Sexing at germination
- Thread starter Angus
- Start date
email468
Well-Known Member
holy heck - it's kindprincess - long time - no see.
i think i may have heard of this geotropism thing you speak of
SmokeThisSmokeThat
Well-Known Member
Did some research... thanks to kindprincess...
As the mythbusters would say... this myth is busted
Gravitropism [or geotropism] is a turning or growth movement by a plant or fungus in response to gravity. Charles Darwin was one of the first Europeans to document that roots show positive gravitropism and stems show negative gravitropism. That is, roots grow in the direction of gravitational pull (i.e., downward) and stems grow in the opposite direction (i.e., upwards). This behaviour can be easily demonstrated with a potted plant. When laid onto its side, the growing parts of the stem begin to display negative gravitropism, bending (biologists say, turning; see tropism) upwards. Herbaceous (non-woody) stems are capable of a small degree of actual bending, but most of the redirected movement occurs as a consequence of root or stem growth in a new direction.
Gravitropism in the root
If the root cap is removed, root growth ceases to respond to gravity. The root cap is vital for gravitropism since it contains cells with sensors called statoliths, which are amyloplasts packed with starch. Amyloplasts are a type of plastid similar to chloroplasts. Statoliths are dense organelles that settle to the lowest part of the root cap cells in response to a change in the gravity vector. This initiates differential cell expansion in the root elongation zone causing a reorientation of the root growth (see below). The location of the elongation zone is many cells above the root cap, so intercellular signal transduction must occur from the site of gravity perception, in the root cap, to the growth response in the elongation zone. As of 2002, the nature of this signal is an active area of research in plant biology.
Roots bend in response to gravity due to a regulated movement of the plant hormone auxin known as polar auxin transport. In roots, an increase in the concentration of auxin will inhibit cell expansion, therefore, the redistribution of auxin in the root can initiate differential growth in the elongation zone resulting in root curvature.
A "tropism" is a plant movement triggered by stimuli. The term "geotropic" refers to a plant whose roots grow down into the soil as a response to gravity. Plants commonly exist in a state of "anisotropic growth," where roots grow downward and shoots grow upward. Anisotropic growth will continue even as a plant is turned sideways or upside down. In other words, no matter what you do to a plant within Earth's atmosphere, it will still grow roots down, stem up. The reason for this comes from the nature of a plant, and it's general response to gravity
As the mythbusters would say... this myth is busted
Gravitropism [or geotropism] is a turning or growth movement by a plant or fungus in response to gravity. Charles Darwin was one of the first Europeans to document that roots show positive gravitropism and stems show negative gravitropism. That is, roots grow in the direction of gravitational pull (i.e., downward) and stems grow in the opposite direction (i.e., upwards). This behaviour can be easily demonstrated with a potted plant. When laid onto its side, the growing parts of the stem begin to display negative gravitropism, bending (biologists say, turning; see tropism) upwards. Herbaceous (non-woody) stems are capable of a small degree of actual bending, but most of the redirected movement occurs as a consequence of root or stem growth in a new direction.
Gravitropism in the root
If the root cap is removed, root growth ceases to respond to gravity. The root cap is vital for gravitropism since it contains cells with sensors called statoliths, which are amyloplasts packed with starch. Amyloplasts are a type of plastid similar to chloroplasts. Statoliths are dense organelles that settle to the lowest part of the root cap cells in response to a change in the gravity vector. This initiates differential cell expansion in the root elongation zone causing a reorientation of the root growth (see below). The location of the elongation zone is many cells above the root cap, so intercellular signal transduction must occur from the site of gravity perception, in the root cap, to the growth response in the elongation zone. As of 2002, the nature of this signal is an active area of research in plant biology.
Roots bend in response to gravity due to a regulated movement of the plant hormone auxin known as polar auxin transport. In roots, an increase in the concentration of auxin will inhibit cell expansion, therefore, the redistribution of auxin in the root can initiate differential growth in the elongation zone resulting in root curvature.
A "tropism" is a plant movement triggered by stimuli. The term "geotropic" refers to a plant whose roots grow down into the soil as a response to gravity. Plants commonly exist in a state of "anisotropic growth," where roots grow downward and shoots grow upward. Anisotropic growth will continue even as a plant is turned sideways or upside down. In other words, no matter what you do to a plant within Earth's atmosphere, it will still grow roots down, stem up. The reason for this comes from the nature of a plant, and it's general response to gravity
email468
Well-Known Member
ah yeah - that's what this post said...
https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/81481-sexing-germination-3.html#post962632
I would point to this paragraph...
I am not arguing against doing the experiment - but ultimately the tap root will curl around if you plant it upside down. That is what tap roots do - they curl and twist until the embryo is in the right position. The seedling will die if it runs out of food before the root reaches an outside source. A basic botany book describes this in great detail. I don't see how that fact does not negate what is being claimed.
Though i chose not to use the technical term as it may have been more confusing. I was hoping one of the "experimenters" would have stumbled across this - but it seems old wives (or old hippies) tales are preferred.
https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/81481-sexing-germination-3.html#post962632
I would point to this paragraph...
I am not arguing against doing the experiment - but ultimately the tap root will curl around if you plant it upside down. That is what tap roots do - they curl and twist until the embryo is in the right position. The seedling will die if it runs out of food before the root reaches an outside source. A basic botany book describes this in great detail. I don't see how that fact does not negate what is being claimed.
Though i chose not to use the technical term as it may have been more confusing. I was hoping one of the "experimenters" would have stumbled across this - but it seems old wives (or old hippies) tales are preferred.
Angus
Well-Known Member
Dude, I gotcha on the the geotropism thing if you plant a seed upside-down it will curl around. Plants grow up, roots grow down, I'm pretty sure everyone knows this. But, when germinating on a flat surface, with the seed laid on it's side, there should be no need for the tap root to ever curl over itself due to geotropism. The seed is unobstructed from popping and the tap root just going striaght down.
However, anyone who has ever germinated more than a few seeds knows this isn't the case. If you take twenty seeds and lay them all horizontally, with the 'pointy' end facing the same way they won't all bust and shoot a root down, some will twist and curl and snake their way in different directions. All this method purposes is that you can learn something about the sex of a plant by analyzing how it's root twists and curls when one shouldn't have any outside force acting on it than any of the others have.
I don't know why you would refer to the paragraph you wrote about planting the seed because obviously everyone else in this thread took it for granted that the seeds would be germinated, using the paper towel method, before being planted. I spelled it out to you and you still keep going on about how the plant will grow up if you plant it in the dirt.
If you think this method is a load of bullshit then you have no obligation to hang around this thread; if you choose to do so anyway, can I respectfully request that you keep your opinion of it's legitimacy to yourself? I think everyone knows where you stand on the matter.
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email468
Well-Known Member
no problem. I guess the other folks pissing on your party get a pass - but that is OK.
good luck with your experiment.
kirby
Well-Known Member
Thanks for posting that, very informative on some of the biology on roots. But, something that caught my eye --
In roots, an increase in the concentration of auxin will inhibit cell expansion, therefore, the redistribution of auxin in the root can initiate differential growth in the elongation zone resulting in root curvature.
Who's to say that the Y chromosome isn't linked to higher concentrations of auxin? It doesn't even mention that, or any form of it, so in my opinion.... This myth may still be plausible... but invalid... who knows.
In roots, an increase in the concentration of auxin will inhibit cell expansion, therefore, the redistribution of auxin in the root can initiate differential growth in the elongation zone resulting in root curvature.
Who's to say that the Y chromosome isn't linked to higher concentrations of auxin? It doesn't even mention that, or any form of it, so in my opinion.... This myth may still be plausible... but invalid... who knows.
email468
Well-Known Member
If you enjoyed that you may want to have a read through Marijuana Botany by Robert Clarke. Great book full of accurate info!
SmokeThisSmokeThat
Well-Known Member
LOL... guess i gotta pass...
It's not that serious man...
Like i said before... my first crop with the AG had a mix of curly roots and str8 ones.. and i got all males... is that flawed genes or a flawed theory...?
immacomputa
Active Member
I'm pretty sure curly roots don't count. The root itself actually has to curl OVER itself. Curly roots mean nothing.
Let's just let them have their experiment and see how this turns out instead of arguing over it. People are going to try it out anyways. Curiosity is human nature.
kindprincess
Well-Known Member
ShimizuAntiCorp
Active Member
this place has become outlandishly humorous in the last few months....
perhaps you kids should search the term, "geotropism"? then you might understand what you're are or are not arguing about.
lol, blind leading the blind. priceless!
Ahhhh ok
didn't know there was a term for that but now that i know cool
thank you.
SmokeThisSmokeThat
Well-Known Member
This isnt an argument, this is a debate...
And do i really have to say "I had roots that curled over thevselves", or can i just paraphrase and say, "curly roots"... same difference...
Listen, even if people conduct their own experiments, we wont know the results for weeks... so while this thread is alive the subject should be open for discussion...
sheesh.. this is just a forum... no need for anybody to get their panties in a twist..
kindprincess
Well-Known Member
then why make comments like this?sheesh.. this is just a forum... no need for anybody to get their panties in a twist..
forums are so much nicer when schools are in session
SmokeThisSmokeThat
Well-Known Member
then why make comments like this?
forums are so much nicer when schools are in session
hmmmm... sounds to me like someone gets off by being a smart ass
that'll do princess... that'll do...
kindprincess
Well-Known Member
actually sweetheart, i "get off" by helping others. i'm just tired of all the bullshit; quite frankly, i'm tired of being nice to people who don't deserve it, and i'm tired of those people as well. spend an hour looking at the new topics page, refreshing once a minute. you'll see what i'm talking about.
hmmmm... sounds to me like someone gets off by being a smart ass
that'll do princess... that'll do...
as for you, you talk about niceties and debate, and post script with a sexist and assinine remark. good job!
i've done my fair share babe, but you guys just don't listen.
love, kp
SmokeThisSmokeThat
Well-Known Member
Hold the phone "sweetheart"...
Flip a few pages back and look at my previous post...
You mentioned something about "geotropism"... i did some research, and posted the info in this thread... i even thanked you for being the first to introduce me to a new word... At what point did i ever offend you??? If anything im on your side!!
Ive read numorus articles and took a peek at my girl's botany book, and as i stated before, i think this theroy is flawed.. and until someone posts some groundbreaking evidence, im sticking with science (just like you) and saying this myth is busted (for now at least)Did some research... thanks to kindprincess...
As the mythbusters would say... this myth is busted
kindprincess
Well-Known Member
surely, and i'm glad we're on the same page. however, you are failing to see what i'm getting at.
what you say or insinuate can instigate problems. ie.....
"let's be friends, bitch"
o.0 contradictory, no?
make a conscious effort to snub the problems. my "attitude" here is for a reason. after all, they don't call me kindprincess for nothing...
what you say or insinuate can instigate problems. ie.....
"let's be friends, bitch"
o.0 contradictory, no?
make a conscious effort to snub the problems. my "attitude" here is for a reason. after all, they don't call me kindprincess for nothing...
SmokeThisSmokeThat
Well-Known Member
well i guess thats were we bump heads.. ive never felt the need to have or display an "attitude" in a forum... when i said
"sheesh its just a forum, dont get ya panties in a twist"
i wasnt referring to the people in the room wearing panties... its only a phrase... i didnt mean to offend the ladies in the room
All im saying is, everything i say is all in good fun.. i would never let a website get me the least bit frustrated or angry.. we're all very good at what we do, and we all have a broad outlook on our opinions and how we do things... sorry if i offended anybody, i'd hate to be the "jackass of RIU"
"sheesh its just a forum, dont get ya panties in a twist"
i wasnt referring to the people in the room wearing panties... its only a phrase... i didnt mean to offend the ladies in the room
All im saying is, everything i say is all in good fun.. i would never let a website get me the least bit frustrated or angry.. we're all very good at what we do, and we all have a broad outlook on our opinions and how we do things... sorry if i offended anybody, i'd hate to be the "jackass of RIU"