Shroom Grow Need Help

cnettex

Well-Known Member
I have a couple questions, I bought the “lets grow mushrooms” dvds and I have to say I thought they would have been better for the price but I still got a lot of great info so it’s all good.

On the straw pasteurization they show a soap soak then go into pasteurization.
1. Do you have to rinse the soap out before you pasteurize in heat?
2. Do you have to drain the water before you make straw log or just punch the holes in the bottom and let the water drain on its own?

My house is between 70 and 76 Fahrenheit depending on the temp out side.
3. Do you think I need an incubator for mycelium in my grain jars to grow?

I'm going to be growing on Ecuador and Texans I can’t find what the best way to grow these two strain is
4. Manure or straw?
 

jimbizzzale67123

Well-Known Member
Alot of those videos are on youtube, Roger Rabbit over at shrommery.com is the one that made them and post them on youtube.

I haven't delt with the straw before BRF cakes are pretty easy.

You should join the shroomery there are a few people here that grow mushies but you will get quicker responses over there.

Here is my tip, dont love them to death.
 

jimbizzzale67123

Well-Known Member
You dont need a incubator I made one used it and then didnt use it and they actually semmed to colonize faster without it.

Believe it or not they like light when they are colonizing.

Brown Rice Flower cakes are pretty easy watch the PF tek its what beginners should start with.

If you use grain you need a pressure cooker, if you use verm and Brown Rice Flower you can sterilize with steam.
 

pH'

Member
The mycelium of Psilocybe cubensis grows best at 86F, it will grow at your ambient temps but not as vigorous, it won't "thrive at those temps.

If you were growing in a sterilized media you'd have a better chance of pulling off a grow at those temps because the mycelium wouldn't have to compete with any other organisms and cubies actually fruit perfectlly at your ambient temps (75-77F is ideal).

Being that you already have ideal temps for fruiting I would highly suggest building an incubator. First of all your spawn has to be generated and it will also grow best at 86F. A spawn jar will fully colonize in 10 days to 2 weeks at ideal temps.

Next after you innoculate your pasteurized substrate, your mycelleum will only have 10 days to colonize the substrate otherwise a contamination will more than likely set take hold and you will more then likely lose your crop.

If you dont incubate it can take your jars a month or more to colonize under sterile conditions- and on the pasteurized straw, another organism whose ideal temps are 75ishF will contamonate the substrate before your mycelium has fully colonized.

I would think that if you were to chemicly pasteurized straw, (soap), that you would not want to rinse it because the rinse water would need to be sterile other wise youd more than likely add a competing organism plus it would effect the moisture levels of the substrate and cubie mycelium needs the straw at feild capacity in order to colonize it, if anything a little dry would be better than too wet.

If you have nevver grown mushrooms I suggest you start with the PF tek and research better than just watching a vague video. anyone can do it but you HAVE to do your research and focus.


edit...BS about the mycelium growin well in light. Light triggers fruiting, if your mycelium has enough nutrition before it fullyt colonizes it can start pinning and go to fruit before it has fully colonized the sub. Mycellium grows best in the dark and is not photosensitive other then it triggers fruiting. The sub needs to be full colonized otherwise it is going to contaminate because something else will grow there and it will likely be toxic. When a substrate is FULLY colonized it can be exposed to open air and will NOT likely contaminate if the environmental conditions are ideal for your shroom because it already has the substrate within its control.
 

jimbizzzale67123

Well-Known Member
Thats bad advise, everyone use to say incubate your cakes. But then it was discovered that inside of the jars it is 10 degrees warmer so if your room is 70 its 80 inside of the cake.

Go to the shroomery and they will give you good advise, dont listen to PH I doubt he even grows since he is using old school techniques that is completely outdated.
 

pH'

Member
Yyou should get involved in the omc, sign up to a mushroom forum.

And yes that is what I came back to write- After a few days your sub will heat up byitself, it is called thermal genesis and depending of the size of your sub it can get really hot even kill itself, a cake or a jar wont get too hot but if you have several in incubation you'll need to turn your incubator down. If you don't start at ideal temps tho and your doing a bulk sub (AKA OLD SCHOOL ACCORDING TO HOMEBOY), or cakes , they wont easily pick up the momentum to get that warm.

So you need to monitor the temps and turn down your incubator.

And if you're such an expert jizz, then why is your advise to ask someone else, and how come you think pf tek is new school or more advanced then bulk sub?
 

jimbizzzale67123

Well-Known Member
Im not an expert, thats why Is sent him to where experts are. Instead of telling him to do things that aren't helpful and actually could ruin his grow.


But thats my style I can see you just like throwing out whatever is off the top of your head.

I know for a fact that 86 is too hot and actually slows growth down, look it up hotshot keep giving out bad advise people love it.
 

pH'

Member
Psilocybe cubensis is a tropical species and it likes it warm. The ideal temperature is 86F until the bag contents are completely white. It will tolerate temperatures down to 74F but growth will be much slower. After complete colonization the ideal temperature for mushrooms is 74-78F, which is around normal room temperature. If you must heat your mycobag try to avoid temperatures over 86F. Psilocybe cubensis dies at 106F. Don't place a mycobag directly on a heating pad or the bottom will dry out.​
Here is what I quoted- Anywhere else will tell you the same thing, and like I said you can grow them at 75ish but it will slow things up.

Jizz-here is the deal. If you are growing in sterilized jars you can grow them at 45F but it will take 6 months but the inside of the jar, whether it is a brf cake or grain spawn it is sterile so that is possible, it is sealed off and should not contamonate. When you grow on "pasteurized" straw, it is not sterile (it is pasteurized) nor is it sealed in a container so it HAS to colonize within 10 days or it will contaminate.

Anyone who doesnt say that cubies ideal temp for mycellial growth is not 86F is mis informing. Yea there are ways to bend rules and you can get away with certain things, that is why I said you CAN grow at 75, but when someone who doesn't know what they are doing is asking how is it done you dont tell them how to slack. I it is your ffirst attempt at growing shrooms you dont slack off and expect good results, once you know what you are doing, since you know what you are doing you will know when where and why to bend the rules.

Peace-
 

RyanTheRhino

Well-Known Member
Im not an expert, thats why Is sent him to where experts are. Instead of telling him to do things that aren't helpful and actually could ruin his grow.


But thats my style I can see you just like throwing out whatever is off the top of your head.

I know for a fact that 86 is too hot and actually slows growth down, look it up hotshot keep giving out bad advise people love it.
i second his opinion 86 is too hot you want 75-80 because its warmer inside the jar due to the mycelium de-composing the medium in a chemical reaction

The higher the temp the faster the colinazation. so it will give your mushies a head start on bacterias and other molds before they can grab a hold and ruin your grow
 

RyanTheRhino

Well-Known Member
Oh and why do the straw method, it will give you a bigger yield but you will need some practice. that is alot harder compared to the BRF cake methods. but maybe you have good luck
 

pH'

Member
Did either of you know that in cool tropical climates that the mushroom in question does not even grow? Thats right, in places like Hawaii panaleous species grows but psilocybe cubensis does not grow in the wild. Yes there is a strain of cubies called "Hawaiians" that was introduced into the market by Pacific exotic spore company but there are no wild cubies in Hawaii unless during the summer there is an extended heatwave.
This is because cubensis mycelium grows best when "soil" temps are at a study 86F. If the soil is cooler, micro-organisms whose ideal temps are within that cool range choke out any chance for a cubensis to grow, however when a heatwave hits and temps are closer to 86F in the soil then cubies have a chance and in some rare cases a cubie can be found growing with panaleous in a Hawaiian cow pasture. In South America, Aisia, and the American south west where the summers are hot and soil temps are around 86F for extended periods of time, cubensis thrive.

What you guys are not comprehending is that with pf/brf cakes you are introducing clean spores into a previouslly STERILIZED medium that is in a sealed sterile container. You use a syringe to inject the spores so that you might not introduce any competitor organisms and you do so under sterile conditions. You have to keep the jar closed and sealed until the whole thing is colonized because the medium has to remain sterile until its colonized. Because it is sterile besides the mycelium that you want in there you don't necessiraly need a perfect growing environment because the mycelium in the jar has no competition. Do you understand that?

When a medium is pasteurized the organisms that live in it are not all killed as with sterilization. Pasteurization is a more selective process then sterilizing. The whole idea of pasteurizing in this case is to keep certain organisms alive so that in the end you have a biological communityu that helps your mycelium and even acts like a digestive aid and "immune system" type relationship.

When straw is pasteurized there are still alot of microorganisms on the straw and they are still alive, unlike with sterile culture as in brf cakes; these microorganisms arre benificial so you want them, however as soon as the straw has cooled it is vulnerable to contamination because it is not under sterile conditions (straw substrates needs alot of fresh air exchange).

When you innoculate pasterized straw you do so with live mycelium that was grown in a jar usually under sterile conditions, you break it up and mix it into the straw. When you break up the spawn it has to recover and this normally will take 48hrs maybe less maybe more. If it takes too long to recover other micro-organisms will take over the sub before your mycelium does.

When the spawn is broken up it cools down and is no longer generating its own heat. Once it recovers the mycelium that recovers is diluted in volume by the straw and WONT generate heat until it is thriving and spreading out onto the straw and until a significant ammount of straw is colonized by the mycelium it wont generate enough heat to keep itself at 86F (fungi is not warm blooded). Once thermalgenesis is significantlly warming the sub now added heat is necessary and might become a danger.

The chances of your mycelium recovering and taking hold of the straw sub before something else does is greatly streangthened if the environmental conditions are ideal for cubensis whis is 86F(SOURCE http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4TSNA_en___US367&q=ideal+temps+psilocybe+cubensis). Just like if it gets too hot or if co2 levels rise too high, something else will take hold.

Also, understand that in a room that has highs of 77F, a kitty litter tray full of thouroghly wetted straw in a dark closet covered loosely with saran wrap has a tendency to stay even cooler then the ambient room temp and unless the temps rise within the substrate, those conditions alone will not facilitate the growth of cubensis but something else will grow instead. All you have to do is stick a light bulb (keep the light off the sub til its time to fruit)or a reptile stone in there and it is officially an incubator. After the sides of your tray are warm to the touch (from within the tray) reduce the ambient temps. Once the sub is colonized you can expose it to open air and fruit at whatever temps you want, ideally in the upper 70's. With fruiting too your shrooms will be bigger your canopy fuller and your flushes more apleanty the more you adapt the environment to their liking.

Peace-
 

Dj1209

Well-Known Member
I have a couple questions, I bought the “lets grow mushrooms” dvds and I have to say I thought they would have been better for the price but I still got a lot of great info so it’s all good.

On the straw pasteurization they show a soap soak then go into pasteurization.
1. Do you have to rinse the soap out before you pasteurize in heat?
2. Do you have to drain the water before you make straw log or just punch the holes in the bottom and let the water drain on its own?

My house is between 70 and 76 Fahrenheit depending on the temp out side.
3. Do you think I need an incubator for mycelium in my grain jars to grow?

I'm going to be growing on Ecuador and Texans I can’t find what the best way to grow these two strain is
4. Manure or straw?
Haha those kits and videos are so over priced you don't need any of that just make up a LC and BRF...
 

canndo

Well-Known Member
According to the Master - Paul Stamets:

Spawn Run:
RH 90%
Substrate Temp 84-86 degrees F - thermal death limits have been established at 106 Degrees F
Duration 10-14 days
Co2 5000-10000 ppm
Air exchanges 0

Post casing pre-pinning:
RH 90+ percent
Substrate Temp 84-86 F

Primordia Formation:
RH 95-100 percent
Air Temp 74-78 F

Cropping:
RH 85-92 percent
Air Temp 74-78 F


I have found that cropping can continue at as high as 86 degrees but water loss and comensurate substrate shrinking occurs. Incubation at 86 F is a bit dicey because of thermogenisis (as some here have stated) but even then, with a 10 degree rise in such small amounts of substrate you are still nowhere near thermal death. I commonly keep my run temps at 82 simply because pushing it can cause sweating and exuding metabolites. YMMV.
 
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