Seedling problem - tip discolouration and "turning up/inwards"

Hi

I am fairly new to growing, however am not a complete beginner. I am currently experiencing a problem with one seedling only (out of a fair few).

The strain is Cannatonic, germinated 2 weeks ago and has been growing well until the past 24-36 hours. Currently it is placed under 110W of cool fluorescent tubes, average canopy temperature 24-25 C, humidity 60-70, light schedule 17/7. There is another cannatonic seedling that is also showing slight signs of leaf patching although leaf shape appears to be normal.

Roughly 3 days ago a number of seedlings begun to show slight tip yellowing and slowed growth. I thus begun to feed them (starting 2 days ago), 1/8th strength sensi grow a & b to which they all responded well except for a few seedlings including the cannatonics. For the seedlings still looking hungry I stepped the solution up to 1/4 strength. Note: the cannatonic seedling in question was already showing signs of obscure curling prior to initiating 1/4 strength feeding. I thought the problem may be either: nutrient toxicity (so I have flushed the seedling with pH adjusted water roughly 2 hours ago) or potentially too much light (thought this was unlikely as all other seedlings are very happy).

I have attached some pics below which I hope help. I am planning to transplant all seedlings into organic soil in the next 4 days or so.

Thanks in advance for the advice.

Too much light.

Interesting and thanks very much for that. It baffles me as to only one out of ~15 seedlings may be showing such a sign when they are all under the same light at the same proximity?

There must be a hot spot, move them around.

110 W CFL's? "Too much light?"

I'm sorry. No, that's nonsense.
In case I missed it, what is the current medium? Just standard peat pucks?
What was the pH of your feed water up until this point? RO? Tap? If it's Tap water, is it hard water tap?
They look to be possibly venturing into lockout territory. Either an off pH or a feed mixture that is too Hot will do that to seedlings.

I would also highly recommend ditching the synthetic nutes in dirt. Do yourself a favor and stiick with organics in dirt!

whats the ambient temp? looks like they're hot maybe just back off the light a hair

the feeder leaves are still green u shouldnt be feeding them yet. thats fert burn/nitrogen toxicity.

dont feed till they show signs of hunger, common mistake for new growers to feed seedlings and clones too much too early. i wait till they show deficiencies.

Dankfactory said:

110 W CFL's? "Too much light?"

I'm sorry. No, that's nonsense.
In case I missed it, what is the current medium? Just standard peat pucks?
What was the pH of your feed water up until this point? RO? Tap? If it's Tap water, is it hard water tap?
They look to be possibly venturing into lockout territory. Either an off pH or a feed mixture that is too Hot will do that to seedlings.

I would also highly recommend ditching the synthetic nutes in dirt. Do yourself a favor and stiick with organics in dirt!

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Hi

The growing medium is standard peat pellets -- some others are in rockwool. The pH of the feed has been ~6.0 since germination. I'm using carbon filtered water which supposedly removes chlorine. The feed mixture has been sitting in with an air pump in it in the grow room and has been at room temp of around 24-25 C. I have not seen any similar changes in any of the other seedlings despite similar feeding patterns. Ordinarily it wouldn't matter for one seedling to die however I have only germinated 2 cannatonics and am relying on them for some oil.

I have been feeding them synthetically up to this point as I feel it is the most practical method for now. The seedlings are almost 3 weeks old and I had significantly slowed growth roughly 5 days ago with simultaneous changes in leaf colour -- mainly to a more yellow colour (starting at the tips) which I understand to be a nitrogen deficiency.

I have plans to transplant all of the seedlings into a rich organic soil medium in the next 5 days and am just feeding them with synthetic nutes at the moment.

Thanks for all your input, its much appreciated

PKD said:

Hi

The growing medium is standard peat pellets -- some others are in rockwool. The pH of the feed has been ~6.0 since germination. I'm using carbon filtered water which supposedly removes chlorine. The feed mixture has been sitting in with an air pump in it in the grow room and has been at room temp of around 24-25 C. I have not seen any similar changes in any of the other seedlings despite similar feeding patterns. Ordinarily it wouldn't matter for one seedling to die however I have only germinated 2 cannatonics and am relying on them for some oil.

I have been feeding them synthetically up to this point as I feel it is the most practical method for now. The seedlings are almost 3 weeks old and I had significantly slowed growth roughly 5 days ago with simultaneous changes in leaf colour -- mainly to a more yellow colour (starting at the tips) which I understand to be a nitrogen deficiency.

I have plans to transplant all of the seedlings into a rich organic soil medium in the next 5 days and am just feeding them with synthetic nutes at the moment.

Thanks for all your input, its much appreciated

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Bro, I'm going to be straight up with you here. I'll apologize in advance if you take offense, however I'm not trying to be volatile. You simply have no idea what the f*** you're doing. Period.
I've taken the liberty of highlighting some of the errors in your way of thinking and I will explain.(expand your quote to see the points in question) I'm sure others will chime in. So, I'm not claiming to be the end all be all Canna-guru, but I've been at it for about 15 years now and have killed more than a few clones and seedlings way early on in my "grow career," that I have absolutely become somewhat of a seedling Jedi. I'm fairly content with my collection of CA elite cuts, but I pop seeds regularly just to mix up the variety. If the seed is viable, I will get it to pop, and maintain the utmost health throughout its entire life.
Topic #1: using carbon filtered water because of chlorine.
I keep saltwater reeftanks. Long story short, one cannot keep a successful reeftank without knowing your water parameters inside and out. I test my municipal tap weekly. It is loaded with chloramines( chlorine +ammonia) My seedlings absolutely Love it straight out of the tap. Hard water tap is rich in Ca and Mag.
Point 2: synthetic nutes. No. It isn't the most practical.
They're seedlings. Even a minuscule dose of a quality organic nute would have served them well. You seem to have locked them out because of this error. Not very practical..
Point 3: the transplant plans. Had you just used a rapid rooter, or better yet, threw them straight into a mild quality dirt like Happy Frog with nothing but plain pH'd water, they'd prob be 4X the size right now.
You really need to go back to square 1 and reevaluate your entire approach.

Dankfactory said:

Bro, I'm going to be straight up with you here. I'll apologize in advance if you take offense, however I'm not trying to be volatile. You simply have no idea what the f*** you're doing. Period.
I've taken the liberty of highlighting some of the errors in your way of thinking and I will explain.(expand your quote to see the points in question) I'm sure others will chime in. So, I'm not claiming to be the end all be all Canna-guru, but I've been at it for about 15 years now and have killed more than a few clones and seedlings way early on in my "grow career," that I have absolutely become somewhat of a seedling Jedi. I'm fairly content with my collection of CA elite cuts, but I pop seeds regularly just to mix up the variety. If the seed is viable, I will get it to pop, and maintain the utmost health throughout its entire life.
Topic #1: using carbon filtered water because of chlorine.
I keep saltwater reeftanks. Long story short, one cannot keep a successful reeftank without knowing your water parameters inside and out. I test my municipal tap weekly. It is loaded with chloramines( chlorine +ammonia) My seedlings absolutely Love it straight out of the tap. Hard water tap is rich in Ca and Mag.
Point 2: synthetic nutes. No. It isn't the most practical.
They're seedlings. Even a minuscule dose of a quality organic nute would have served them well. You seem to have locked them out because of this error. Not very practical..
Point 3: the transplant plans. Had you just used a rapid rooter, or better yet, threw them straight into a mild quality dirt like Happy Frog with nothing but plain pH'd water, they'd prob be 4X the size right now.
You really need to go back to square 1 and reevaluate your entire approach.

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I find your comment rather uneducational rather condescending, and frankly conflicting with a lot of the other advice I have found in books and from hydroponics shops.
First of all, your reasoning concerning a nutrient lockout may be somewhat truthful however, that can't explain why all of the other seedlings are doing absolutely fine with the same exact treatment. I specifically wanted to start with rockwool/peat in order to keep the space small enough for me to grow seedlings for their first 3 weeks indoors. There are a number of reasons why I did this: 1) I aimed to keep the conditions as controlled as possible in terms of temperature and humidity which I have done successfully; had I put them in soil outside I would have had to deal with harsh wind and fluctuating weather conditions (which can reach above 35C at this time of year). 2) It was suggested to me that I try an inert growing medium for the first 3 weeks of seedling life such as rockwool or peat and feed the seedlings as they begin to look deficient. Until now this has appeared to work very well (and indeed I know for a fact that many many others including organic growers who plan to transplant into soil will start with seedlings in rockwool).

In addition to all of this, you commented on the fact that they are small in size when I didn't even produce any pictures of any of the other seedlings which have been growing much more strongly for the last week or so.

In terms of water quality; the filter I use is designed to remove halides (ie Cl and F) and the research I have done leads me to believe that the water in my area is not HARD water, thus until this point there has been no reason for me to believe that the water I have been using is anything but satisfactory.

The reason I began to use notes, as previously mentioned was because the seedlings (including this one were begin to show signs of yellowing and slowed growth). Sure enough, administration of "synthetic fertilizer" ie pH perfect sensi grow a & b improved growth rates markedly, noticeable 24 hours after first feeding. I am baffled as to why you seem to think feeding seedlings synthetic nutrients in rockwool/peat, which a significant number of hydroponic growers use would suddenly cause a nutrient lockout. Taking the advice from a local hydroponics store (and cervantes' growing guide), it seems that starting seedlings in rockwool--feeding with liquid nutrients for ~1-2 weeks and then transplanting into organic soil is a very commonly employed method.

Thank you for your advice about a rapid rooter, I will definitely look into using one of them next time. However, there is no need for me to suddenly abandon all grow plans when I have 15 other very healthy looking seedlings that thus far have been nothing but predictable.

Thank you for your input; I would much appreciate a more mature and educational response next time.

Dankfactory said:

Point 2: synthetic nutes. No. It isn't the most practical.
They're seedlings. Even a minuscule dose of a quality organic nute would have served them well. You seem to have locked them out because of this error. Not very practical..

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Pet peeve: There's really no such thing as an organic nutrient... Are you referring to unrefined minerals? Or the result of microbial action on organic material? Liquid nutrients in bottles are refined, and thus, non-organic.

Note: I'm not saying one is better than the other.

ficklejester said:

Pet peeve: There's really no such thing as an organic nutrient... Are you referring to unrefined minerals? Or the result of microbial action on organic material? Liquid nutrients in bottles are refined, and thus, non-organic.

Note: I'm not saying one is better than the other.

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That is precisely my understanding of organic growing. How can you feed plants that are in an inert media with organic nutrients if the very thing that defines "organic" is a symbiosis between plant roots and bacteria/fungi which colonize the roots and control nutrient release from the surrounding growth media.?... which can't really be provided in inert rockwool/peat brickets.

PKD said:

That is precisely my understanding of organic growing. How can you feed plants that are in an inert media with organic nutrients if the very thing that defines "organic" is a symbiosis between plant roots and bacteria/fungi which colonize the roots and control nutrient release from the surrounding growth media.?... which can't really be provided in inert rockwool/peat brickets.

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Exactly. General Hydroponics has an article out there on the web that describes things very well.

DannyBlaze2 said:

How many ppms is the 1/4 dose with seedlings it don't take much I use cups plain water twice the first week in sunshine mix 4 then 250- 300 ppms ...

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I've been using 0.5ml/L strength for the smaller plants and the "more hungry" ones I've begun to give 1ml/L. The ppm of the 1ml/L solution is quoted at ~600ppm so I imagine 0.5ml/L would be somewhere in between 300-400 ppm which should be okay I am guessing?

PKD said:

I've been using 0.5ml/L strength for the smaller plants and the "more hungry" ones I've begun to give 1ml/L. The ppm of the 1ml/L solution is quoted at ~600ppm so I imagine 0.5ml/L would be somewhere in between 300-400 ppm which should be okay I am guessing?

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On that note, I just found something by AN that says 1ml/L should be 300ppm & 0.5ml/L should be 150ppm --- My plants are in the dark atm and don't want to go and measure the EC but I will do it in the morning on my own solutions

PKD, sorry dude, wasn't trying to throw negative vibes. Perhaps I scribed that after a stiff margarita and came off a little hostile. But the fact remains: if you're plan is to go into dirt, you're simply making it way harder on yourself. Regardless if your other seedlings are performing okay. By the way, I never suggested that the plant knows the difference between organic and synthetic nutrients. Salts are salts are salts. However, the breakdown and availability of the elements is a little more gradual with what is known as organics. And I'm of the opinion that there are little nuances of which are hard to explain on paper, that simply produce a superior product when using "Organics," however that term may relate to bioavailability. It's why I personally run a gnarly smelling organic line in DWC with a chiller instead of the Dutch Master and other synthetics I used to run. The end product is just better. I'm not a plant biologist so I can't explain why. And I don't really care why to be honest. I don't have time to be a nerdtrient guru.
But anyway, here's what works for me. Fwiw.
Ditch the peat plugs entirely. They are utterly pointless.Rapid Rooters are a decent option but I've personally seen seedlings get trapped in the "chute" and get cramped off. You usually don't notice until it's too late.
Happy Frog is an epic choice for seedlings all the way through the first few weeks of moderately sized vegging plants, with nothing but plain water. I like to pop my beans on a moist paper towel while leaving air pockets close to said beans.
Find a soft spot where you're going to sew you're seed, ensuring that there isn't a twig or a piece of perlite to impede the root tip. Sew the seed just under the surface and barely cover the cap with a small pinch of coir. Use solo cups for the dirt and then buy some smaller clear plastic cups that you can mist for the domes. The smaller sized clear cups form a perfect humidity seal on the dirt. I prefer this method over larger seedling domes. Once they pop the surface about a half inch, remove the dome. The Frog will NEVER burn a single one of your seedlings, and the growth is explosive, provided you dont overwater. Anyway dude, I pop multiple packs of seeds all the time, and I don't remember the last time I killed or burnt a seedling. HTH.

Same batch in the frog a bit later

Hey mate - sorry for the late reply I've been away. Thanks very much for your reply back. The advice you gave just then has been well received and I completely agree with and understand what you're saying. It makes no sense for me to grow in peat etc when I'm just transferring to soil anyway. I'll definitely start off with that method next time. By the way your plants are looking fantastic mate -- keep up the good work.

Thanks again