Root Development vs Plant Growth

DND

DND

Well-Known Member
newbutpersistent said:
lets think about this logically, in the photosynthesis equation given a cuople of pages back, there is only CO2 and H2O and energy need to photsynthesize. the plant then uses the sugars produced from the photosynthesis to grow. what if that isn't the only process used to create useful sugars for the plant? If all you need is carbon, oxygen and hydrogen, coudn't there be another process that uses O2, carbon and H2O to photosynthesize?
This may be implausable, it's been a while since I took chemistry.

However, the empirical data is that plants do better with more O2 provided to the roots. Now knowing this, regardless of knowing HOW the plant uses the oxygen. Is it not concievable (at least as a grounds for some experimentation) that a plant which has CO2 available to the root system, if not taking the CO2 directly to the upward growth, could bond the CO2 to something which will take the Carbon atom, and result in O2 as a byproduct? This very well could be one of the myriad of processes that a plant undergoes, just happening to reult in useful O2. Nature's kind of good at multi-tasking like that.

On a side note, what are the results of H2O2 being added to the soil (or hydro/aero solution)? Could the "free" O atom be neccesary (or at least useful) for some process in the roots?

Basically, I don't think there's enough data either way to prove or disprove this theory. Fourtunately, we don't absolutely need to know all the internal working of our plants. We only need to know what works. I think until we se some tests and results, we really can't solve this question. When I get my new grow room up and running, I might do a sideXsideXside comparison of CO2,H2O2, and plain H2O added to the soil.

Oh, and the plants are diong pretty good, budding seems to become along alot better than my last grow, and so far I haven't seen any signs of problems from the roots' close quarters. Hopefully pics in the next couple of days. I've got a friends digi for a few days so I'll try and take some good pics whlie I got it.

Good luck.
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I hate when someone posts an intelligent post and does not use spell check. LOL, just busting your balls... nice post.
 
skunkushybrid

skunkushybrid

New Member
silk said:
Well the statement isn't illogical just the premise. The best way I can explain is by asking you a question: What leads you to believe that the roots convert oxygen into co2? Carbon needs to be fixated to the o2 to become co2. But what the plant does is remove the carbon from the co2 and fixates it to what will be glucose.

So if your theory is correct than a plant will create co2 by adding carbon to o2 then it will then take the carbon back to create glucose. I think if this was the case it would have been discovered by Calvin and/or Benson. Check out some reading on the Calvin cycle also called the Calvin-Benson cycle. The branch of study is called "light independent reaction. I think if you investigate this further it will help you with many of your questions.
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Excellent, thankyou. This may be just the ticket.
 
skunkushybrid

skunkushybrid

New Member
I still haven't clicked your link silk, sorry about that... but I have been thinking a lot about where the carbon molecule comes from after it enters the roots.

My original theory derived from the human lung... I have done bits of reading on this... and all life on this planet is carbon based. Maybe a plants root system works a little like the human lung? The plant needs oxygen just like we do to survive, only it's lungs are under ground...

I've tried to find out (just, briefly) how oxygen gets a hold of the carbon molecule in the human lung... I believe you'd know, and this is a short cut to searching myself (the way I've always treated this site, if I can get away with it. :wink:). Plus, this will help anyone else checking the thread learn at the same time. what i did read, also said something about the oxygen pushing the blood around the body. Maybe this works the same way for the plants and Co2 is acquired from this process, whereby it is not expelled out of the plant, but rather just the unneeded oxygen is?
 
skunkushybrid

skunkushybrid

New Member
When we breathe in oxygen this helps to convert food into energy for our cells. Co2 is a by-product of this process. It is my belief that roots act in exactly the same way as our lungs, only the co2 is actually used by the plants too. the excess oxygen of this whole process is then ejected from the plant as the process continues.

Despite this, I can still see the question... why? why would the plant go to all this trouble... my only answer is, survival.

An abundance of oxygen to the roots causes massive growth rates, indeed can lead to suffocation of the plant if there isn't enough. The same can be said for an abundance of Co2 to the actual plant (in that it causes massive growth rates).
 
silk

silk

Well-Known Member
skunkushybrid said:
My original theory derived from the human lung... I have done bits of reading on this... and all life on this planet is carbon based. Maybe a plants root system works a little like the human lung?
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No the roots and veins in a plant are a vascular system which means they are more like our veins not our organs.


what i did read, also said something about the oxygen pushing the blood around the body. Maybe this works the same way for the plants and Co2 is acquired from this process, whereby it is not expelled out of the plant, but rather just the unneeded oxygen is?[/quote]

I think where you are going wrong is because you have observed oxygenated water in hydroponic systems. The purpose of oxygenating the water is to keep the nutrients and water from becoming stale and making them as most efficiently available to the plant without harming the plant.
 
silk

silk

Well-Known Member
skunkushybrid said:
Despite this, I can still see the question... why? why would the plant go to all this trouble... my only answer is, survival.
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If that was the case then a plant should be able to survive without absorbing co2 from the atmosphere. If there is no direct input of co2 a plant will dies just like if we don't have direct 02 we will dies.

An abundance of oxygen to the roots causes massive growth rates, indeed can lead to suffocation of the plant if there isn't enough. The same can be said for an abundance of Co2 to the actual plant (in that it causes massive growth rates).[/quote]

Yes the abundance to the plant... This would be outside of the plant not being created in the plant. In our bodies our nutritional profile is much more complicated. However if you were to look at one variable that would show you a significant trend in growth it would be calcium intake. People with regular access to dairy products are taller than those that do not.
 
daddychrisg

daddychrisg

Well-Known Member
However if you were to look at one variable that would show you a significant trend in growth it would be calcium intake. People with regular access to dairy products are taller than those that do not.

Man I hear ya loud and clear buddy, I just poured some Organic lowfat milk into my Res. We will find out if your theory is correct or not...Wish me luck!
 
silk

silk

Well-Known Member
daddychrisg said:
However if you were to look at one variable that would show you a significant trend in growth it would be calcium intake. People with regular access to dairy products are taller than those that do not.

Man I hear ya loud and clear buddy, I just poured some Organic lowfat milk into my Res. We will find out if your theory is correct or not...Wish me luck!
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You must be new to the internet! Good luck!
 
Evil Buddies

Evil Buddies

Ganja King
carbon is a waste product u burn wood u get carbon we breath oxygen and exhale co2. Seems to me u take the nutes out of things and u get carbon.
 
skunkushybrid

skunkushybrid

New Member
Well today is a good day for this experiment... I've made it to the skinny cola stage and the plants are about to enter what I like to call the fattening. Over the next 3 weeks these guys will/should swell right up. After all, this is what has happened every time I've grown this strain before... no difference, as of yet.

I'll post pic's later, along with the feed schedule for this week.
 
skunkushybrid

skunkushybrid

New Member
The first pic, you can see the skinny cola I was referring to. The second pic is an attempt at taking a pic of all the plants at once. The third pic' is of my final background plant. Which will be harvested at 42 days.

Here's the feed for this week into 9litres of water.

Sensi Bloom A, 32.5ml (3.61ml per litre)
Sensi Bloom B, 32.5ml (3.61ml per litre)
MET Bloom, 19ml (2.11ml per litre)
Fulvic Acid, 19ml (2.11ml per litre)
Barricade, 2ml (0.22ml per litre)
Carboload, 10ml (1.11ml per litre)
Cannazym, 22.5ml (2.5ml per litre)
B52, 32.5ml (3.61ml per litre)
Overdrive, 32.5ml (3.61ml per litre)

EC, 2.0

I've started the overdrive a little sooner than planned as I've run out of Big Bud. It's only 3-4 days out, so I don't think it'll make much difference.
 

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skunkushybrid

skunkushybrid

New Member
As we can see from the pic's the outside of the medium is covered in dense thick root, while inside tells a different story.

It's as though the roots have deliberately searched out the sides of the pot... maybe because of their natural instinct to stretch out in search of food...

Although, at what point is it that roots realise that they don't need to search anymore? That they settle down like a tamed animal and just allow themselves to be hand fed?
 

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N

newbutpersistent

Well-Known Member
silk -
You must be new to the internet! Good luck!

lol, you're a funny dude

skunk -

I'm not so sure about the plants needing oxygen like humans. Nature tends to create symbiotic relationships wherever possible. think about it, all animal life on earth (excluding some recently discovered micro-organisms) requires oxygen to live, and they expel CO2; where as all plant life requires CO2 and expels oxygen. Neither one can sustain independently, they need each other to survive. Now this is not saying that the plants don't need oxygen, i believe that the different experiments we've been talking about shows that it does play some role in the plants development. I would tend to believe that it is some other process, not necessarily the same process (at least not exactly the same, although possibly related) as what the plant does with CO2. Now saying this, could the plants roots uptake CO2 directly? If so, this could be a cheap and easy alternative for some one like me who doesn't have the funds or the space to put a CO2 system in the grow room. Same thing with H2O2, this may be an easy way to get oxygen to the roots. From what I've read, one of the reasons that rainwater is so good for the plants is because it naturally has H2O2 in it. I think I'm going to pick up some seltzer today and do my own experimentation. Also, I don't know too much about it and I think it may be off the market, but they used to make this stuff called "solidox" which was used for welding, supposedly it was solid oxygen in some form. I don't know if it would be possible to use (even if it's still available), it's likely that it requires energy or some other physical reaction to free to oxygen molecules. But that would be great, a form of oxygen that could fed to soil-grown plants (or even hydro).

p.s. spell check, ohhhh yeeeaaahhhhh:hump:.
 
daddychrisg

daddychrisg

Well-Known Member
Milk- It does a buddy good!

Hey Skunk, I noticed that you have some curling on your lower Shade leafs. Is that heat stress? I could not see the problem on the newer growth so it made wonder what was up. Mabey they just need alittle 2% in there diet, about 2 mil per liter for foliar, and 30ml per gal per feed.
 
N

newbutpersistent

Well-Known Member
Okay, I'm honestly not trying to be a dick or anything.
Was that a joke post (the milk one) or is that a serious idea?
i haven't heard anything about milk being an additive, but if there's merit to it could you explain a little more, help me understand.
 
daddychrisg

daddychrisg

Well-Known Member
Well @ different stages of growth you will have to use different fat levels of milk starting with your clones you will want a thinner solution, so 1% works well. Later you will graduate up to whipping cream. NOOOOOooo dude please don't feed any dairy products to your plants! I am just being a wise guy, now please don't listen to my humor with out taking just as that, a joke. I thought Skunky could use some comedic relief during this wonderful experimental grow. Hope all your fingers are sticky like mine!
 
skunkushybrid

skunkushybrid

New Member
I noticed that myself... but assumed it happened while the plant was shorter. I had the light too close and the big fan was left off at first lights on for too long a couple of times. I have them all on auto now.

...i'm drinking the milk now.:mrgreen:
 
silk

silk

Well-Known Member
skunkushybrid said:
Yes... this was how i imagined it. Like a fail-safe for low co2...

Have plants been tested in just a pure oxygen environment before?
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Yes, and various unnatural atmosphere mixes; animals have been too. Pure oxygen will kill anything including coach roaches and Twinkies.

So back to the calvin cycle. The research basically tracked how carbon entered the plant and how it moved throughout the plant system. So if a plant was not recieving Co2 than it would have to get carbon from another source which would be from it's very structure or the glucose it has made from photosynthesis. However the plant can't photosynthesize without co2... and light and water.
 
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