Russians running yearslong Trolling operation to project their blame onto Ukraine.

Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Roger A. Shrubber said:
sorry, hard to find much to laugh at in this situation...
Click to expand...
Roger, Ukraine is not Denmark. I read your snuff fantasy about what you'd like to do to Russians and Putin in particular. Other than the part where Putin is disappeared, I strongly disagree.

Do you feel as if you really know why the parts of Ukraine that are ethnic Russian and Russian speaking were motivated to engage in 5 or more years of armed rebellion against the rest of Ukraine? I don't. Ukraine is a democracy but does not follow anything like the rule of law. It is a kleptocracy. A kleptocracy is a form of rule where people in a strong position just take what they want and anybody who resists goes to the pokey where conditions are not humane and prisoners are vulnerable to be rubbed out the strong. Sativied's scenario resonated with me -- the majority in Ukraine are like Trump's alt right neo-Nazi scrubs. Russian speaking people in Donetsk are a minority and fascists prey on the weak, That is the only scenario under which I can imagine a people WANTING to live under Putin's dictatorship. They are looking for protection. It's a shitty deal but I guess it's a better one than what they have.

I'm not bleeding in my heart for anybody there, other than the masses of people who just want to be safe and have the chance for a better life for their children.

That said, I support Biden and his willingness to use whatever non-violent actions available to the US against Putin's naked aggression.
 
Roger A. Shrubber

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
Roger, Ukraine is not Denmark. I read your snuff fantasy about what you'd like to do to Russians and Putin in particular. Other than the part where Putin is disappeared, I strongly disagree.

Do you feel as if you really know why the parts of Ukraine that are ethnic Russian and Russian speaking were motivated to engage in 5 or more years of armed rebellion against the rest of Ukraine? I don't. Ukraine is a democracy but does not follow anything like the rule of law. It is a kleptocracy. A kleptocracy is a form of rule where people in a strong position just take what they want and anybody who resists goes to the pokey where conditions are not humane and prisoners are vulnerable to be rubbed out the strong. Sativied's scenario resonated with me -- the majority in Ukraine are like Trump's alt right neo-Nazi scrubs. Russian speaking people in Donetsk are a minority and fascists prey on the weak, That is the only scenario under which I can imagine a people WANTING to live under Putin's dictatorship. They are looking for protection. It's a shitty deal but I guess it's a better one than what they have.

I'm not bleeding in my heart for anybody there, other than the masses of people who just want to be safe and have the chance for a better life for their children.

That said, I support Biden and his willingness to use whatever non-violent actions available to the US against Putin's naked aggression.
Click to expand...
ok, first, i don't want to kill russians at random...just a few very specific ones...the average russian is probably just trying to get along, and go with the information provided to them.
no, i don't know why they would want that, and i'll be honest, this isn't really about Ukraine to me, it's about putting putin in his place. i've never liked playground bullies, and that's what he is, with an army to back him up.
if a large enough segment want to go, let them, or you'll never be able to turn your back on them again...but it will only embolden putin, who will consolidate his new territories, then find another pretext to take over more territory...all the while waging a cyber war on most of the democratic world.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Roger A. Shrubber said:
ok, first, i don't want to kill russians at random...just a few very specific ones...the average russian is probably just trying to get along, and go with the information provided to them.
no, i don't know why they would want that, and i'll be honest, this isn't really about Ukraine to me, it's about putting putin in his place. i've never liked playground bullies, and that's what he is, with an army to back him up.
if a large enough segment want to go, let them, or you'll never be able to turn your back on them again...but it will only embolden putin, who will consolidate his new territories, then find another pretext to take over more territory...all the while waging a cyber war on most of the democratic world.
Click to expand...
Whatever. Rant on.
 
Kassiopeija

Kassiopeija

Well-Known Member
Unclebaldrick

Unclebaldrick

Well-Known Member
Kassiopeija said:
RT is propaganda but cencorship leads right into fascist "Gleichschaltung"

as if the US wouldn't do the same

en.m.wikipedia.org

Senate Report on Iraqi WMD Intelligence - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org en.m.wikipedia.org

en.m.wikipedia.org

Iraq and weapons of mass destruction - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org en.m.wikipedia.org
Click to expand...
I don't give a crap if it's on. I watch it myself. I just know better than to believe everything they say.

Oh, and I guess I am having a good laugh at the poseurs that do.

So edgy.

And trying to draw an equivalency between a propaganda mill with other news agencies who have made mistakes is a pretty fucking specious argument. But I've grown used to that. It too works well on people with poor reasoning skills.
 
Last edited:
Offmymeds

Offmymeds

Well-Known Member
Unclebaldrick said:
I don't give a crap if it's on. I watch it myself. I just know better than to believe everything they say.
Click to expand...
At least in the US many of us didn't believe the weapons of mass destruction BS and journalists did ask questions and dig for answers and followed up.

How do the Cheney's of the world get there? Dick, not Liz. I'm listening to "Corruptible". It's pretty interesting so far. The world is terrible at putting good leaders in positions of authority.
 
Rob Roy

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
Roger A. Shrubber said:
first, i don't want to kill russians at random...just a few very specific ones...t
Click to expand...
Then go do it, no need to involve millions of other people is there?

Your buddy, Trump felt the same way when he droned that Iranian General.
You and Trump been hanging out again?
 
hanimmal

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-business-europe-russia-vladimir-putin-46cef648807d0e3c2bac9793ad9022a6
Screen Shot 2022-02-22 at 10.29.28 AM.png
MOSCOW (AP) — The White House on Tuesday began referring to Russian troop deployments in eastern Ukraine as an “invasion” after initially hesitating to use the term — a red line that President Joe Biden has said would result in the U.S. levying severe sanctions against Moscow.

Several European leaders said earlier in the day that Russian troops have moved into rebel-held areas in eastern Ukraine after Russian President Vladimir Putin’s recognized their independence — but some indicated it was not yet the long-feared, full-fledged invasion.

Later, the White House signaled a shift in its own position.

“We think this is, yes, the beginning of an invasion, Russia’s latest invasion into Ukraine,” said Jon Finer, principal deputy national security adviser. “An invasion is an invasion and that is what is underway.”

The White House decided to begin referring to Russia’s actions as an “invasion” because of the situation on the ground, according to a U.S. official who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss internal deliberations.

The administration resisted initially calling the deployment of troops because the White House wanted to see what Russia was actually going to do. After assessing Russian troop movements, it became clear it was a new invasion, the official added.

White House press secretary Jen Psaki also alluded to the Russian action as being an invasion in a twitter post commenting on Germany chancellor Olaf Scholz decision to halt the Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline in response to Russia’s actions.

The U.S. president “made clear that if Russia invaded Ukraine, we would action would act with Germany to ensure Nord Stream 2 does not move forward,” Psaki said.

For weeks, Western powers have been bracing for an invasion as Russia massed an estimated 150,000 troops on three sides of neighboring Ukraine. They warned an attack would cause massive casualties, energy shortages in Europe and economic chaos around the globe — and promised swift and severe sanctions if it materialized. The European Union and Britain announced Tuesday that some of those measures were coming.

Western leaders have long warned Moscow would look for cover to invade — and just such a pretext appeared to come Monday, when Putin recognized as independent two separatist regions in eastern Ukraine, where government troops have fought Russia-backed rebels in a conflict that has killed over 14,000 people. The Kremlin then raised the stakes further Tuesday, by saying that recognition extends even to the large parts now held by Ukrainian forces.
https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-boris-johnson-soccer-sports-russia-ef234fc95690fa25d5a3272f3e4d0f95
Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said that Russia has recognized the rebel regions’ independence “in borders that existed when they proclaimed” their independence in 2014 — broad territories that extend far beyond the areas now under the rebel control and that include the major Black Sea port of Mariupol.

Putin’s move to recognize the territories’ independence opened the door for him to formalize his hold on them and send forces in, though Ukraine and its Western allies have charged Russian troops have been fighting there for years. Moscow denies those allegations.

Condemnation from around the world was quick. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said he would consider breaking diplomatic ties with Russia and Kyiv recalled its ambassador in Moscow.

But confusion over what exactly was happening in eastern Ukraine threatened to hobble a Western response. While the U.S. clearly called it an invasion, some other allies hedged.

“Russian troops have entered in Donbas,” the name for the area where the two separatist regions are located, EU foreign policy chief Josep Borrell said in Paris. “We consider Donbas part of Ukraine.”

But in a distinction that could complicate a European and Western response, he added: “I wouldn’t say that (it is) a fully fledged invasion, but Russian troops are on Ukrainian soil.”

Poland’s Defense Ministry and British Health Secretary Sajid Javid also said Russian forces had entered Ukraine’s east, with Javid telling Sky News that “the invasion of Ukraine has begun.”

Not all in Europe saw it that way. Spanish Foreign Minister José Manuel Albares noted “if Russia uses force against Ukraine, sanctions will be massive.”

The Kremlin hasn’t confirmed any troop deployments to the rebel east, saying it will depend on the security situation. Vladislav Brig, a member of the separatist local council in Donetsk, told reporters that the Russian troops already had moved in, but more senior rebel leaders didn’t confirm that. Late Monday, convoys of armored vehicles were seen rolling across the separatist-controlled territories. It wasn’t immediately clear if they were Russian.

In response to the moves thus far, top EU officials said the bloc was prepared to impose sanctions on several Russian officials and banks financing the Russian armed forces and move to limit Moscow’s access to EU capital and financial markets. They gave few details.

EU foreign ministers are meeting later Tuesday to discuss the measures — but they did not appear to include the massive punishment repeatedly promised in case of a full-fledged invasion.

British Prime Minister Boris Johnson also said the U.K. would slap sanctions on five Russian banks and three wealthy individuals.

While he said that Russian tanks have already rolled into eastern Ukraine, he warned a full-scale offensive would bring “further powerful sanctions.”

The White House has also moved to respond, issuing an executive order to prohibit U.S. investment and trade in the separatist regions, and additional measures — likely sanctions — were to be announced Tuesday. Those sanctions are independent of what Washington has prepared in the event of a Russian invasion, according to a senior administration official who briefed reporters on the condition of anonymity.

The Russian moves also pushed Germany to suspend the certification process for Nord Stream 2 pipeline that was to bring natural gas from Russia. The pipeline was built to help Germany meet its energy needs, particularly as it switches off its last three nuclear power plants and phases out the use of coal, and it has resisted calls by the U.S. and others to halt the project.

As world leaders scrambled to decide on their response, legislation that will likely set the stage for a deeper move into Ukrainian territory moved through Russia’s parliament.

The bills, which sailed quickly through the Kremlin-controlled parliament, envisage military ties between Moscow and the separatist regions, including possible deployment of Russian military bases in the separatist regions.

Even as alarm spread across the globe, Zelenskyy, the Ukrainian president, sought to project calm, telling the country in an address overnight: “We are not afraid of anyone or anything. We don’t owe anyone anything. And we won’t give anything to anyone.”

His foreign minister, Dmytro Kuleba, will be in Washington on Tuesday to meet with Secretary of State Antony Blinken, the State Department said.

Russia has long denied it has any plans to invade Ukraine, instead blaming the U.S. and its allies for the current crisis and describing Ukraine’s bid to join NATO as an existential challenge to Russia. Putin reiterated those accusations in an hourlong televised speech on Monday, when he announced that Russia would recognize the rebels.

“Ukraine’s membership in NATO poses a direct threat to Russia’s security,” he said.

Russia says it wants Western guarantees that NATO won’t allow Ukraine and other former Soviet countries to join as members. Moscow has also demanded the alliance halt weapons deployments to Ukraine and roll back its forces from Eastern Europe — demands flatly rejected by the West.

Putin warned Monday that the Western rejection of Moscow’s demands gives Russia the right to take other steps to protect its security.

Sweeping through more than a century of history, Putin painted today’s Ukraine as a modern construct used by the West to contain Russia despite the neighbors inextricable links.

In a stark warning to Ukraine, the Russian leader charged that it has unfairly inherited Russia’s historic land granted to it by the Communist rulers of the Soviet Union and mocked its effort to shed the Communist past in a so-called “decommunization” campaign.

“We are ready to show you what the real decommunization would mean for Ukraine,” Putin added ominously in an apparent signal of his readiness to raise new land claims.

Amid the soaring tensions, U.S. President Joe Biden and Putin tentatively agreed to a meeting in a last-ditch effort to avoid war. But the U.S. always said that if Russia moved in, the meeting would be off.
Click to expand...
Screen Shot 2022-02-22 at 10.30.32 AM.png
 
Kassiopeija

Kassiopeija

Well-Known Member
lol he's throwing a tantrum, now it's my fault or what geee is that amusing :wall:

anyway

Roger A. Shrubber said:
get fucked, your leader is about to commit murder on a grand scale, and you want to talk morals with me? bite my fucking hairy ass
Click to expand...
You Sir are VERY confused!

on that note - the

International law - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
gives a legitimacy of humans of Russian ethnicity to not be split apart from their cultural heritage etc (as a German, I must know somewhat)
Kievan-rus-1015-1113-(de).png
^^ Russia 1000 years ago

still it's bad they do it militaristically... Putin is also same corrupt warmonger
though I guess the people there will welcome the troopers yes

and bad now with Nord Stream, bad we send these Ukrainian separatist & neo-Nazi shitheads weapons & funds
as if we don't have better to do
why do we Germans always have to suffer between the entanglements if E & W?¿?

We could help build up Africa - 4bil ppl predicted at the end of this century. Create access to clean water (it's a fundamental human right) but no, the politicians need to play war.

Fuck that!
 
S

schuylaar

Well-Known Member
Kassiopeija said:
lol he's throwing a tantrum, now it's my fault or what geee is that amusing :wall:

anyway


You Sir are VERY confused!

on that note - the

International law - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
gives a legitimacy of humans of Russian ethnicity to not be split apart from their cultural heritage etc (as a German, I must know somewhat)
View attachment 5090118
^^ Russia 1000 years ago

still it's bad they do it militaristically... Putin is also same corrupt warmonger
though I guess the people there will welcome the troopers yes

and bad now with Nord Stream, bad we send these Ukrainian separatist & neo-Nazi shitheads weapons & funds
as if we don't have better to do
why do we Germans always have to suffer between the entanglements if E & W?¿?

We could help build up Africa - 4bil ppl predicted at the end of this century. Create access to clean water (it's a fundamental human right) but no, the politicians need to play war.

Fuck that!
Click to expand...
Why do the poor Germans have to suffer? Because Putin gave his wish list to Biden..guess Putin knows who's who.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top