Russia wins!

Jimdamick

Jimdamick

Well-Known Member
The last Ukraine troops have left the embattled city of Debaltseve, retreating after Putin recommended it and the rebels demanded it, in spite of an agreement signed Sunday by all parties that required all combatants to surrender heavy weapons, and stop attacks.
Is this a problem? I mean that Russia actually invaded a neighboring sovereign country, annexing 1/3, arming rebels with superior and advanced weaponry( Dutch airliner comes to mind), then has the balls to say that Russia, or Putin himself has no idea what the West is talking about as far as support goes. Holy Shit.
Oh, I get it! The Ukraine isn't a part of NATO, they aren't part of the fucking club. This is absolute bull shit, but I guess they are just following the USA' s lead in de-stabilizing countries when they feel it is important to themselves.
So who is to argue when a country takes land that they have no right to, say the US, GB, or Israel. They did it, and do it, so why can't I. Because it is wrong, and should/will lead to sanctions (Israel next) up Russia's ass. Good, starve the motherfuckers, and let him know that the time of the Romanovs, is dead and fucking over.
 
Doer

Doer

Well-Known Member
Jimdamick said:
The last Ukraine troops have left the embattled city of Debaltseve, retreating after Putin recommended it and the rebels demanded it, in spite of an agreement signed Sunday by all parties that required all combatants to surrender heavy weapons, and stop attacks.
Is this a problem? I mean that Russia actually invaded a neighboring sovereign country, annexing 1/3, arming rebels with superior and advanced weaponry( Dutch airliner comes to mind), then has the balls to say that Russia, or Putin himself has no idea what the West is talking about as far as support goes. Holy Shit.
Oh, I get it! The Ukraine isn't a part of NATO, they aren't part of the fucking club. This is absolute bull shit, but I guess they are just following the USA' s lead in de-stabilizing countries when they feel it is important to themselves.
So who is to argue when a country takes land that they have no right to, say the US, GB, or Israel. They did it, and do it, so why can't I. Because it is wrong, and should/will lead to sanctions (Israel next) up Russia's ass. Good, starve the motherfuckers, and let him know that the time of the Romanovs, is dead and fucking over.
Click to expand...

Might makes right for Sovereigns. There is no higher recourse. Might creates the relative calm we have in this world.
 
Jimdamick

Jimdamick

Well-Known Member
Doer said:
Might makes right for Sovereigns. There is no higher recourse. Might creates the relative calm we have in this world.
Click to expand...
Time for a toe to toe dance, it seems between NATO and the Russians. The Russkies are afraid of anymore defections from the old Soviet school of thought. Hungry and Poland come to mind as being recently in the news as far as awareness of this "New Russia" train of thought. I just am waiting to see how this whole economic boycott, travel restrictions, freezing of asset shit will work out. I just see more Russian hacks, and WW3 being fought online, via hacker ninja. The Russians are good at that shit, being debauchers historically.
 
N

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
Jimdamick said:
The last Ukraine troops have left the embattled city of Debaltseve, retreating after Putin recommended it and the rebels demanded it, in spite of an agreement signed Sunday by all parties that required all combatants to surrender heavy weapons, and stop attacks.
Is this a problem? I mean that Russia actually invaded a neighboring sovereign country, annexing 1/3, arming rebels with superior and advanced weaponry( Dutch airliner comes to mind), then has the balls to say that Russia, or Putin himself has no idea what the West is talking about as far as support goes. Holy Shit.
Oh, I get it! The Ukraine isn't a part of NATO, they aren't part of the fucking club. This is absolute bull shit, but I guess they are just following the USA' s lead in de-stabilizing countries when they feel it is important to themselves.
So who is to argue when a country takes land that they have no right to, say the US, GB, or Israel. They did it, and do it, so why can't I. Because it is wrong, and should/will lead to sanctions (Israel next) up Russia's ass. Good, starve the motherfuckers, and let him know that the time of the Romanovs, is dead and fucking over.
Click to expand...
If you really look into the facts, Russia did not invade a country, did not annex 1/3rd of anything and did not arm any of the "rebels".

Russia loaned some troops so that the people of Crimea could vote on their secession without the fear of US backed Ukrainian troops, and the vote stated that Crimea wanted to be a part of Russia again. OVERWHELMINGLY one sided vote. 95.5% of Crimean voters sided with Russia. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26606097 We call that "Self Determination" over here, and view it as a protected right.

The USA sponsored a coup on the fairly elected government of Ukraine http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2015/02/obama-america-brokered-deal-transition-power-ukraine.html in order to bring the country into the NATO fold and build a base there. Hmmm, perhaps these "rebels" you speak of are merely Ukrainians that are "rebelling" against Western Forces and not their own countrymen? Why do these so called Ukrainian forces speak English so well, so well in fact that you would swear this guy was from your neighborhood.

Know why the rebels have Russian arms? Because Russia is right next door and hell, Ukraine was part of Russia for oh, i dunno, 400+ years. Do you expect the rebels to be armed with some other countries arms? Hell I live all the way over here and I have an AK-47, a SKS, a Dragonov rifle, a Tokarev pistol, a Makrov pistol, a Mosin Nagant M1895 revolver, a Mosin Nagant '38 carbine and a Saga 12. Every one of them made in Russia. None of them were given to me by the Russian government. All other allegations have little evidence to support them.

Russian tanks? The only evidence is a picture, which has been proved to have actually come from the fight with Georgia years earlier. http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/14/world/europe/sifting-ukrainian-fact-from-ukrainian-fiction.html Hey, don't feel bad, even US Senators are having the wool pulled over their eyes. The media is playing their game, which is disinformation at the least, and outright lies for the most part.

Why is the US Army training forces over there? http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/us-army-start-training-ukrainian-troops-commander-28886666 isn't this reminiscent of how Vietnam got started? Send some "Advisers" over? A few at first, then 600, then...

This is all just Western propaganda. Russian sanctions hurt Europe more than it hurts Russia. China and Russia have recently stopped using the US dollar for trade between themselves, and have brokered the 2 largest energy deals in history. Russia will be supplying gas and oil to China by large pipelines that should be finished by 2016. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-11-10/russia-china-add-to-400-billion-gas-deal-with-accord. Iran is also in open trade with Russia.

Russia is coming up with its own SWIFT type of system. Currently SWIFT is how one country pays another country money. Once that is done, what would ever entice Russia and China to ever use dollars again in trade between themselves? The US is in decline, and the US Currency is on its way to being phased out. http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-09-10/what-petrodollar-russia-china-create-swift-alternative

The price of oil in Rubles hasn't changed much. IF Russia is hurting so bad from our sanctions , why did it purchase 21 tons of gold in December? http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/01/27/gold-imf-holdings-idUSL4N0V60WJ20150127

Russia has the least debt of any developed country. Unlike the US' Debt level of 110% of GDP, Russia has a 13% Debt to GDP ratio. More sanctions working as intended? http://www.tradingeconomics.com/russia/government-debt-to-gdp

We need to open our eyes on what is REALLY going on over there. US Imperialism cloaked in a veil of deceit.
 
Jimdamick

Jimdamick

Well-Known Member
Man, that was some good shit. Seriously, good argument. It's just too bad that the fucking world, except China, thinks that Russia should be fucked with, at this point by 2/3 of the worlds major economies. It's also funny to see the ruble become a new definition of "tunnel to hell for investors"
So, welcome to the new century,Putina, lot like the old one it appears, and I will be watching, expectantly, to see the shit that happens now in Eastern Europe. Go Moscow, fuck em all.
 
Doer

Doer

Well-Known Member
NoDrama said:
If you really look into the facts, Russia did not invade a country, did not annex 1/3rd of anything and did not arm any of the "rebels".

Russia loaned some troops so that the people of Crimea could vote on their secession without the fear of US backed Ukrainian troops, and the vote stated that Crimea wanted to be a part of Russia again. OVERWHELMINGLY one sided vote. 95.5% of Crimean voters sided with Russia. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26606097 We call that "Self Determination" over here, and view it as a protected right.

The USA sponsored a coup on the fairly elected government of Ukraine http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2015/02/obama-america-brokered-deal-transition-power-ukraine.html in order to bring the country into the NATO fold and build a base there. Hmmm, perhaps these "rebels" you speak of are merely Ukrainians that are "rebelling" against Western Forces and not their own countrymen? Why do these so called Ukrainian forces speak English so well, so well in fact that you would swear this guy was from your neighborhood.

Know why the rebels have Russian arms? Because Russia is right next door and hell, Ukraine was part of Russia for oh, i dunno, 400+ years. Do you expect the rebels to be armed with some other countries arms? Hell I live all the way over here and I have an AK-47, a SKS, a Dragonov rifle, a Tokarev pistol, a Makrov pistol, a Mosin Nagant M1895 revolver, a Mosin Nagant '38 carbine and a Saga 12. Every one of them made in Russia. None of them were given to me by the Russian government. All other allegations have little evidence to support them.

Russian tanks? The only evidence is a picture, which has been proved to have actually come from the fight with Georgia years earlier. http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/14/world/europe/sifting-ukrainian-fact-from-ukrainian-fiction.html Hey, don't feel bad, even US Senators are having the wool pulled over their eyes. The media is playing their game, which is disinformation at the least, and outright lies for the most part.

Why is the US Army training forces over there? http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/us-army-start-training-ukrainian-troops-commander-28886666 isn't this reminiscent of how Vietnam got started? Send some "Advisers" over? A few at first, then 600, then...

This is all just Western propaganda. Russian sanctions hurt Europe more than it hurts Russia. China and Russia have recently stopped using the US dollar for trade between themselves, and have brokered the 2 largest energy deals in history. Russia will be supplying gas and oil to China by large pipelines that should be finished by 2016. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-11-10/russia-china-add-to-400-billion-gas-deal-with-accord. Iran is also in open trade with Russia.

Russia is coming up with its own SWIFT type of system. Currently SWIFT is how one country pays another country money. Once that is done, what would ever entice Russia and China to ever use dollars again in trade between themselves? The US is in decline, and the US Currency is on its way to being phased out. http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-09-10/what-petrodollar-russia-china-create-swift-alternative

The price of oil in Rubles hasn't changed much. IF Russia is hurting so bad from our sanctions , why did it purchase 21 tons of gold in December? http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/01/27/gold-imf-holdings-idUSL4N0V60WJ20150127

Russia has the least debt of any developed country. Unlike the US' Debt level of 110% of GDP, Russia has a 13% Debt to GDP ratio. More sanctions working as intended? http://www.tradingeconomics.com/russia/government-debt-to-gdp

We need to open our eyes on what is REALLY going on over there. US Imperialism cloaked in a veil of deceit.
Click to expand...
This is BS. I watch it real time. I have a friend that was born in Cirmea. I have a team of engineers in Russia. that are suffering from massive inflation.

Russia is hurting. You simply have no idea. Capital is fleeing. The price of oil is way down. There is clear evidence before the UN, of Ordnance, not only shipped in from Russia, but also, fired into Ukranine from Russia, as artillery.

But, yeah, right. Prove it. Prove it. But, first you try to prove your outrageous, anti-American claims.

It is such hack thinking to describe the situation in this way. I have inside knowledge that you are completely mixed up.

One of my other guys is from Ukraine. BTW, another is from Nigeria. Both are dialed into their home countries. And I work with this every day. This is why I knew the London Cleaver Hacker was Nigerian, right off.

I have a better view. It is part of my job.
 
Doer

Doer

Well-Known Member
Jimdamick said:
Time for a toe to toe dance, it seems between NATO and the Russians. The Russkies are afraid of anymore defections from the old Soviet school of thought. Hungry and Poland come to mind as being recently in the news as far as awareness of this "New Russia" train of thought. I just am waiting to see how this whole economic boycott, travel restrictions, freezing of asset shit will work out. I just see more Russian hacks, and WW3 being fought online, via hacker ninja. The Russians are good at that shit, being debauchers historically.
Click to expand...
Russians indeed have a different morality. We have to understand that the USA military is not on the internet. Neither is the CIA, NSA, etc. They have their own thing.

Our US Companies however, are experiencing the usual Darwinism. Are you secure? First define secure? You don't know what you don't know.

And that's where my Company comes in. Security is hot hot hot.

Does this make us war profiteers? Corrupt? Part of the problem?

Mommie, what is part of the problem?

shut up kid, can't you see I'm counting money.
 
Doer

Doer

Well-Known Member
People are the same but cultures are vastly different, yet, somehow, propaganda remains the same all over. I was raised to believe, the USA never Started A War, and We never Lost a War. Yet, as soon as I was 18, I was Draft Worthy, for a war we started (our part) and in the end we lost, pulled out, with 50K dead. <oh well>

My friends in Russia, have somehow picked up the Iranian Peace Cry. Russia has Never Attacked Anyone! Some of our guys are seriously trying to tell us a Corp, this propaganda. So, I know this is out there and it comes from Putin's New Nationalism.

Never attacked anyone? Are you kidding me? "Well we had to liberate Poland, so WW2 doesn't count!" OH> REALLY>??

And we find, even if we don't count WW2, there is still:
- Afghanistan
- Finland
- Bessarabia
- etc

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_occupations_by_the_Soviet_Union
The Soviet Union demanded to move the Finnish border further away from Leningrad. The USSR also insisted that Finland lease the Hanko Peninsula (or similar territory at the entrance to the Gulf of Finland) for the creation of a Red Baltic Fleet naval base.[25] However, Finland refused and the Soviet Union invaded the country, initiating the Winter War.

The Soviet Union, which did not recognize the sovereignty of Romania over Bessarabia since the union of 1918, issued an ultimatum on 28 June 1940 demanding the evacuation of the Romanian military and administration from the territory it contested as well as from the northern part of the Romanian province of Bukovina.[26] Under pressure from Moscow and Berlin, the Romanian administration and armed forces retreated to avoid war. Adolf Hitler used Soviet occupation of Bessarabia as justification for German occupation of Yugoslavia and Greece and German attack on USSR.
 
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N

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
Doer said:
This is BS. I watch it real time. I have a friend that was born in Cirmea. I have a team of engineers in Russia. that are suffering from massive inflation.

Russia is hurting. You simply have no idea. Capital is fleeing. The price of oil is way down. There is clear evidence before the UN, of Ordnance, not only shipped in from Russia, but also, fired into Ukranine from Russia, as artillery.

But, yeah, right. Prove it. Prove it. But, first you try to prove your outrageous, anti-American claims.

It is such hack thinking to describe the situation in this way. I have inside knowledge that you are completely mixed up.

One of my other guys is from Ukraine. BTW, another is from Nigeria. Both are dialed into their home countries. And I work with this every day. This is why I knew the London Cleaver Hacker was Nigerian, right off.

I have a better view. It is part of my job.
Click to expand...
So basically, you know someone from Ukraine, so that means all the info you receive is better than the NYtimes, ABC news, Reuters, Bloomberg, and the BBC combined?
 
N

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
Doer said:
People are the same but cultures are vastly different, yet, somehow, propaganda remains the same all over. I was raised to believe, the USA never Started A War, and We never Lost a War. Yet, as soon as I was 18, I was Draft Worthy, for a war we started (our part) and in the end we lost, pulled out, with 50K dead. <oh well>

My friends in Russia, have somehow picked up the Iranian Peace Cry. Russia has Never Attacked Anyone! Some of our guys are seriously trying to tell us a Corp, this propaganda. So, I know this is out there and it comes from Putin's New Nationalism.

Never attacked anyone? Are you kidding me? "Well we had to liberate Poland, so WW2 doesn't count!" OH> REALLY>??

And we find, even if we don't count WW2, there is still:
- Afghanistan
- Finland
- Bessarabia
- etc

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_occupations_by_the_Soviet_Union
The Soviet Union demanded to move the Finnish border further away from Leningrad. The USSR also insisted that Finland lease the Hanko Peninsula (or similar territory at the entrance to the Gulf of Finland) for the creation of a Red Baltic Fleet naval base.[25] However, Finland refused and the Soviet Union invaded the country, initiating the Winter War.

The Soviet Union, which did not recognize the sovereignty of Romania over Bessarabia since the union of 1918, issued an ultimatum on 28 June 1940 demanding the evacuation of the Romanian military and administration from the territory it contested as well as from the northern part of the Romanian province of Bukovina.[26] Under pressure from Moscow and Berlin, the Romanian administration and armed forces retreated to avoid war. Adolf Hitler used Soviet occupation of Bessarabia as justification for German occupation of Yugoslavia and Greece and German attack on USSR.
Click to expand...
You do realize that when people say Russia has never attacked anyone that they are actually correct don't you? Russia as is currently governed is only 24 years old. Russia and the USSR are totally different countries, one of which does not exist any longer.

Were you asleep in 1991?
 
AlecTheGardener

AlecTheGardener

Well-Known Member
Doer said:
Russians indeed have a different morality. We have to understand that the USA military is not on the internet. Neither is the CIA, NSA, etc. They have their own thing.

Our US Companies however, are experiencing the usual Darwinism. Are you secure? First define secure? You don't know what you don't know.

And that's where my Company comes in. Security is hot hot hot.

Does this make us war profiteers? Corrupt? Part of the problem?

Mommie, what is part of the problem?

shut up kid, can't you see I'm counting money.
Click to expand...
Many classified computers are linked to an intranet, these workstations are the entry point.
NoDrama said:
You do realize that when people say Russia has never attacked anyone that they are actually correct don't you? Russia as is currently governed is only 24 years old. Russia and the USSR are totally different countries, one of which does not exist any longer.

Were you asleep in 1991?
Click to expand...
RT? The Kremlin financed pro-Putin 'news source.' I watch them sometimes also, it is pretty easy to see how they try to control information.

GDR troops think that they are fighting for communism and Putin. Sounds like they want the USSR back.

Totally different countries? Putin, an ex intelligence officer of the KGB. You know that after the wall fell only a few people shifted positions right?
 
Jimdamick

Jimdamick

Well-Known Member
NoDrama said:
You do realize that when people say Russia has never attacked anyone that they are actually correct don't you? Russia as is currently governed is only 24 years old. Russia and the USSR are totally different countries, one of which does not exist any longer.

Were you asleep in 1991?
Click to expand...
nit picker
 
N

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
AlecTheGardener said:
RT? The Kremlin financed pro-Putin 'news source.' I watch them sometimes also, it is pretty easy to see how they try to control information.

GDR troops think that they are fighting for communism and Putin. Sounds like they want the USSR back.

Totally different countries? Putin, an ex intelligence officer of the KGB. You know that after the wall fell only a few people shifted positions right?
Click to expand...
RT is Russian Propaganda TV, it speaks the same truth (and Lies) as a US network does. No better no worse, but they aren't my source. My source is the video they do the report on, the "Ukrainian " soldier who speaks perfect American English.

Putin doesn't want Communism, cite your claim please.
 
AlecTheGardener

AlecTheGardener

Well-Known Member
NoDrama said:
RT is Russian Propaganda TV, it speaks the same truth (and Lies) as a US network does. No better no worse, but they aren't my source. My source is the video they do the report on, the "Ukrainian " soldier who speaks perfect American English.

Putin doesn't want Communism, cite your claim please.
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There is a disconnect between Putin's public image and his crony capitalistic reality. They don't even realize he is using Russia as his private venture capital fund. Since the dissolution of the USSR every leader they have had has been a corrupt one, Yeltsin set up a corrupt dynasty, Putin made sure it stayed rooted. Notice how Russia starts to have problems and it's neighbors pay for it? Chechnya comes to mind.

I got my alphabet soup mixed up. PDR, GDR was East Germany.

The first full Government of the Donetsk People's Republic was appointed on 16 May 2014.[1] It consisted of several ministers who were previously Donetsk functionaries, a member of the MakiivkaCity Council, a former Donetsk prosecutor, a former member of the special police Alpha Group, a member of the Party of Regions (who allegedly coordinated "Titushky" (pro-Viktor Yanukovych hooligans) during Euromaidan) and Russian citizens.[1]The system of government is described by its deputy defense minister Fyodor Berezin as aiming to build as military communism.[94]

See NY times:
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/10/05/world/europe/rebels-in-eastern-ukraine-dream-of-reviving-soviet-heyday.html?_r=1&referrer=

I am genuinely curious why such an excellent English speaker is fighting in that gear. What the fuck is going on?

Edit for spelling.
 
Doer

Doer

Well-Known Member
NoDrama said:
So basically, you know someone from Ukraine, so that means all the info you receive is better than the NYtimes, ABC news, Reuters, Bloomberg, and the BBC combined?
Click to expand...
No need to decode it wrong. And you know how I feel about Press reporting in war time. Yep. We are always in War Time. Always told lies. So, if you asked me about the situation anywhere but there I will still be in a better position to find out. This one however, I get to see spreadsheets and commissioned reports, in addition to regular briefings and forecasts. We spend ten of Millions there, and my budget is over $1M.

I am way inside a Major MultiNational Computer Company as a Senior Manager. I am in regular communications, personally all the way to the top, specifically about Russia vis a vis Ukraine, and our presence in the future. I get to hear first hand, that the State Dept and Homeland Security are advising our Board of Directors, via letter. (that I only hear about the contents, so I don't actually see it) I only hear about what our Board is considering (so I don't really know)

It is not a Press theory of American Imperialism. It is Putin Internal Propaganda, that is making us consider carefully our investment, or to flee with the rest.

The folks that used to be so proud to work for us are seething and blaming us for not doubling their pay. We can't make them whole in this GeoEcon-Scirmish. Wouldn't be prudent.
 
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