Rockwool Clone help..

D

Dragon888

Active Member
Hi all!

I was hoping someone could assist me as I go along, I have bad results from my rockwool clones.

I have heated propagation domes as well as a standard plastic large dome, with a heat mat on a thermostat and digital thermometer, as well as a air pump at my disposal.

I would say, if I had to put 16 clones in the more successful chamber, being the large plastic chamber with the heat pad, I would get about 3 successful clones after about 4 weeks only. The rest just stay alive but do not root, otherwise, they just die of dampning off.

My procedure:

*Cut off nice vigorous cuttings at about the 3rd node down with scissors. I then scrape off some outer stem layer, and dip in clone gel

*Cut off half the leaf span

*I put them all in rockwool which was run under tap water. I am not sure what pH the water is, but in South Africa, we have of the best tap water in the world *apparently* (I give the rockwool a swing to rid excess water)

*I then put the clones in my dome, mist it slightly, and have a glass of water in, with an air stone bubbling fresh air into the water/dome

The root zone temperature is about 28deg celcius, and the air temperature about 26deg celcius.

What am I doing wrong to only get about 4 successful clones out of 16 clones?

If someone could guide me and I will follow parameters and see if there is any change.

Oh, the clones are under x2 18w fluorescent grow tubes..

Assistance would be GREATLY appreciated!

I will post pictures in the next few hours when I get home.
 
coreywebster

coreywebster

Well-Known Member
Your temps are way hot for cloning, the root zone wants to be about 70- 74degrees f, your at 82 degrees f.
One thing I have not cloned in is rockwool. But I did grow in it a long time ago, my experience is it stays too wet and probably doesnt have as much air in it as other mediums might.
I have never thought about using an air stone in a glass of water, I guess your doing that to increase humidity. That may be the issue, if its too humid then the plant doesn't feel the need to grow roots because its absorbing so much h2o from the humid environment.
I would lower the temp within the dome, if its air temp your taking readings from then the root temp could well be even higher due to the way the heat mats work in propagators.
I would lower the humidity but getting rid of the air stone and glass of water. Spray the clones when you first take put them in there, maybe twice a day for first few days and back off to once a day, if they are not wilting then they are getting enough spraying. After day 4 crack the lid on the dome and keep an eye on them. By day 7-10 you should have roots.
If all else fails you can change your medium, I have used all sorts with 99% success, but what I find really simple is a seed cell tray with an inch or two of perlite in each, I space the clones out one in a cell one empty, then I put straight tap water into the bottom of the propagator, the perlite wicks it up around the stem but it also has oxygen due to the shape of the perlite so the stems stay healthy and never rot. The humidity stays high enough that I don't even have to put the lid on the propagator. They don't even wilt at all and have had 100% success (maybe 99.5) .
 
D

Dragon888

Active Member
Thank you so much for such an informative reply!

The reason I have the root zone at that temperature as because the general overall of websites pointed me to that temperature, so I was just following what I read, but experience is best I guess!

As for the humidity, I always see pictures where everyone else's domes are wet on the walls, so I thought that is the right way but to tell you the truth, and come to think about it, my clones never ever drooped, even when there was not a drop of humidity on the dome walls. Weird...

I am going to take some new clones tomorrow and do exactly as you have instructed me (I will stick with the rockwool for now).

I have attached two pics of my setup. I have spaced the dome a little off the heat mat due to the temperatures that get too high, even with the thermostat.

Thoughts would be appreciated :)
 
all coco

all coco

Well-Known Member
It's probably a combination of high ph and high temps. Get your ph down to 6 and root temp to 78F and I think you will have more success.
 
D

Dragon888

Active Member
I am having problems - It keeps saying an error has occurred - I have even put my camera down to 2mp but still does not allow me to upload pics?
 
D

Dragon888

Active Member
coreywebster said:
Your temps are way hot for cloning, the root zone wants to be about 70- 74degrees f, your at 82 degrees f.
One thing I have not cloned in is rockwool. But I did grow in it a long time ago, my experience is it stays too wet and probably doesnt have as much air in it as other mediums might.
I have never thought about using an air stone in a glass of water, I guess your doing that to increase humidity. That may be the issue, if its too humid then the plant doesn't feel the need to grow roots because its absorbing so much h2o from the humid environment.
I would lower the temp within the dome, if its air temp your taking readings from then the root temp could well be even higher due to the way the heat mats work in propagators.
I would lower the humidity but getting rid of the air stone and glass of water. Spray the clones when you first take put them in there, maybe twice a day for first few days and back off to once a day, if they are not wilting then they are getting enough spraying. After day 4 crack the lid on the dome and keep an eye on them. By day 7-10 you should have roots.
If all else fails you can change your medium, I have used all sorts with 99% success, but what I find really simple is a seed cell tray with an inch or two of perlite in each, I space the clones out one in a cell one empty, then I put straight tap water into the bottom of the propagator, the perlite wicks it up around the stem but it also has oxygen due to the shape of the perlite so the stems stay healthy and never rot. The humidity stays high enough that I don't even have to put the lid on the propagator. They don't even wilt at all and have had 100% success (maybe 99.5) .
Click to expand...

Hi Corey,

When you say on day 4, crack the lid open and keep an eye on them do you mean remove the lid, or just put the lid on partially so that it gets more airflow?
 
M

mjinc

Well-Known Member
Dragon888 said:
Hi all!

I was hoping someone could assist me as I go along, I have bad results from my rockwool clones.

I have heated propagation domes as well as a standard plastic large dome, with a heat mat on a thermostat and digital thermometer, as well as a air pump at my disposal.

I would say, if I had to put 16 clones in the more successful chamber, being the large plastic chamber with the heat pad, I would get about 3 successful clones after about 4 weeks only. The rest just stay alive but do not root, otherwise, they just die of dampning off.

My procedure:

*Cut off nice vigorous cuttings at about the 3rd node down with scissors. I then scrape off some outer stem layer, and dip in clone gel

*Cut off half the leaf span

*I put them all in rockwool which was run under tap water. I am not sure what pH the water is, but in South Africa, we have of the best tap water in the world *apparently* (I give the rockwool a swing to rid excess water)

*I then put the clones in my dome, mist it slightly, and have a glass of water in, with an air stone bubbling fresh air into the water/dome

The root zone temperature is about 28deg celcius, and the air temperature about 26deg celcius.

What am I doing wrong to only get about 4 successful clones out of 16 clones?

If someone could guide me and I will follow parameters and see if there is any change.

Oh, the clones are under x2 18w fluorescent grow tubes..

Assistance would be GREATLY appreciated!

I will post pictures in the next few hours when I get home.
Click to expand...
Just a few questions. DO you soak your rockwool in ph adjusted water before use? Also what rockwool do you use? I know that in SA a few hydro shops sell some dodgy brand rockwool. Do you monitor your humidity in the dome? Check out your clone gel expiry date, a friend in Jozi found his had expired but also always put some of the gel in a small container and use it from there don't use your clones direct from the bottle.
 
coreywebster

coreywebster

Well-Known Member
Dragon888 said:
Hi Corey,

When you say on day 4, crack the lid open and keep an eye on them do you mean remove the lid, or just put the lid on partially so that it gets more airflow?
Click to expand...
Yeah just have lid partially on, mainly for less humidity. If you have vents in the lid like some do you can just open those instead. If not just wedge it open a bit or something.
 
D

Dragon888

Active Member
@mjinc : I did nit soak it in pH adjusted water, as I thought that South African tap water would be fine to adjust it, but I see the alkaline in the rockwool (I just tested) is way overpowering. I have just soaked a bunch of cubes in pH5.5, and will test the water tomorrow again to see. I have never thought of adjusting the pH of rockwool... but now I am going for it. Does this make much difference?

I use cultilene cubes.

I do not have means to measure the humidity in the domes. What kind of hygrometer works well in there? Il go get one some time, il check out the options available to me..if you know of something good, please do let me know.

I use the redish gel from the horticulture shop hey, the one which smells like halitosis...

@Corey : I will do just that. My new batch of clones, I will follow your instructions based on previous rockwool, and then see how things work out.

I will post updates as I go along. :)
 
M

mjinc

Well-Known Member
Dragon888 said:
@mjinc : I did nit soak it in pH adjusted water, as I thought that South African tap water would be fine to adjust it, but I see the alkaline in the rockwool (I just tested) is way overpowering. I have just soaked a bunch of cubes in pH5.5, and will test the water tomorrow again to see. I have never thought of adjusting the pH of rockwool... but now I am going for it. Does this make much difference?

I use cultilene cubes.

I do not have means to measure the humidity in the domes. What kind of hygrometer works well in there? Il go get one some time, il check out the options available to me..if you know of something good, please do let me know.

I use the redish gel from the horticulture shop hey, the one which smells like halitosis...

@Corey : I will do just that. My new batch of clones, I will follow your instructions based on previous rockwool, and then see how things work out.

I will post updates as I go along. :)
Click to expand...
Cutilene are decent rockwool cubes from Holland at a very good price though I prefer the Grodan/Pargro range. Problem is they're a pain to get Grodan in SA and many stores charge an arm and a leg(saw guys selling the 6" blocks for R120-R135 when they go for R25 in the US).

Preparing your rockwool before cloning is a huge part of getting things right. What I like to do is soak the rockwool cubes in 5.5 PH adjusted water for a day, drain the water carefully, replace with a light ph adjusted nutrient strength solution, give the cube a little shake to remove any excess water and then use them. Don't every squeeze rockwool cubes hard, it damages the internal structure.
 
D

Dragon888

Active Member
@mjinc

I thought that rockwool is not a variable product , and that you don't get much varying quality.

I will check the pH of my current situation that are soaking now (the ones I put in lastnight).

What pH should I be aiming to achieve with my rockwool?
 
M

mjinc

Well-Known Member
Dragon888 said:
@mjinc

I thought that rockwool is not a variable product , and that you don't get much varying quality.

I will check the pH of my current situation that are soaking now (the ones I put in lastnight).

What pH should I be aiming to achieve with my rockwool?
Click to expand...
Like all things with manufacturing you get different results. Grodan products have always been very consistent for me so I stick with them but Cultilene is still a decent brand and you shouldn't have any problems with them, there just not as big a company.

You'll find cubes out of the box tend to be around ph 7.8 which is pretty high. Ideally you want your cube to be about 5.8-6.0 so soaking them in 5.0-5.5 should bring them down to the levels you are looking for.but it's always best to test things out with a ph pen so you can adjust accordingly.
 
D

Dragon888

Active Member
I still need to purchase a pH pen.

I was going to do so mong ago, but then from my reviews online, the general consensus was that pH pens do not last.

Do you agree? I would love one, but don't want to buy something that will break 3 months down the line....
 
M

mjinc

Well-Known Member
Don't buy a cheap pen or you may run into problems. Had a Hannah for a couple of years and worked fine and now use a blue lab one that I haven't had any problems with. Just treat them well, keep them clean, calibrate them from time to time and keep a replacement probe.
 
D

Dragon888

Active Member
Okay, so I have just taken 6 cuttings with the new batch of rockwool, pH'd and added a tiny bit of micro nutrient mix in and veg mix in, just a very tiny bit, did not even change colour of the water, and then I mixed some rooting powder in the water too.

Took cuttings as per normal, except, this time I had used a blade instead of scissors. Put them in the humidity dome at the root zone temperature about 23 degrees celcius(73.4f) down from 28degrees celcius.

I have given them a misting, ando closed the dome.

I have removed the glass of water and the air stone.

I wI'll mist them in the morning before work, and then after work again, for the first 4 days, and then back down to once a day on day 5 onwards, whilst leaving the lid of the dome off very slightly.

I will keep you updated.. I'm really excited to see the difference. I'm gonna throw a party if I see roots at day 10.

Usually I see one or two tiny roots at day 30... if any at all...

@mjinc and @coreywebster , thank you for your help this far.

Please stick around!!! :)
 
D

Dragon888

Active Member
So the success rate was 100%!!!

Even the other old clones which were sitting there from a previous batch started rooting, I am so proud!

Thank you so much for your help!!!

Funny enough there is a wedding tomorrow with a huge amount of drinking I believe!

You are not from SA perhaps..?
 
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