Seedling - twisting leaves - not major but why?

I have 1 seedling out of my 4 where the largest leaves are twisting (almost 90° at this point). There is one other that has a couple "taco leaves" pointing up. I'm not really concerned about it at this point, just wondering why it's happening.

stats:
jiffy seed starter soil (no nutes)
avg temps: 78-82
RH: 50-60%
both are Barney's Farm LSD (feminized)
6 65k 26w CFLs/2 27k 26w CFLs - 24/0 - 2"-4" away
Distilled water when needed (~2-4 days)
broke ground 12 days ago
plenty of fresh air

I've looked around and found it could be anything from pH, Boron def., Mag def., heat, watering, etc..

This is my first indoor grow so it's the first time I've had the opportunity to pay such close attention to the life cycle is why I'm asking. Yes they are a little stretched (I'll fix when I transplant). They also seem a bit small to me (I tried to slow 3 down to let a 4th, late germinating seed to catch up - probably a mistake).

Is this just their way of telling me they are ready for some lite nutes? Could it be caused by the amount of light (too much)?

Thanks in advance for any help.
(same plant in all 3 pics)

so whats your ph at? are you sure your letting the soil dry before watering again?

darkdestruction420 said:

so whats your ph at? are you sure your letting the soil dry before watering again?

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To tell you the truth, I never checked the pH of the seedling starter mix - I did check the distilled water and it's right around 7. Best I can tell the soil is pretty dry before I water. It really seems like it's a common thing to overwater so I was trying to err on the side of underwatering. Soil feels dry down to at least my 2nd knuckle. My shitty pH meter has a moisture meter on it but if it works as well as the pH part does, it's about worthless. I was also kind of scared to go jabbing a bunch of shit in around the plant for fear of disturbing the roots. Maybe they're not old enough but I've never had an issue with droopy leaves or anything like that. Is this a common indication of overwatering? I looked through quite a few pages and searches and couldn't find any pics that look quite like mine. Genetics maybe?

I've had similar issues growing in soil (which is why I avoid it now), but I would guess it's just a PH issue. If you have a PH/TDS meter, I would check the runoff water that you get the next time you water. Also, you could probably lower your PH level a little down to 6.2-6.5 for the next watering to help slightly drop the PH in the soil. The girls are still a little too young to be showing signs of nutrient deficiencies, so I would just make sure your distilled water is at the proper PH, and test out the runoff. Hope that helps.

satire said:

I've had similar issues growing in soil (which is why I avoid it now), but I would guess it's just a PH issue. If you have a PH/TDS meter, I would check the runoff water that you get the next time you water. Also, you could probably lower your PH level a little down to 6.2-6.5 for the next watering to help slightly drop the PH in the soil. The girls are still a little too young to be showing signs of nutrient deficiencies, so I would just make sure your distilled water is at the proper PH, and test out the runoff. Hope that helps.

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Thanks for the reply. I just got some pool water test strips a couple days ago and properly tested my tap water - turns out it may be better water than I expected. According to the test strips my water is ~6.6-6.8 and ~100ppm so I'm going to start using that. I'm going to keep an eye on it for now and maybe start with 1/4 strength nutes next watering (probably 2 days yet). If it doesn't get any worse I'll just roll with it until transplant. Considering my less than perfect start with these I don't think they look too bad other than a bit on the small side and stretched. I'll stick my meter in the soil just for shits and giggles though.

**Edit: So this soil pH meter might honestly be the biggest piece of shit I have ever bought. Scales between 8 and 5, needle rests between 6 and 7. Stuck it in the soil and the needle never moved (and it pulled out a big chunk of soil when I pulled it out). Moisture read right between dry and moist even though the surface was still damp to the touch. Anyways, I went ahead and watered with distilled water and tested the runoff with the strips. The pH measure right around 6.4, maybe a little lower. I'm still not going to make any wild changes yet unless something really starts to look ugly. I'm also shopping for a new meter.

suckrpnch said:

I have 1 seedling out of my 4 where the largest leaves are twisting (almost 90° at this point). There is one other that has a couple "taco leaves" pointing up. I'm not really concerned about it at this point, just wondering why it's happening.

stats:
jiffy seed starter soil (no nutes)
avg temps: 78-82
RH: 50-60%
both are Barney's Farm LSD (feminized)
6 65k 26w CFLs/2 27k 26w CFLs - 24/0 - 2"-4" away
Distilled water when needed (~2-4 days)
broke ground 12 days ago
plenty of fresh air

I've looked around and found it could be anything from pH, Boron def., Mag def., heat, watering, etc..

This is my first indoor grow so it's the first time I've had the opportunity to pay such close attention to the life cycle is why I'm asking. Yes they are a little stretched (I'll fix when I transplant). They also seem a bit small to me (I tried to slow 3 down to let a 4th, late germinating seed to catch up - probably a mistake).

Is this just their way of telling me they are ready for some lite nutes? Could it be caused by the amount of light (too much)?

Thanks in advance for any help.
(same plant in all 3 pics)

Click to expand...

why your light on 24/0?.. i dont see the up side to this? all plants need a dark period it's basic botany

ganjalova said:

why your light on 24/0?.. i dont see the up side to this? all plants need a dark period it's basic botany

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I dunno.. I like to leave my lights on 24/7 while I'm waiting for sprouts then switch to 18/6. I had a "late bloomer" and another seed that's not sprouted yet (calling it a dud at this point though). Just haven't gotten around to switching yet. I've also been making some adjustments to the room - I'm around random hours throughout the day and night (gotta love insomnia) and didn't want to disturb sleepy time if I had a whim to do something. I need to light leak proof my intake vent and I'll be ready to switch my light times.

I've seen tons of journals and posts with people doing 24/7 the entire veg with no issues so I wasn't stressing about it. 18/6 is my preference though.

Well... now this has become an issue I think. I was going to leave the plants in the cups till they were a little larger to make transplanting a little easier, but I think they needed a move sooner. The starter mix just didn't seem "right". All the cups would dry at different rates, would develop deep cracks when it got even slightly dry, clump after watering, etc... I went ahead and transplanted which was not fun either. The plants just seemed very fragile and the mix just seemed to disintegrate when I removed them from the cup so I ended up having to fondle the roots a bit more than I would have liked. I was happy to see however that the roots had filled in a large amount of the cup. Still seemed like a slightly higher concentration at the bottom, but not near enough to be showing any ill-effects from being root bound. I wanted to start nutes today but I guess due to the transplant/water I'll be holding off for a while yet.

Here's a couple pics to show how bad the damage had gotten.

Whats the ph run off read. Looks like you soils ph is off.

Lockdown420 said:

Whats the ph run off read. Looks like you soils ph is off.

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I tested runoff 3 days before this repotting and it was in the ballpark of 6.4 (it may have been a bit lower - my pool test kit only goes down to 6.4 and the color on the strip was a bit lighter than it should have been for 6.4). I watered with tested distilled water (pH 7.0). I really don't know exactly what was going on with them. If I watered with 7.0 and it came out at 6.4, the medium shouldn't be crazy low. Obviously something was outa whack though. I was thinking part of it could be nute def. going by their age too. What I repotted them into has some organic "nutritional value" so I'm not adding any chemical nutes at this time until they start to improve.

Runoff from repotted plants measured at 6.8 / 200ppm. They just came out of dark time and I'm having this compulsive desire to stick my head in there every 15 mins :/

First get a "good" digital ph meter $40-$70, Then get them girls in some good soil (i'm useing FFOF, fromseedling). Something is def. wrong here, below are pic;s of my girls at 14 days in FFOF under 400w Mh 24/7, i ph my water and or water nute mix at 6.5-6.7, in that range. and i water about 1/2 the volume of the container the girls are in.

This is what they should look like at 14 days, I think.

Repoting in some promix with some worm castings and some dolmite lime with less peatmoss should help keep the ph stable with alot more organic nutes. As for distilled water make sure you ph it down to around 6.0 to 6.5, 7 is to high. Peat moss has a ph of 4.5 so it can throw off you soils ph if using to much. I run my water thru a brita carbon filter and the ph goes in at 7.1 and comes out at 6.

Lockdown420 said:

Repoting in some promix with some worm castings and some dolmite lime with less peatmoss should help keep the ph stable with alot more organic nutes. As for distilled water make sure you ph it down to around 6.0 to 6.5, 7 is to high. Peat moss has a ph of 4.5 so it can throw off you soils ph if using to much. I run my water thru a brita carbon filter and the ph goes in at 7.1 and comes out at 6.

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Well, they have been repotted in a soul mix I made that has some organic nutrient value (and plenty of lime). I was using water at 7 because I was expecting the starter mix to be pretty low. Even at using 7.0 water, my runoff was at 6.4 or below which I didn't think would be so low to cause so many problems. It almost seems like there may have been something else going on. No more will I bargain shop for equipment. After nearly 24 hours the leaves seem to have uncurled a bit but that could be just me seeing what I want to/wishful thinking. I'll post a pic in a few days with whatever changes there may be.