Sedition and Treason

Fogdog said:

You speak in generalities yet votes are specific. The lawmakers I voted for, DeFazio, Wyden and Merkely are good progressive lawmakers. There is no reason to replace them and by doing so we would lose some good experienced people in DC.

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Fogdog said:

What has Bernie Sanders accomplished as a Senator?

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Padawanbater2 said:

You can't keep hiding behind your senators

This is about you, and what you actually believe moving forward. The elites/"leaders" of the Democratic party don't support progressive policy positions. If they did, they would endorse the same ideas said progressives support. So you don't get to claim you're progressive while supporting the candidates that endorse the progressive candidates opponent. You support the team. Not the message.

The Democratic Party [establishment] is mostly made up of corrupt politicians who accept special interest money to ensure they win against actual progressives.

"Should be returned..."

Sanders is the sole reason the Democratic party still has a chance in 2020. Without Sanders, Trump would win unequivocally, all things being equal.

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Fogdog said:

Again, I'm talking facts while you give opinion based upon belief.

I asked for names. You talk about Democratic elites. Who are they? What is their record on voting for progressive causes? How do they stack up against Republican counterparts? The worst leader in the party, Feinstein, still votes for progressive issues 80% of the time. The best Republican only votes for progressive issues 25% of the time. Your "replace dems and pubs" is ignorant and free of facts. The facts as shown in the Congressional Record is that Democrats have a good record of supporting progressive causes. Republicans are abysmal. The choice based upon facts is simple.

Do you want to see campaign finance reforms put in place? Vote Democrat. By now you should know that every Democratic Party Senator voted for campaign finance reform when it came up to a vote. Every Republican voted against it. Replace Democrats AND Republicans? Ignorant nonsense.

Sanders ship is taking on water. His Our Revolution is in disarray. They haven't won a single major election. Justice Democrats seem to have misspent 1.8 million dollars, where did that money go? As for Bernie himself, he hasn't accomplished anything important as a Senator, he lost by a whopping large margin in 2016 and he keeps alienating the very people he needs to vote for him should he run in 2020.

But I know you are going to reply with another bleat about some anonymous Elite Democrats who are as bad as Republicans. You are going to come back and say you believe in Sanders and his movement. You are going to say because of one vote on one issue by a few Democrats that the majority of Democrats are bad. You'll say that because for you, belief >>>> facts.

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SneekyNinja said:

They can't even answer where the Justice Democrats money is gone.

They harped on and on about how it was this "new force in politics" and how their financial disclosures are public...but when you ask about said public disclosures it's radio silence.

1.7mill on hand at the start of the year, 8000 on hand now, only 28000 donated to campaigns.

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SB85 said:

The corruption will continue, being as too many are stuck playing team politics. The people of the USA need to start holding politicians who accept funding from certain groups accountable.

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Rob Roy said:

How do you plan to hold a politician accountable?

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Sour Wreck said:

bullets?

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Unclebaldrick said:

Look around the world Tty. The few consensus that exist are bad ones.

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Andrewk420 said:

"The “We are America, bitch” posture appeals to chauvinistic instincts and the white supremacy that is a deeply rooted feature of American culture and is now exacerbated by concern that whites might even become a minority. The posture can also delude working people into believing that their tough-guy protector will bring back the world they’ve lost. Such propaganda exercises cannot, of course, target those actually responsible for the plight of the victims of neoliberal globalization. On the contrary, attention has to be diverted away from corporate managers who largely shape state policy while establishing complex global supply chains to maximize profit at the expense of working people. More appropriate targets are desperate people fleeing horrors for which we are largely responsible: “foreigners” who have been “robbing us” with the connivance of “treacherous liberals” and other assorted devils that can be conjured up in periods of social breakdown.

Allies, friends, who cares? There is no need for policies that are “coherent” in any traditional sense. Consequences don’t matter as long as the primary goals are met."

Say what you want about the man, but Noam Chomsky has a way of being so much more concise and poignant than anyone else I read.

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Fogdog said:

You speak in generalities yet votes are specific. The lawmakers I voted for, DeFazio, Wyden and Merkely are good progressive lawmakers. There is no reason to replace them and by doing so we would lose some good experienced people in DC.

This is why you sound like a tired old broken record.

The Democratic Party is mostly made up of progressive law makers that should be returned to office so fuck off with the "replace repubs and dems alike" nonsense.

Name names and we can talk about specifics. "people paid by special interests blah blah". What has Bernie Sanders accomplished as a Senator? How about we replace do-nothing Independents with progressive Democrats who can work with others to get things done? Maybe if Bernie has real opposition, he'd spend more time working for the people of this country instead of burnishing his image with basement dwelling boomerang millennials.

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Padawanbater2 said:

It's already been answered; funds went to candidates. Sorry you don't believe that, and can't provide the evidence it went elsewhere

JD and Our Revolution candidates have won around 50% of their races, which means your candidates have lost about 50% of theirs..

You've lost half your races while being an established party since the 1850s, we've won half of ours while being a party that actually represents the people, in 2 years...

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Fogdog said:

Evidence that funds went to candidates? what evidence? Do you mean the following evidence?

Based on data released by the FEC:
Total Receipts $1,815,318
Total Spent $1,807,029
Begin Cash on Hand $0
End Cash on Hand $8,289
Debts $0
Date of last report March 31, 2018

Here is an article on JD's corruption. It was written on January 12, so this isn't exactly something new:

https://medium.com/@investigator_21...ney-scam-to-defraud-progressives-63abbcf71be2
Are the Justice Democrats a money scam to defraud progressives?

What it does with the money it collects this way is unclear.

One thing is clear however: that money is not spend on candidates’ campaigns.

Now, I am sure this isn’t the whole story and some investigation would turn up more facts. But the one name that constantly pops up in this story is that of Cenk Uygur.

It’s not exactly wrong to state that he is someone who earns a LOT of money on what his brand is: attacking Democrats, stoking anger among progressives and primarying Democrats.

Although he speaks a lot about campaign finance reform, he owns and runs a number of PACs and doesn’t in any way, shape or form tell anyone how the money he collects from small donors is spend.

Transparency? Well, not from Cenk.

Regarding electoral success of Progressives(tm)

Sorry to say, Quasimoto, Our Revolution's own website says they've lost more than half of their, only a few were for major races. In those very few primaries that they won, OR hasn't actually won anything other than the nomination for the Democratic Party. Not only that but I can point to at least one candidate that Our Revolution endorsed after she was endorsed by the DCCC.

Of the 87 Our Revolution Primary or small offiice winners, 39 won, only 7 of those winners were candidates for a US Congressional primary. Seven candidates from Our Revolution. It's a little early to stop voting for other Democrats, isn't?

You and other Progressives(tm) have been sheared like sheep. Bernie has conducted an abysmal campaign since 2016 and you innocents had your pockets picked by Cenk and his "consultants".

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ttystikk said:

You're the tired old broken record who keeps defending a Democratic Party that doesn't give a fuck about anything but its own political advantage.

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Fogdog said:

So, tell me, how are Bernie and his supporters going to take control of Congress when only seven candidates are endorsed by them and have won their primaries? There are 435 seats in the House of Representatives. We need 218 seats occupied by Democrats to hold a majority. What exactly do you propose people do now?

Most Democrats in Congress are progressive according to their voting record and documented in the Congressional record. I voted for three of them. I want progressives to have a political advantage. I have no idea what you want.

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Padawanbater2 said:

You are alleging the money donated to JD was not spent on the candidates JD or Our Revolution endorsed. That's your positive claim.

Where is the evidence?

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Andrewk420 said:

I'll give you one for him from my home state: Senator Claire McCaskill.

If you think that merely voting dem ballots is going to fix the current state of affairs, your head is in the sand.

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Padawanbater2 said:

Progressives are going to take control of congress?

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Fogdog said:

Our Revolution is at this time sending seven people they endorsed to the House in 2019. That is assuming they all win. Progressives(tm) are 211 Representatives short of taking control of congress.

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