Short bushy plants. How to stretch them in veg

I know this a bad problem to have but...... My plants are too short and bushy during veg how can get them to stretch a bit more? The node spacing is just so close. You can see what is happening in the pictures I posted. These are two tops that I FIM'ed and I am getting no vertical growth, it's just stacking on the nodes. You can see the PH meter in the pictures showing how tall they are. The wifi is 7 inches and the lemon diesel is 10 -12. These are under a chilled tech 500 watter running 75% at most. I had it at 50% and this is the stacking I got. I have just raised the light to 24 inches from about 18 inches. The PPFD is around 400. I am on a 18/6 light schedule. I am using an organic mix with down to earth dry amendments, added to coco loco. They are in 10 gallon fabric pots. The stems are rock hard. I usually clean them out underneath before flipping them to flower. What am I doing wrong? I want taller and wider plants. The temps are low eighties and the humidity is in the mid 40's.

Short, compact plants with short internodal space — you're bragging, not complaining, right?

Seriously, those are desirable attributes because that means that you're going to have a lot of foliage and a lot of colas.

You've got a 500 watt Growcraft. Is it their veg spectrum or is it the "full cycle" (flower) light?

How are you measuring PPFD?

No, I am not bragging. I know this is desirable but they are just so tight and I want them to spread out more. I love all the tops of course. I cut and train for them. The Chilled light is the full spectrum. I am measuring the light with the photone app. I know it's not perfect but should be close. Yes, I use the defuser.

Homergrown said:

No, I am not bragging. I know this is desirable but they are just so tight and I want them to spread out more. I love all the tops of course. I cut and train for them. The Chilled light is the full spectrum. I am measuring the light with the photone app. I know it's not perfect but should be close. Yes, I use the defuser.

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"bragging" was tongue in cheek…

I ran Photone on an iPhone XS Max using a Growcraft flower light and it Photone read 16% high. It was consistently high across all four dimmer settings, which is good, but the bottom line is the it was highly inaccurate. I used my Apogee as the baseline, which was reading just over 2% high. That test was one of two tests that I've done with Photone and that's one reason why I recommend Photone only as the fourth choice. A $32 Uni-T (bluetooth) is as inaccurate as an Apogee (they're both calibrated to 5%±).

Chilled is the only manufacturer that I've seen that publishes lux and PPFD data. The factor to convert lux to µmols is 0.162

Re. getting a plant that short under the flower light - my hunch was that you were using a veg light for that. The diminutive size and the curling of the vegetation makes me think that something else is at play.

I vegged my last grow for 41 days with a Growcraft veg light and ended up with the proverbial shrubbery. Like your grow, it was a total PITA to work with in the early stages. But that was a veg light - I don't understand how you got "veg light effects" from a flower light. The only saving grace was LST and the plant ended up being wider than it was tall.

Maybe that's the next step for you - open the canopy as much as possible. With fabric pots you can punch some holes around the edge and use pipe cleaners to hold down the branches. The branches are pretty thick so tread carefully. With all that vegetation, mold could be a problem. The plant below got mold in the buds. We had a cool, moist spring. I had a big dehumidifier running but didn't have enough fans under the canopy.

Insofar as removing foliage from the under carriage, I take off anything that won't turn into a smokable flower and to remove branches that are smaller than a pencil. Maybe that guideline will help?

That’s crazy lol. Some of the leaves look like a revegged plant. Probably dimming the lights will help with stretch

These are the lights I have, they are full spectrum. https://chilledgrowlights.com/our-products-services/commercial-led-grow-lights/growcraft-x3-500w-led-grow-light-commercial-grade I do stretch, bend, tie and top. These two are from seeds. thanks for the thoughts.

Something does not look right very dark leaf with a lot of twisting. looks like a ph problem.

thumper60 said:

Something does not look right very dark leaf with a lot of twisting. looks like a ph problem.

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I PH both water and soil and things are fine. the one top was bent around for pictures. It's nothing wrong they are thriving just not getting tall.

Homergrown said:

I PH both water and soil and things are fine. the one top was bent around for pictures. It's nothing wrong they are thriving just not getting tall.

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No. Something is wrong. Ph or overfeeding is my guess.

Homergrown said:

I PH both water and soil and things are fine. the one top was bent around for pictures. It's nothing wrong they are thriving just not getting tall.

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For sure there is a bit too much available N in your mix; that’s why they are so twisty. You don’t really get N toxicity from organic soil like you do from soluble nutrients but too much N can stunt them and cause abnormal growth. Either way watering as normal is the easy fix.
Could also be from low stress training you obviously have been doing but tight nodal structure like this is what you want before the flip. Raise the lights as high as you can and let them grow awhile longer. I would dial back the light dimmer knob even more if you can; help them stretch. Go to something like 60% until they start to show pistils. They will probably get even stretchier after the flip…

Richard Drysift said:

For sure there is a bit too much available N in your mix; that’s why they are so twisty. You don’t really get N toxicity from organic soil like you do from soluble nutrients but too much N can stunt them and cause abnormal growth. Either way watering as normal is the easy fix.
Could also be from low stress training you obviously have been doing but tight nodal structure like this is what you want before the flip. Raise the lights as high as you can and let them grow awhile longer. I would dial back the light dimmer knob even more if you can; help them stretch. Go to something like 60% until they start to show pistils. They will probably get even stretchier after the flip…

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It is an all organic grow. I have only given these water. thanks for the help

Homergrown said:

I PH both water and soil and things are fine. the one top was bent around for pictures. It's nothing wrong they are thriving just not getting tall.

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Damn fine looking plants afaic. The plants are small because you're giving them massive amounts of light. Raise your lights or use the dimmer and give your plants something to strive for... they'll grow taller by reaching for the light.

You've also been using topping and training techniques that keep the plants smaller. Those techniques will alter your apical dominance and push growth out that is bushier. It's possible that the genetics you are running would have naturally been short and bushy, and when you performed those techniques it amplified that effect.

Homergrown said:

It is an all organic grow. I have only given these water. thanks for the help

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Of course; just because you didn’t put it there doesn’t mean there isn’t too much available N. Either way just keep on doing what you have been plants look good; everyone has given sound advice. Good luck & happy growing