Root problem AGAIN? *PICS*

gvega187

gvega187

Well-Known Member
hey, so I have had this problem before...a lot. I have theorized that something is wrong with ONE of these things:

a) my temperature around the root space (68-70, while i am awake, possibly dips down to 60 for few hours while im sleepin) *not probable*

b) ph fluctuations (actually only for about 4 hrs ph was 4.7)

c) cheaper ph down i have been using lately. (Pro brand?)

d)temperature fluctuations in the grow room altogether. (no lower than 65, almost always 68-72) *water temp. fluctuations are identical*

*note* roots looked very healthy until they began extending beyond the netpots in past 1.5 days as seen in pics...tips are now basically dead looking, coming to a point of brownness.

Let me know what u think. Heres the pics:
 

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DND

DND

Well-Known Member
LIGHT! Trust me on this one man. It looks like you are using a grey tub for DWC right? I was doing the exact thing and my roots were doing it too. I finally bought another tub and spray painted it flat black and started using it. I was not only getting brown spots, but also slime on my roots. Nasty stuff...since I changed tubs though, I have not gotten any browning, slime and my roots are healthier than ever. I'll post a picture tomorrow, seriously the only brown on my roots is from the previous damage. Also, lower the water to 1-1.5" if you haven't already.
 
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stickyicky77

Well-Known Member
Make sure you keep the pH at 5.8 and make sure your air pump is working and your air stone is not clogged. Clean the rez when you change the nutes and keep light out of it. You might want to flush with some H202 and distilled water to try and clear it up. You also might want to think about starting to using some SubCulture and Hydroguard.
 
gvega187

gvega187

Well-Known Member
stickyicky77 said:
Make sure you keep the pH at 5.8 and make sure your air pump is working and your air stone is not clogged. Clean the rez when you change the nutes and keep light out of it. You might want to flush with some H202 and distilled water to try and clear it up. You also might want to think about starting to using some SubCulture and Hydroguard.
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ahh yes forgot to mention I flush every 7 days, nothing is clogged, I use GH florasheild, h2o2 and stopped using hygrozyme as it usually expedites my problems.

I think maybe somehow the light is still getting through thou. Mylar covers parts of the top, but probably not enough. Roots are still very healthy except for the tips....

Any thoughts on my temperatures?
 
gvega187

gvega187

Well-Known Member
DND said:
LIGHT! Trust me on this one man. It looks like you are using a grey tub for DWC right? I was doing the exact thing and my roots were doing it too. I finally bought another tub and spray painted it flat black and started using it. I was not only getting brown spots, but also slime on my roots. Nasty stuff...since I changed tubs though, I have not gotten any browning, slime and my roots are healthier than ever. I'll post a picture tomorrow, seriously the only brown on my roots is from the previous damage. Also, lower the water to 1-1.5" if you haven't already.
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why is the lowering of the water necessary?
 
DND

DND

Well-Known Member
Temps if you listed them correctly are fine... 68-70 is perfect.

I used aluminum duct tape (had some sitting around) and used that to do the entire tub before I spray painted and it still wasn't enough. Spray paint the tub flat black and you are golden my friend.
 
G

groprofosho

Well-Known Member
Intuition is telling me your ppm's are too high. IF your ph and water temps are good, its ppm. Lower ppms will allow more 02 to be available to the roots, and i think its just generally burning the roots. Try keeping your ppm's at 150 to 250 until they get fairly large. dont lower the water too much. i used to lower the water but if you deal with the underlying issue you wont have to. Lowering the water means the plant has less water to buffer. This means more fluctuations in ppm, ph, and water temps, leading to decreased o2 availability. I use huge 30 gallon rubbermaids and the water level is up to an inch under my netpot, no problem. By the way for lightproofing your buckets nothing beats black 10mm construction plastic available at any home improvement store.
 
gvega187

gvega187

Well-Known Member
groprofosho said:
Intuition is telling me your ppm's are too high. IF your ph and water temps are good, its ppm. Lower ppms will allow more 02 to be available to the roots, and i think its just generally burning the roots. Try keeping your ppm's at 150 to 250 until they get fairly large. dont lower the water too much. i used to lower the water but if you deal with the underlying issue you wont have to. Lowering the water means the plant has less water to buffer. This means more fluctuations in ppm, ph, and water temps, leading to decreased o2 availability. I use huge 30 gallon rubbermaids and the water level is up to an inch under my netpot, no problem. By the way for lightproofing your buckets nothing beats black 10mm construction plastic available at any home improvement store.
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oh yeah how could i forget. Ppm has only reached a maximum of 250 since these babies began. Thanks for the ideas guys, but still not sure exactly what is going on. I will let you guys know if the problem solves itself.
 
bwinn27

bwinn27

Well-Known Member
looks like the roots are staying wet for to long whats your timer on? and what strength nutrients are you useng
 
gvega187

gvega187

Well-Known Member
yes, I thought this was the issue last time, so i changed drippers to 4 min off 1 minute on. The 6 plants in that system are still dying at fast rate the SAME way. I will move the timer to my new system (one pictured in this thread) and see if it changes anything.

I think it has to do with temperatures somehow. I have never had such widespread crop failure since trying to grow in the winter. (3 different types of hydro systems and similar root death eeach time). Normally in the summer my room temps were about 10 degrees higher...and NEVER had problems like this....could still be something else however.
 
gvega187

gvega187

Well-Known Member
okay, big news today. I took out my last healthy clone from its tray. My intention was to put it in the same drip system and see if i could eliminate ph and overwatering from the equation.

As soon as I lifted the clone out of the tray I could tell it already had the same problem as my drip roots. The tips were kinda of burnt off in exactly the same way.

Since no ph down or nutrients are used in cloning i have determined that temperature must be the problem...

I thought u guys said my temps were cool beans.

room temp-65-72
water temp-69-73...i don't let it get to 75 ever. ???????????????????????
 
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stickyicky77

Well-Known Member
gvega187 said:
okay, big news today. I took out my last healthy clone from its tray. My intention was to put it in the same drip system and see if i could eliminate ph and overwatering from the equation.

As soon as I lifted the clone out of the tray I could tell it already had the same problem as my drip roots. The tips were kinda of burnt off in exactly the same way.

Since no ph down or nutrients are used in cloning i have determined that temperature must be the problem...

I thought u guys said my temps were cool beans.

room temp-65-72
water temp-69-73...i don't let it get to 75 ever. ???????????????????????
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I use distilled water with a pH of 5.5 and some clonex clone nute solution and soak the rock wool cubes in it over night. When i take my cutting i use the clonex gel and put them in the presoaked cubes, that way they have some available nutes to feed on when they start to root. They need a minimum amount of nitrogen and increased levels of phosphorus to promote good root growth when rooting clones. I do not put any water or solution in the bottom of the tray. Instead i have my solution in a large picture and i dip the edge of the rock wool cubes in the picture when i feed them. That way the cubes soak up the right amount of the solution and they do not get over watered and they are not sitting in it which could cause the roots to start to rot. Your clones roots can be damaged if your medium goes over 85 F. A warmer substrate increases root growth and lower air temps slows transpiration. For the best results keep your growing medium between 75-80 F and keep the air temp 5-10 degrees cooler than the growing medium. A warmer growing medium coupled with a cooler ambient temps slows diseases and conserves moisture. Check out AL.B clone journal it my help https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/15030-batch-clones-rockwool.html
 
gvega187

gvega187

Well-Known Member
stickyicky77 said:
I use distilled water with a pH of 5.5 and some clonex clone nute solution and soak the rock wool cubes in it over night. When i take my cutting i use the clonex gel and put them in the presoaked cubes, that way they have some available nutes to feed on when they start to root. They need a minimum amount of nitrogen and increased levels of phosphorus to promote good root growth when rooting clones. I do not put any water or solution in the bottom of the tray. Instead i have my solution in a large picture and i dip the edge of the rock wool cubes in the picture when i feed them. That way the cubes soak up the right amount of the solution and they do not get over watered and they are not sitting in it which could cause the roots to start to rot. Your clones roots can be damaged if your medium goes over 85 F. A warmer substrate increases root growth and lower air temps slows transpiration. For the best results keep your growing medium between 75-80 F and keep the air temp 5-10 degrees cooler than the growing medium. A warmer growing medium coupled with a cooler ambient temps slows diseases and conserves moisture. Check out AL.B clone journal it my help https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/15030-batch-clones-rockwool.html
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lol, yes i have read pretty much everything that al.b fuct has posted...ever. I appreciate the cloning tips, but normally I have about a 90% success rate of cloning. The clones I had were all great with no sign of root damage until the same 1-2 day period when the drip system had the root damage occur in the same fashion. Since the two systems are in the same 4 foot radius I am guessing the problem has to do with the not so perfect temperature they experience. It is possible the room reached a lower than 60 degree mark one night last week. I am currently testing this as my last variable by placing 1 more clone into a room that is consistently 75 degrees...*crosses fingers*
 
Dr.dirt

Dr.dirt

Well-Known Member
Like DND said, light. If your roots are slimy it's probably algae from the light getting thur the rubbermaid. Like everyone else said, paint it black.
 
gvega187

gvega187

Well-Known Member
Dr.dirt said:
Like DND said, light. If your roots are slimy it's probably algae from the light getting thur the rubbermaid. Like everyone else said, paint it black.
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k, not to be an ass, but I noticed what everyone else said.

1) The clone had only been in the extremely clean and mylar covered drip system for 3 days before the roots got the damage(pictured). It is virtually impossible for that tub to get algae or "slime" in that short amount of time.

2) as i stated before I have had this problem in 3 completely DIFFERENT systems. This means GH aeroponic system, drip system another drip system and a clone tray. This is why I am guessing that it is a temperature related problem. (root problem occurs in any system i use)

3)I know what algae and "slime" looks like...this time around I have neither of these issues.

At this point it really MUST be temperature or over watering. I am testing the over watering variable right now.

thanks for everyones help really...ill report back soon.
 
Dr.dirt

Dr.dirt

Well-Known Member
gvega187 said:
k, not to be an ass, but I noticed what everyone else said.

1) The clone had only been in the extremely clean and mylar covered drip system for 3 days before the roots got the damage(pictured). It is virtually impossible for that tub to get algae or "slime" in that short amount of time.

2) as i stated before I have had this problem in 3 completely DIFFERENT systems. This means GH aeroponic system, drip system another drip system and a clone tray. This is why I am guessing that it is a temperature related problem. (root problem occurs in any system i use)

3)I know what algae and "slime" looks like...this time around I have neither of these issues.

At this point it really MUST be temperature or over watering. I am testing the over watering variable right now.

thanks for everyones help really...ill report back soon.
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I'm sorry I thought I read somewhere that you said the roots were slimy. But it is totally possible for algae to grow in 3 days, but since you ruled that out whatevs. good luck, hope they pull through:leaf:
 
bwinn27

bwinn27

Well-Known Member
i dont know if you said it or not but do you use tap water? i use a clorine remover and let my water sit out for 24 hours because clorine will burn your roots like that. if i dont use the clorine remover i let the water sit out for 3 or 4 days before giving it to the plants just a thought hope it helps
 
gvega187

gvega187

Well-Known Member
bwinn27 said:
i dont know if you said it or not but do you use tap water? i use a clorine remover and let my water sit out for 24 hours because clorine will burn your roots like that. if i dont use the clorine remover i let the water sit out for 3 or 4 days before giving it to the plants just a thought hope it helps
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Intersting bwinn...I have been considering this as a variable lately as well. I have always used my well water, which has a default of 10 ppm. The reason I have not considered the water a problem until now is because it (the water) has worked for me very well in the past...several times. So you just put a bucket aside with proper amount of h2o and let chlorine dissipate? Does chlorine remover have any adverse effects on plants or add ppm etc? Not sure if it is a factor for me, but I would love to eliminate it as one.

Good news is the roots appear to be partially recovering themselves after a few minor changes. The problem is that the new roots appear to be be burning the root tips just like the previous pics. (roots r from same plant). Now I believe that overwatering has become an issue beacuse my damn timer broke... I have one of those expensive $100 CAP 4-1 timers. Neways sometimes it decides to go thru its on cycle 2-6 times instead of once...ugg..hopefully a series of miracles will occur that keep the timer on a descent schedule. Ordering a new one this week.
 

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gvega187

gvega187

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roots are still growing with a vengeance and i am loving it. This is the first successful set of roots I have maintained in over 2 months. You can even see the other ones in the background FINALLY starting to poke out of their nets.

Temperature fluctuations and over watering were my issues as far as I can tell.

Basically once my room reaches over 72 degrees my water temps try to tag along. Since I do not own a chiller I just vent my room out until the water temp goes down as well.

This method is not good as u usually end up using ice cubes (uknown h2o content as well as ppm) and requires a constant watch. Other than that my timer broke and there is really nothing I can do about that. CAP is replacing the timer this week sometime.

QUESTION

1) I am new to drip systems and was wondering when would be a good time to let the roots hit the water. They are reaching out like social services, but I think they like the space...any thoughts? :blsmoke:
 

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