• Here is a link to the full explanation: https://rollitup.org/t/welcome-back-did-you-try-turning-it-off-and-on-again.1104810/

seedling stunted growth

russ0r

russ0r

The russ0r
Thurston said:
I agree conditions can make or break a grow. In the past I have over complicated things and it didn't work out.
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Best way to learn is to fail and trying new ways to grow is always fun but that's why I said conditions are everything. Soil is safe for new growers for a reason - most other things you need to dial in and in coco I'd personally be shooting for high temps and lots of air flow (i used to grow hps as well and that obviously solves heat). But when I go hydro I prefer medium less, dwc type grows (no medium much less hassle and same water savings). It's all fun though. I think I even grew out a plant in a 1 litre mouthwash bottle for a contest on this very forum.

I know my opinions can seem brash but I mean everything with respect and my opinions are just that. I wouldn't even rule out that seedling being a runt. Just giving my 2 cents.
 
T

Thurston

Well-Known Member
Some of my best smoke has been from runts I didn't think would live. Taught me to never give up.

I like facts, feelings are less important.
 
Fish scale

Fish scale

Well-Known Member
MickFoster said:
I've been growing in coco for decades and I have never had root rot or had a seedling die due to over watering. Granted, if you start in large pots and saturated it, you could kill a seedling. But if you start in small pots like solo cups and feed to run off starting around day 3 or 4 from sprout, overwatering or root rot is not a problem. These seedlings are 1 week old in 100% coco and fed to run off every day........second pic is at three weeks fed every day.
View attachment 5453688View attachment 5453689
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They are confusing me Mick. I'm not sure if I should let it dry out or feed it until run off
 
Fish scale

Fish scale

Well-Known Member
russ0r said:
Consider the circumstances here - 75% rh , lower temps and bad air flow. Didn't say you'd have rot I said the opposite and explained why they won't rot but still can die in many situations.

I could finish a grow in just about anything. Conditions are everything
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But what has the humidity got to do with it? Seedlings like high humidity and as they grow I will start to reduce the humidity. I've got a brand new 6 inch mountain air carbon filter and a 6 inch rhino fan so I think my airflow is doing ok. Small plants don't like fans pointed at them. They don't need much air flow to start with
 
Wastei

Wastei

Well-Known Member
russ0r said:
Coconut may be a type of hydroponic medium, but most hydro has some type of oxygen being pumped into the water one way or another. Waterlogged coco will still kill your plants the same as overwatering in soil. Watering daily is just replacing the oxygenated water... once. In hydro you'd replace that multiple times per day. Coco has its uses but it's certainly not the greatest hydroponic medium. I have watched many mj farmers and veg farmers alike annihilate their plants using coco and keeping it soaked. Coco does not magically hold 30% oxygen while waterlogged, and especially not if the plant uses it. Coco does dry out faster alowing air to enter.. but that isn't going to occur quickly enough in 75% humidity with what I assume is next to no air flow.

You get away with not having root rot in it often times because coco is inert and the bacteria simply isn't there. Combined with chemical nutes... not a great place for the bacteria that causes rot. But no oxygen to roots still hampers growth the same as no nutirents.. it ain't gonna do anything. And will eventually kill it. The die much more efficiently when they are bigger and I have watched this occur before my eyes many times over
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Coco coir holds 21% oxygen at FULL saturation, period. This is a known fact. It's not in any way magic but comes from coco coirs natural fibrous structure.

You stop overwatering by choosing the correct pot size for the stage of growth growing in Coco Coir. People treat it as soil and start experience problems with choosing the wrong pot sizes and letting pots go dry between waterings.

I've watched countless new growers fail miserable in Coco coir treating it like soil grown plants. It's practically impossible to overwater established plants in Coco coir.

It is however still possible to overwater small seedlings in Coco Coir, that's why you don't start feeding to runoff right away and only start after 3-4 days from sprout.
 
Aristoned

Aristoned

New Member
Fish scale said:
They are confusing me Mick. I'm not sure if I should let it dry out or feed it until run off
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When I say “dry” I mean, by the lifting of my potter with peat moss. When I notice the weight of the plant and potter has reduced by evaporation I will add more. “Dry” would be defined as partially wet or mostly dry but not completely dry. Completely dry would spell disaster in peat moss or coco coir.
 
Fish scale

Fish scale

Well-Known Member
Aristoned said:
When I say “dry” I mean, by the lifting of my potter with peat moss. When I notice the weight of the plant and potter has reduced by evaporation I will add more. “Dry” would be defined as partially wet or mostly dry but not completely dry. Completely dry would spell disaster in peat moss or coco coir.
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But isn't peat moss totally different to coco. peat moss should be left to dry out whereas coco should be kept fully saturated at all times? I've done a lot of grows in the past and I've always kept my coco soaking wet without any issues. I'm not a new member here. I've been here for a good few years
 
Aristoned

Aristoned

New Member
Wastei said:
Coco coir holds 21% oxygen at FULL saturation, period. This is a known fact. It's not in any way magic but comes from coco coirs natural fibrous structure.

You stop overwatering by choosing the correct pot size for the stage of growth growing in Coco Coir. People treat it as soil and start experience problems with choosing the wrong pot sizes and letting pots go dry between waterings.

I've watched countless new growers fail miserable in Coco coir treating it like soil grown plants. It's practically impossible to overwater established plants in Coco coir.

It is however still possible to overwater small seedlings in Coco Coir, that's why you don't start feeding to runoff right away and only start after 3-4 days from sprout.
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My coco looks water-logged from the cardboard. I had to poke holes in the bottom so it didn’t look like a swamp.

What do you think?

I took the seeds out and they are on top of the heat mat now with paper towels.
 

Attachments

Wastei

Wastei

Well-Known Member
Aristoned said:
My coco looks water-logged from the cardboard. I had to poke holes in the bottom so it didn’t look like a swamp.

What do you think?

I took the seeds out and they are on top of the heat mat now with paper towels.
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Try to elevate the pots to create better air circulation around and under the pots to better let water flow and air to enter in. You don't need dome or anything to start seeds, they often create more problems than they solve with starting seeds.

They do best with 65-75% humidity but I've sprouted well and grown seedling with only 34-45% humidity as well. It's good to have some light breeze going along the soil surface to stop any fungal growth and wilt.
 
Aristoned

Aristoned

New Member
Wastei said:
Try to elevate the pots to create better air circulation around and under the pots to better let water flow and air to enter in. You don't need dome or anything to start seeds, they often create more problems than they solve with starting seeds.

They do best with 65-75% humidity but I've sprouted well and grown seedling with only 34-45% humidity as well. It's good to have some light breeze going along the soil surface to stop any fungal growth and wilt.
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Ya know, I cannot rule out that these two seeds are not viable.

I think the cardboard is a bad idea since it does not drain, I’ll use the cups everyone else is using.

I’ll keep the dome off and possibly grab two more seeds and start over or switch to Durban and Bluedream.


:leaf: Cheers!
 
Wastei

Wastei

Well-Known Member
Fish scale said:
But isn't peat moss totally different to coco. peat moss should be left to dry out whereas coco should be kept fully saturated at all times? I've done a lot of grows in the past and I've always kept my coco soaking wet without any issues. I'm not a new member here. I've been here for a good few years
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You can let the pots go lighter but the top surface should always stay wet or moist without any coir starting to dry out.

People often cover the pots to not let them dry out as fast and to stop any algae growth forming on top of the containers.

Peat and Coco are most different in the sense of what's called "cation exchange action". It becomes way hotter(higher EC)as it dries out since it holds on to and releases minerals at a faster rate compared to peat that can go drier without causing any burns.

In many practical applications they are interchangeable but they for sure still have different properties.

Cheers!
 
russ0r

russ0r

The russ0r
Wastei said:
Coco coir holds 21% oxygen at FULL saturation, period. This is a known fact. It's not in any way magic but comes from coco coirs natural fibrous structure.

You stop overwatering by choosing the correct pot size for the stage of growth growing in Coco Coir. People treat it as soil and start experience problems with choosing the wrong pot sizes and letting pots go dry between waterings.

I've watched countless new growers fail miserable in Coco coir treating it like soil grown plants. It's practically impossible to overwater established plants in Coco coir.

It is however still possible to overwater small seedlings in Coco Coir, that's why you don't start feeding to runoff right away and only start after 3-4 days from sprout.
Click to expand...
Now it's 21%
When the roots breathe that 21% and air can't enter, what is it then? :) even soil should not dry out completely to the bone.. that should be a given. Established plants with roots on the outside edge of the medium get oxygen: of course it's hard. But it's not impossible.

There's no need to rewrite history and nitpick on single statements guys. Conditions are everything. Blanket statements aren't facts. Consider all of the variables. Sorry to confuse the OP. Small seedlings do like air, and it will strengthen your stems from the get go. If your roots aren't getting air .. that was the suggestion for increased airflow.

Opinios are opinions and facts are facts and there is rich history on this forum to back that up. At the end of that day conditions are king and it's easy to miss one thing in all of these debates.
 
Aristoned

Aristoned

New Member
Fish scale said:
But isn't peat moss totally different to coco. peat moss should be left to dry out whereas coco should be kept fully saturated at all times? I've done a lot of grows in the past and I've always kept my coco soaking wet without any issues. I'm not a new member here. I've been here for a good few years
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I have never had the need for coco, I just purchased it because it was on sale and advertised as seed starter. I’m having problems similar to you and I’d like to find a solution.

My peat moss never gets 100% dry, I lift the potter to feel for the difference in mass from the potter to the plant with a slight swing to feel momentum. From my memory of what it felt the last time I was in the tent and the time between visits determines my watering schedule.

I noticed my coco looked like a swamp and I suspect it was the cardboard. I’m just here to share my experience to see what I did incorrectly.

:leaf: Cheers!
 
MickFoster

MickFoster

Well-Known Member
russ0r said:
Been here longer than you bud

Never take advice from a site trying to sell you products. ;)
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By a few months.......not sure why you felt you needed to point that out. I don't want to get into a pissing match with you my friend. My comment about a new member wasn't referring to you and it wasn't meant for you.......yet you felt it necessary to quote it. Coco for cannabis has helped many new coco growers and is a good source for coco basics. I'd rather listen to their advice than from mediocre growers on this forum who like to hear themselves talk with no experience on specific grow mediums.
Have a nice day. ;)
 
russ0r

russ0r

The russ0r
MickFoster said:
By a few months.......not sure why you felt you needed to point that out. I don't want to get into a pissing match with you my friend. My comment about a new member wasn't referring to you and it wasn't meant for you.......yet you felt it necessary to quote it. Coco for cannabis has helped many new coco growers and is a good source for coco basics. I'd rather listen to their advice than from mediocre growers on this forum who like to hear themselves talk with no experience on specific grow mediums.
Have a nice day. ;)
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I was the only.one telling him to let it dry , but okay. I sent you a pm before your rude message.. have a good one man enjoy yourself :)
 
Wastei

Wastei

Well-Known Member
russ0r said:
Now it's 21%
When the roots breathe that 21% and air can't enter, what is it then? :) even soil should not dry out completely to the bone.. that should be a given. Established plants with roots on the outside edge of the medium get oxygen: of course it's hard. But it's not impossible.

There's no need to rewrite history and nitpick on single statements guys. Conditions are everything. Blanket statements aren't facts. Consider all of the variables. Sorry to confuse the OP. Small seedlings do like air, and it will strengthen your stems from the get go. If your roots aren't getting air .. that was the suggestion for increased airflow.

Opinios are opinions and facts are facts and there is rich history on this forum to back that up. At the end of that day conditions are king and it's easy to miss one thing in all of these debates.
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No one's is re-writing history or re-inventing the wheel. You seem to have a hard time being corrected and only seem to be here to argue?

You write like you have everything figured out in one sentence and in the other sentence write that you never even grown in Coco coir?

Why do you think in your own mind anyone would listen to your advices instead of people who's grow in coir with actual experience?

I'm lost in your reasoning but all the best of luck to you!

Peace!
 
russ0r

russ0r

The russ0r
Clearly I have upset the coco boys. I tried to bring it to PM but they need to have the last word, they can have it - next time when you feel the desire to be rude take it to pm. If you can't have a civil conversation that's your issue. No one's trying to argue. This forum was created to trade opinions. And there has always been a hostile niche of growers on here in one shape or another. /calm
 
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