EC of over 300!! I use the lucas formula (I just add the 300 to the required EC ~1800+300), I haven't had to adjust the pH since my plants where ready for 100% nutes thats many weeks now and I check my pH daily!

My pH ranges from 5.8 - 6.2

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Man those are insane levels, both the beginning TDS and the additional TDS. Your TDS even with the initial TDS need not be above 1000 ppm. Contrary to popular a high EC does not increase the uptake of nutrients but actually nearly always decrease the uptake when above an EC of 1. You need to read up on osmosis dude. Definition: Diffusion of fluid through a semipermeable membrane from a solution with a low solute concentration to a solution with a higher solute concentration until there is an equal concentration of fluid on both sides of the membrane. ie. your nutrient solution is not going to provide as many nutrients if the EC is high. Period.

I use my water straight out of the tap, my RO machine just takes up space now.

fatman7574 said:

Man those are insane levels, both the beginning TDS and the additional TDS. Your TDS even with the initial TDS need not be above 1000 ppm. Contrary to popular a high EC does not increase the uptake of nutrients but actually nearly always decrease the uptake when above an EC of 1. You need to read up on osmosis dude. Definition: Diffusion of fluid through a semipermeable membrane from a solution with a low solute concentration to a solution with a higher solute concentration until there is an equal concentration of fluid on both sides of the membrane. ie. your nutrient solution is not going to provide as many nutrients if the EC is high. Period.

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No offense but my father is a chemist and my step-father is a botanist and my younger brother is a pharmacist and you have your terms wrong...

You nearly always need your EC above 1 generally you need it at almost 2 (measured in miliSiemens which is what I assume you are talking about), to keep things simple I didn't note that my "PPM" TDS meter measures in microsiemen (not miliSiemens), and as I'm sure you understand EC stands for Electrical Conductivity and is measured in mS/cm or miliSiemens per centimeter. TDS stands for Total Dissolved Solids and is measured in ppm or parts per million. TDS is acquired by taking the EC value and performing a calculation to determine the TDS value. Because TDS is actually a calculation it is really only a guess at what the nutrient concentration is. On top of that, there are three different conversion factors to determine TDS and different manufacturers use different conversion factors. In other words you could test the same solution with two different meters and get two totally different readings. But the EC is read the same by all meters the only difference is the conversion factor.

When you talk about PPM you are NOT talking about EC you are talking about a conversion factor which is used by most PPM meters that take the EC in mili or mico and convert it to PPM using either the NaCl Conversion (.4) or the 442 Conversion (.7) conversion.

An EC of 2.0 (again using miliSiemens) or 2000 using (microSiemens) is 1000 ppm (again using the NaCl Conversion) or 1400 PPM (using the 442 Conversion).

When you talk about PPM in the future you need to specify which conversion factor you are talking about... because PPM ## is useless with out this info!

Oh and here is more info on the Lucas formula:

EC microsiemen:
0-4-8: 946 µS
0-5-10: 1184 µS
0-8-16: 1894 µS

TDS @ 0.5 conversion:
0-4-8 = 473 ppm
0-5-10 = 592 ppm
0-8-16 = 947 ppm

TDS @ 0.7 conversion:
0-4-8 = 663 ppm
0-5-10 = 829 ppm
0-8-16 = 1326 ppm

So you are correct somewhat in stating that my EC measured in microsiemen is a bit high, it should be at about 2100 (since my hard water ads 300 EC microsiemen) but a little high doesn't seem to be causing any issues.

linsys said:

No offense but my father is a chemist and my step-father is a botanist and my younger brother is a pharmacist and you have your terms wrong...

And waht you absorbed there traing and education by assmossis by sitting on the same toilet seeat. What education do you have. Did you even finish high school or are you still in high school?

Most posters to growing forums list their tap water and RO filter water as TDS in ppm a not an EC measurement. I mistakenly thought that is what you were meaning and simply though you were meaning that. Many/most hobby grade meters are TDS meter and do not even display EC, yet alone show units for the measurement of EC if shown. As a matter of fact most people, even scientists (I am a resaerch scientist) do not even use ms/cm units when referring to EC when talking to lay people. I think I have seen it used maybe one other time in this forum but not in casual sense as you did.

You nearly always need your EC above 1 generally you need it at almost 2 (measured in miliSiemens which is what I assume you are talking about), to keep things simple I didn't note that my "PPM" TDS meter measures in microsiemen (not miliSiemens), and as I'm sure you understand EC stands for Electrical Conductivity and is measured in mS/cm or miliSiemens per centimeter.

Wow, that is news to me. I always use my nutrients at around 600 or lower and I grow A LOT, and have done so for over 35 years. My larger tube and chamber misting aero is an even lower TDS. I do not expect to ever need a TFS higher than 450 in my air atomized chambers just being set up.

TDS stands for Total Dissolved Solids and is measured in ppm or parts per million. TDS is acquired by taking the EC value and performing a calculation to determine the TDS value. Because TDS is actually a calculation it is really only a guess at what the nutrient concentration is. On top of that, there are three different conversion factors to determine TDS and different manufacturers use different conversion factors. In other words you could test the same solution with two different meters and get two totally different readings. But the EC is read the same by all meters the only difference is the conversion factor.

Dude I have given the same explanation only better many times. Get over it and move on.

When you talk about PPM you are NOT talking about EC you are talking about a conversion factor which is used by most PPM meters that take the EC in mili or mico and convert it to PPM using either the NaCl Conversion (.4) or the 442 Conversion (.7) conversion.

Your still jabbering?

An EC of 2.0 (again using miliSiemens) or 2000 using (microSiemens) is 1000 ppm (again using the NaCl Conversion) or 1400 PPM (using the 442 Conversion).

When you talk about PPM in the future you need to specify which conversion factor you are talking about... because PPM ## is useless with out this info!

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Dude you need to grow up. Quit living off the accomplishments of others in your family. Quit repeating i ole wore out crap info that every one already knows. And read up on osmossis and plant nutrient EC. Plants do not need 1000 ppm nutrients.

The Lucas dat you posted is from a post that is over 6 years old. The Lucas "Formula" is old news, bad news and extremely well read and viewed news. You should, however, still give a credit or reference. Without doing so it is cosmsidered plagerisn. A true sign that you lack the education possessed by other family members.

http://overgrow.com/growfaq/1654
Snaps_Provolone

whats wrong with the LUCAS FORMULA and feeding plants over 1000ppm?

lol have you guys ever read the ask lucas thread at cannabis world? lol, it is all over the place, the dude lucas himself tries everything and says it gives him better results that the 8 16 ratio. In the end he is using flora series I think and when switching to flower he just add the bloom in with the addbacks. He begins with grow stating it is a 100 percent better! The flora nova grow is their full str npk for their three part. I use the GH nute calcualtor and I have no regrets. My tapwater with the hardwater micro gives me perfect results so far, alsong with a ph of 5.8 that I never have to switch. Do not use nutes not meant for tapwater with tapwater as the nute companies will tell you. But the hardwater micro and regular bloom and grow three part are meant for tapwater and have additional buffers that allow it to work like a charm in rockwool especially I find. Without using tapwater I would not do hydro as the making of ro water is a bitch and I want this to work around my schedule. Be prepared for floods with ro as everyone inadvertently does it somehow or another.

I've been doing 3 hydro grow so far and where i use to live on my first grow i didnt need a RO as the water ppm came out around 50 or so. and all the plumbing where new so the water was totally acceptable to run my system and the plants where healthy.

Where i actualy grow, i had to purchase a 6 stages RO-DI Filter because my tap water was almost killing my bb's and the water was only 100ppm or so, weird i know but i later noticed the plumping was totally out dated.

Now with the RO-DI the plants are fine and recovering nicely. PPM comes out a 1. It also dropped the ph from the tap water(7.0) to 5.5.

I would suggest that you get a RO filter, even a cheap 2 stage would be better than nothing.

With regards to the systems being difficult to hook up, you can always go the garden hose style route. Many RO systems come with a female garden hose adapter. Then you can go to Home Depot and get male garden hose adapter for your faucet. Hook it up to the sink, make some water, disconnect it and put it in the closet when you're not using it. Works well for me.

gcvt420 said:

With regards to the systems being difficult to hook up, you can always go the garden hose style route. Many RO systems come with a female garden hose adapter. Then you can go to Home Depot and get male garden hose adapter for your faucet. Hook it up to the sink, make some water, disconnect it and put it in the closet when you're not using it. Works well for me.

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ya mine under my kitchen sink attached to a fountain nozzel for cooking and drinking use . 1 inch hole undersink threw floor with rubber tubing i just connect it over night and while at work filling up storage totes as needed , simply turn off and disconnect tubing and have a drink of pure water its great .

smppro said:

I use my water straight out of the tap, my RO machine just takes up space now.

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Try your RO for drinking water. You may be surprised and won't drink tap water again. I have a pressurized tank on mine and refill my water cooler jug with it.
My kids will not drink tap water because they say the RO has a better taste.
You have it, may as well use it for something.

Dirty Harry said:

Try your RO for drinking water. You may be surprised and won't drink tap water again. I have a pressurized tank on mine and refill my water cooler jug with it.
My kids will not drink tap water because they say the RO has a better taste.
You have it, may as well use it for something.

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Yea i shouldnt have said it like that, it takes up space as far as growing is concerned, its hooked up under my sink for drinking water and for my fish, i think that they are great, its just easier for me to get it from the tap.