Seedlings "frozen in time"

Turn up the lights.

Hey guys, I wanted to stop and offer an update. Out of the 5 I planted, 4 have broke soil. I have some pictures and will provide more details in a later post.

coreywebster said:

Around 62% - 72%

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This is actually going to be more difficult to do than I realized. One thing that jimhendrix1 mentioned earlier on was the importance of air exchange. I changed the pre-filter in my cabon filter and my air exchange improved tremendously. My temps dropped across the board though, as did the humidity unfortunately. I even have a humidifier in the tent basically running 24/7. Before messing with the filter, I could easily get humidity 60-70%, but now that I have good air flow, I barely can maintain 50%, if that. At least I'm attributing it to the better air flow. I think I'm more focused with controlling the temps versus humidity at this point anyways, as I know for sure that was a potential issue.

BongerChonger said:

You've obviously tried different seeds, hasn't been same seeds each time?

I've had a similar experience to yours, using seeds I'd not stored properly, I think.
They'd sprout, but would never pass the cotyledon stage, they'd just kind of sit there, healthy looking but just not growing.
Though they wouldn't yellow and die, they just wouldn't grow.

If it's not the same seeds, then it's gotta be something you're doing.
Raising those temps a bit is a great place to start.

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When I initially had the issue, I used photos from Seedsman. I purchased the autos I have now a month ago from Mephisto. Completely different from that aspect. I feel like it's something I'm doing wrong or particular to my environment. I'm hoping with the guidance I'm receiving here, I will be able to isolate exactly what it is. The symptoms you were describing sound exactly what I'm observing. They just get "frozen". I'm using Fox Farm Light Warrior soil. I'm not sure the exact composition, but it appears to drain very well... maybe not as well as I thought lol, but definitely drains better than Fox Farm Ocean Forest (which is what I'll be transplanting into, assuming I ever make it that far...)

SpectacularG said:

You seem a very intelligent person so I'll try and give you a different kind of advice.

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Thank you for the advice and perspective. Not sure about trauma, but I have struggled with anxiety and depression for years now. It seems to be getting worse the older I get but I'm in therapy and am readily medicated (both prescribed and self-prescribed). I don't have that many hobbies, so that's why making it to harvest is so important to me. I don't handle frustration well either, even though I know it's part of the process. I feel like I have a mostly sound foundation for success, I'm just missing something. Grats on the high germ rate. I've seen others mention rootplugs. Which ones do you use?

lildogbyte said:

If there’s one thing I learned from my research, it’s that weed is a fairly hardy plant. It grows in all sorts of environments, from the himalayas to afghanistan.

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Yeah, I guess that's why its called weed, it can grow just about anywhere. That's why its especially frustrating to lose them so early. Something is seriously off for them to struggle so much at such a young age. I've got a new run that just started, so I'm going to apply what others have suggested regarding temps and watering. Regarding the lines... yeah, I have a aerator that feeds a 5 gallon bucket, which is essentially my reservoir. The slime was in the line submerged in the water. I guess I'm really unobservant because I never noticed it before. Fail. Everything was cleaned with warm bleach water and the lines were all replaced. It's possible there's still something funky floating around I missed I suppose. Grats on your current run!

1212ham said:

Most growers run lower 80's air temp with LED. Things slow down in cooler temps.

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I'm trying to maintain temp around 78-80. The challenge is to fight the urge to water them more lol... over-watering may not ultimately be the issue, but I see where it could be.

tok3in said:

Hey guys, I wanted to stop and offer an update. Out of the 5 I planted, 4 have broke soil. I have some pictures and will provide more details in a later post.



This is actually going to be more difficult to do than I realized. One thing that jimhendrix1 mentioned earlier on was the importance of air exchange. I changed the pre-filter in my cabon filter and my air exchange improved tremendously. My temps dropped across the board though, as did the humidity unfortunately. I even have a humidifier in the tent basically running 24/7. Before messing with the filter, I could easily get humidity 60-70%, but now that I have good air flow, I barely can maintain 50%, if that. At least I'm attributing it to the better air flow. I think I'm more focused with controlling the temps versus humidity at this point anyways, as I know for sure that was a potential issue.



When I initially had the issue, I used photos from Seedsman. I purchased the autos I have now a month ago from Mephisto. Completely different from that aspect. I feel like it's something I'm doing wrong or particular to my environment. I'm hoping with the guidance I'm receiving here, I will be able to isolate exactly what it is. The symptoms you were describing sound exactly what I'm observing. They just get "frozen". I'm using Fox Farm Light Warrior soil. I'm not sure the exact composition, but it appears to drain very well... maybe not as well as I thought lol, but definitely drains better than Fox Farm Ocean Forest (which is what I'll be transplanting into, assuming I ever make it that far...)



Thank you for the advice and perspective. Not sure about trauma, but I have struggled with anxiety and depression for years now. It seems to be getting worse the older I get but I'm in therapy and am readily medicated (both prescribed and self-prescribed). I don't have that many hobbies, so that's why making it to harvest is so important to me. I don't handle frustration well either, even though I know it's part of the process. I feel like I have a mostly sound foundation for success, I'm just missing something. Grats on the high germ rate. I've seen others mention rootplugs. Which ones do you use?



Yeah, I guess that's why its called weed, it can grow just about anywhere. That's why its especially frustrating to lose them so early. Something is seriously off for them to struggle so much at such a young age. I've got a new run that just started, so I'm going to apply what others have suggested regarding temps and watering. Regarding the lines... yeah, I have a aerator that feeds a 5 gallon bucket, which is essentially my reservoir. The slime was in the line submerged in the water. I guess I'm really unobservant because I never noticed it before. Fail. Everything was cleaned with warm bleach water and the lines were all replaced. It's possible there's still something funky floating around I missed I suppose. Grats on your current run!



I'm trying to maintain temp around 78-80. The challenge is to fight the urge to water them more lol... over-watering may not ultimately be the issue, but I see where it could be.

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I wouldn't ramp up your lights just yet. Not for seedlings...

I use organiplugs they are from vps ventana plant science a extremely research based company backed by a great team

Update: A-D are all on Day 2 from breaking soil, while E only broke yesterday. My temp is hovering around 78, give or take, trying to get it to average 80. Humidity is roughly 40% if I'm lucky. Misting daily. I will update again in a few days.

I got a feeling that soil is too hot, curious to see if I m just yapping on this

It does sound like root rot from overwatering.
I would use a low nute strength seed compost if possible, also im not sure i would dare start seeds under a 600w led, even at 25%.

I personally prefer to use old floro strip lights and a reptile heat mat, at this stage they really like gentle nutes, warmth and light.

tok3in said:

Update: A-D are all on Day 2 from breaking soil, while E only broke yesterday. My temp is hovering around 78, give or take, trying to get it to average 80. Humidity is roughly 40% if I'm lucky. Misting daily. I will update again in a few days.

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Boy those seedlings look healthy asf except for C but is probably an off picture. If your humidity drops it's not a super big deal just not below 30%

Update: Well, this comes sooner than I was expecting, but I'm already seeing possible issues. They are yellowing and showing their "veins" if that makes sense. I know yellowing is a very common symptom, but what could rob a seedling of it's health so quickly after germination? I'm fighting the urge to water them because I'm not used to watering this lightly. I will post updated pictures soon (tomorrow probably) but looking back on the one's I posted yesterday, you can already see the veins on "B"& "D" particularly. It's more pronounced today. The others are "yellowish" in general.

lungbutter said:

It does sound like root rot from overwatering.
I would use a low nute strength seed compost if possible, also im not sure i would dare start seeds under a 600w led, even at 25%.

I personally prefer to use old floro strip lights and a reptile heat mat, at this stage they really like gentle nutes, warmth and light.

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When I first started dabbling with growing, I fitted a small cabinet with a few CFLs and would start my seedlings in there for the first couple of weeks. Used to work well. That's when I was watering to run off as well. Eventually, once I started having these issues, one of the things I tried was to put them under the led @ 25%. It's at around 40% now. I know they don't need much light, I was just desperate trying something different hoping I'd get a different result. I can't control temps in that cabinet unfortunately. I've performed an autopsy of past seedlings and the roots didn't look that bad. Of course, I don't have a trained eye either, and might not know what I've even looking at even though I've seen pictures of root rot.

caexx said:

Boy those seedlings look healthy asf except for C but is probably an off picture. If your humidity drops it's not a super big deal just not below 30%

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Does the veins not indicate an issue? I would think a healthy seedling leaf should be mostly green (except for maybe the cotyledons). Given my limited experience, I could be mistaken. They just don't "feel" healthy to me, if that makes any sense.

tok3in said:

Update: Well, this comes sooner than I was expecting, but I'm already seeing possible issues. They are yellowing and showing their "veins" if that makes sense. I know yellowing is a very common symptom, but what could rob a seedling of it's health so quickly after germination? I'm fighting the urge to water them because I'm not used to watering this lightly. I will post updated pictures soon (tomorrow probably) but looking back on the one's I posted yesterday, you can already see the veins on "B"& "D" particularly. It's more pronounced today. The others are "yellowish" in general.



When I first started dabbling with growing, I fitted a small cabinet with a few CFLs and would start my seedlings in there for the first couple of weeks. Used to work well. That's when I was watering to run off as well. Eventually, once I started having these issues, one of the things I tried was to put them under the led @ 25%. It's at around 40% now. I know they don't need much light, I was just desperate trying something different hoping I'd get a different result. I can't control temps in that cabinet unfortunately. I've performed an autopsy of past seedlings and the roots didn't look that bad. Of course, I don't have a trained eye either, and might not know what I've even looking at even though I've seen pictures of root rot.



Does the veins not indicate an issue? I would think a healthy seedling leaf should be mostly green (except for maybe the cotyledons). Given my limited experience, I could be mistaken. They just don't "feel" healthy to me, if that makes any sense.

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Lol you have your lights at 40 percent for seedlings? Seriously. You're bleaching your seedlings dude. This is a picture of my last batch of seedlings. At 3 days 25% led

tok3in said:

Update: Well, this comes sooner than I was expecting, but I'm already seeing possible issues. They are yellowing and showing their "veins" if that makes sense. I know yellowing is a very common symptom, but what could rob a seedling of it's health so quickly after germination? I'm fighting the urge to water them because I'm not used to watering this lightly. I will post updated pictures soon (tomorrow probably) but looking back on the one's I posted yesterday, you can already see the veins on "B"& "D" particularly. It's more pronounced today. The others are "yellowish" in general.



When I first started dabbling with growing, I fitted a small cabinet with a few CFLs and would start my seedlings in there for the first couple of weeks. Used to work well. That's when I was watering to run off as well. Eventually, once I started having these issues, one of the things I tried was to put them under the led @ 25%. It's at around 40% now. I know they don't need much light, I was just desperate trying something different hoping I'd get a different result. I can't control temps in that cabinet unfortunately. I've performed an autopsy of past seedlings and the roots didn't look that bad. Of course, I don't have a trained eye either, and might not know what I've even looking at even though I've seen pictures of root rot.



Does the veins not indicate an issue? I would think a healthy seedling leaf should be mostly green (except for maybe the cotyledons). Given my limited experience, I could be mistaken. They just don't "feel" healthy to me, if that makes any sense.

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With my strip lights i used a couple of 2foot 18w over the seedlings, sat on the heating mats, its all in a tiny tent within a cupboard with only a small outtake fan so it get fairly warm in there.

I tend to soak them in water overnight and then straight into light compost, the initial watering you should be careful with, don't fully saturate the pot, just a small amount of water here and there is enough, you need the roots to move all around the pot searching for moisture or they will stagnate, drown and rot if they are sat in water, once they are a bit more established you can saturate fully without issue. The little bit of heat and good drainage helps alot with this.

tok3in said:

Update: Well, this comes sooner than I was expecting, but I'm already seeing possible issues. They are yellowing and showing their "veins" if that makes sense. I know yellowing is a very common symptom, but what could rob a seedling of it's health so quickly after germination? I'm fighting the urge to water them because I'm not used to watering this lightly.

Does the veins not indicate an issue? I would think a healthy seedling leaf should be mostly green (except for maybe the cotyledons). Given my limited experience, I could be mistaken. They just don't "feel" healthy to me, if that makes any sense.

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Get rid of the humidity domes for starters, not needed.
Stop misting them with water, not needed.
You should be watering until runoff, seedling or otherwise. Then you should be giving the potting mix or soil adequate time to dry, before watering to runoff again. Runoff is important.
Few days to several to dry, depends how much water your soil or potting mix holds onto.

Really the best thing you can do is leave them alone, mean no offense.
Leave them alone with a little light and warmth.
Let the soil dry out a bit, before giving any water again.
Don't worry about the humidity if it's dry, they'll do just fine.

Don't worry about nutrients, deficiencies etc. Not until they're more developed and have a couple nodes.
Don't water again until that potting mix or soil has dried adequately. It looks too damp there.

Best thing to do imho is relax, step back a little.

caexx said:

Lol you have your lights at 40 percent for seedlings? Seriously. You're bleaching your seedlings dude. This is a picture of my last batch of seedlings. At 3 days 25% led

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Yeah, that wasn't very smart was it. One reason I did it was because at 25% they seemed to be stretching, plus I was taking advantage of the fact that more heat was generated. I have dialed it back. Nice looking kids you got there btw!

BongerChonger said:

Get rid of the humidity domes for starters, not needed.
Stop misting them with water, not needed.
You should be watering until runoff, seedling or otherwise. Then you should be giving the potting mix or soil adequate time to dry, before watering to runoff again. Runoff is important.
Few days to several to dry, depends how much water your soil or potting mix holds onto.

Really the best thing you can do is leave them alone, mean no offense.
Leave them alone with a little light and warmth.
Let the soil dry out a bit, before giving any water again.
Don't worry about the humidity if it's dry, they'll do just fine.

Don't worry about nutrients, deficiencies etc. Not until they're more developed and have a couple nodes.
Don't water again until that potting mix or soil has dried adequately. It looks too damp there.

Best thing to do imho is relax, step back a little.

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Agreed, I am a bit anxious, but the reason is because the seedling phase is where I'm failing and that's where I'm currently at lol... It's too early to tell if increasing the temps and dialing back the watering has made a difference this run. Growing used to relax me but lately its been very stressful, which I feel in contributing to my continued failure. I do agree with you though, I'll try to chill more.

Traditionally, I water the pots until run off and water again in 3-4 days. I'm using Fox Farm's Light Warrior and it seems to drain extremely well. After about 4 days, the pots are significantly lighter, at which point I would water to run off again. It worked fine for my first 3-4 runs but then I started having problems with seedlings dying. I realize I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer, so I have had to take a step back and take advice from others. A few have suggested that 71 was too cool and that watering a seedling to run off was incorrect. The pots feel like they need watering now but I'm resisting the urge because they're not drooping yet. Probably going to water some tomorrow for sure. I'm not sure whose right when it comes to run off, I'm just desperate to figure out what's wrong and am willing to try anything. I should know within a week if I still have a problem or not.

*********

They seem a bit on the yellow side to me, but as of right now (other than "C") they don't seem too bad for being 4 days old. I am open to anyone's observations to the contrary, however. Trying to get temps back to around 78, been running around 76 today due to turning down/adjusting the lights. Humidity averaging around 46%.

So f

tok3in said:

Yeah, that wasn't very smart was it. One reason I did it was because at 25% they seemed to be stretching, plus I was taking advantage of the fact that more heat was generated. I have dialed it back. Nice looking kids you got there btw!



Agreed, I am a bit anxious, but the reason is because the seedling phase is where I'm failing and that's where I'm currently at lol... It's too early to tell if increasing the temps and dialing back the watering has made a difference this run. Growing used to relax me but lately its been very stressful, which I feel in contributing to my continued failure. I do agree with you though, I'll try to chill more.

Traditionally, I water the pots until run off and water again in 3-4 days. I'm using Fox Farm's Light Warrior and it seems to drain extremely well. After about 4 days, the pots are significantly lighter, at which point I would water to run off again. It worked fine for my first 3-4 runs but then I started having problems with seedlings dying. I realize I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer, so I have had to take a step back and take advice from others. A few have suggested that 71 was too cool and that watering a seedling to run off was incorrect. The pots feel like they need watering now but I'm resisting the urge because they're not drooping yet. Probably going to water some tomorrow for sure. I'm not sure whose right when it comes to run off, I'm just desperate to figure out what's wrong and am willing to try anything. I should know within a week if I still have a problem or not.

*********

They seem a bit on the yellow side to me, but as of right now (other than "C") they don't seem too bad for being 4 days old. I am open to anyone's observations to the contrary, however. Trying to get temps back to around 78, been running around 76 today due to turning down/adjusting the lights. Humidity averaging around 46%.

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So far So good with the exception of C. You mightve given that one a bit too much water. Looks stunted. Remember to pour water closer to the edges. About 1 inch away from the plant to encourage aggressive root growth and lightly mist the leaves for foliage feed. I would start prepping your final pots right now just to get ahead before transplant. Some fresh never before used soil.

Check out my grow journal and see if you can apply some stuff I did in beginning to your grow. Using Fox Farm happy frog and kinda similar soils.

tok3in said:

Agreed, I am a bit anxious, but the reason is because the seedling phase is where I'm failing and that's where I'm currently at lol... It's too early to tell if increasing the temps and dialing back the watering has made a difference this run. Growing used to relax me but lately its been very stressful, which I feel in contributing to my continued failure. I do agree with you though, I'll try to chill more.

They seem a bit on the yellow side to me, but as of right now (other than "C") they don't seem too bad for being 4 days old. I am open to anyone's observations to the contrary, however.

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All good, I understand where you're at, it's easy to give them too much love, especially after failed attempts.
They look better and larger than your previous photos.
They're looking fine , just chill.

Update: A & E are looking decent, B & D were drooping (so I gave them a little drink) and C is still a lost cause. Temperature averaging 75 and humidity 51%. I'm slightly encouraged at their progress (for being right at 1 week old) as I feel like overall they are doing better than my prior runs. However, I do feel like there is not as much vigor as there should be, but at least it doesn't appear they're declining. I might have unrealistic expectations as well.

I'm considering transplanting them tomorrow into 3-gallon fabric pots (their final home).

tok3in said:

Update: A & E are looking decent, B & D were drooping (so I gave them a little drink) and C is still a lost cause. Temperature averaging 75 and humidity 51%. I'm slightly encouraged at their progress (for being right at 1 week old) as I feel like overall they are doing better than my prior runs. However, I do feel like there is not as much vigor as there should be, but at least it doesn't appear they're declining. I might have unrealistic expectations as well.

I'm considering transplanting them tomorrow into 3-gallon fabric pots (their final home).

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They're looking alright so far. I would transplant yeah and C isn't a lost cause she just looks stunted. I wouldn't give up on her just yet. Remember to water your final pot AND soak your seedlings all the way through so everything comes out in one solid mass.