SIMPSONSAMPSONs soon-to-be-but-not-quite-there-but-will-be-soon 4000w journal

this 600 v 1000 is just a can of worms ...but either way both ops sound sick sureshot... ur 4x1000watter were runnin in2 a 240 controller when u were pulln 6kw per hr?

hey simpson werethe hell did you go. must be getting sum building done.

waz up tile.

cold chilling..old ladies home..leaving me alone for the moment..

tilemaster said:

I think your gonna need to be pulling cool air thro the hoods..so youll wanna hook your open ends up to a intake ........hell maybe a 12'' fan will do it passivly..but if you could have that fan pulling intake air over your hoods and then out..that would be the ticket

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i think passively it would pull plenty of cool air.. i want to get some fresh air into the room tho.. the only way i could do that is to remove the a/c from the window.. build a box around the inside of the window.. and attach the duct to that.. i could crack the window a few inches and leave it all year.. know what i mean?? then use sureshots idea of pushing the air over the bulbs instead of pulling with one fan.. and setup another 6" fan that splits off to pump fresh air into the veg and flower room.. does that make sense?? basically i would have 2 ducts pulling air from the box.. one would be a 12" fan for the lights and the other a 6" intake for fresh air that feeds the flower and veg rooms... sound good??

Sure Shot said:

I've run a similar setup before.
Here's my advice.
Push air over your lights instead of pulling it.(Your fan will thank you)
I used a 8"Vortex fan inside of a 14" flexduct.
Then I used a 14x8x8 Y adapter. After the Y I used the two 8" ducts with reducers to cool 2 lights a piece.
Then exhausted into the attic.
On top of that I had a Portable A/C to keep temps inline.
As well as oscillating fans and a small fan pulling air off the ground and up to the ceiling.
This was a very costly operation!
I was pulling about 6kwh in just my grow room!

I have now moved away from that design in favor of 600w'ers!!
They are by far the best way to go.
A 600w bulb can be put closer to a plant then a 1000w bulb.
And at 2ft. distance a 600w way outperforms a 1000w at 3ft away!
And 2 600w covers 6x3 @ 1.2kwh while 1000w covers 4x4 @ 1.0kwh.

So instead of getting 4 1000w to cover roughly 8x8.
You should get 6 600w and cover roughly 9x6.
4-1000w = 4.0 kwh
6-600w = 3.6 kwh

With 6 6's I would recommend using 1 fan for each set of 3.

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hey there SS.. glad you could stop by... first before you read my response i want to thank you VERY much for the input...

heres the thing tho.. if i can cool the lights enough i can keep them closer... if i can keep the 1000w lights at a foot or less, which is my goal, then ill be more than fine...
would you agree that 1x1000w light 1ft above a 4x4 area is better than a 600w over the same area at the same height?? my thinking is that i can get a soild 3ft to 4ft of canopy penetration because that lights will stay cool enough i can keep them right above the canopy.. basically.. after long internal debates, reading, and talking with my partner its definatly gonna be the 1000's we go with... which also means if im wrong and temps get crazy i will have to increase the amount of exhaust...
i think you have something tho in pushing the air.. the distance the fan would have to push the air to get passed the lights is less than they would have to pull the air... and if build the box around the window like i want i will have a steady supply of cool air to keep them cool...

tilemaster said:

this 600 v 1000 is just a can of worms ...but either way both ops sound sick sureshot... ur 4x1000watter were runnin in2 a 240 controller when u were pulln 6kw per hr?

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mygirls said:

hey simpson werethe hell did you go. must be getting sum building done.

waz up tile.

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hey MG.. yea i was busy as shit... i was bleaching the hydro system parts getting it ready to use... just getting things all ready for the big move.. found out i will save almost $750 going through this new hydro guy over my other store i used.. that was nice..



OK.. i lied.. a little.. ive still be kinda fenced on wether i should do the 600s or 1000s.. my gut says 1000s.. but i still have a small seed of doubt.. i WILL do WHATEVER it takes to keep the 1000s cool so dont base the answer to what im going to ask on heat issues.. but would you do the 1000s or the 600s and why??

simpsonsampson420 said:

i think passively it would pull plenty of cool air.. i want to get some fresh air into the room tho.. the only way i could do that is to remove the a/c from the window.. build a box around the inside of the window.. and attach the duct to that.. i could crack the window a few inches and leave it all year.. know what i mean?? then use sureshots idea of pushing the air over the bulbs instead of pulling with one fan.. and setup another 6" fan that splits off to pump fresh air into the veg and flower room.. does that make sense?? basically i would have 2 ducts pulling air from the box.. one would be a 12" fan for the lights and the other a 6" intake for fresh air that feeds the flower and veg rooms... sound good??



hey there SS.. glad you could stop by... first before you read my response i want to thank you VERY much for the input...

heres the thing tho.. if i can cool the lights enough i can keep them closer... if i can keep the 1000w lights at a foot or less, which is my goal, then ill be more than fine...
would you agree that 1x1000w light 1ft above a 4x4 area is better than a 600w over the same area at the same height?? my thinking is that i can get a soild 3ft to 4ft of canopy penetration because that lights will stay cool enough i can keep them right above the canopy.. basically.. after long internal debates, reading, and talking with my partner its definatly gonna be the 1000's we go with... which also means if im wrong and temps get crazy i will have to increase the amount of exhaust...
i think you have something tho in pushing the air.. the distance the fan would have to push the air to get passed the lights is less than they would have to pull the air... and if build the box around the window like i want i will have a steady supply of cool air to keep them cool...





hey MG.. yea i was busy as shit... i was bleaching the hydro system parts getting it ready to use... just getting things all ready for the big move.. found out i will save almost $750 going through this new hydro guy over my other store i used.. that was nice..



OK.. i lied.. a little.. ive still be kinda fenced on wether i should do the 600s or 1000s.. my gut says 1000s.. but i still have a small seed of doubt.. i WILL do WHATEVER it takes to keep the 1000s cool so dont base the answer to what im going to ask on heat issues.. but would you do the 1000s or the 600s and why??

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if your not going to have a heat problem and you have the floor space id go with the 1000's for the lumens. better penatration and in myeys harder all around better buds.

oh and glad to hear thing are coming together for ya bro. can't wait to see this setup.i just might be jealous

The good old 600 vs 1000 Ive been looking for that answer myself and for me I think the 600s are what Im going with but Im only trying to light a 4x8 op and 2-3 600s will do that for a bigger op it would mean more money since you would have to buy 6-600s to get what 4-1000s would cover

mygirls said:

if your not going to have a heat problem and you have the floor space id go with the 1000's for the lumens. better penatration and in myeys harder all around better buds.

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mygirls said:

oh and glad to hear thing are coming together for ya bro. can't wait to see this setup.i just might be jealous

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see thats what i think too.. but never having used them i dont know what to think.. but everyone i have heard and read that said they started with 600s always ends up getting 1000s.. but i never hear the opposite.. well except sureshot..

Smokiethebear said:

The good old 600 vs 1000 Ive been looking for that answer myself and for me I think the 600s are what Im going with but Im only trying to light a 4x8 op and 2-3 600s will do that for a bigger op it would mean more money since you would have to buy 6-600s to get what 4-1000s would cover

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see the thing is 2x1000s would cover the area i have actually.. i mean its only 63 sq.ft... the idea i have is to make it so my flower room doesnt have any dark spots and that evey inch of the plant is completely light saturated.. i want the largest yield i can get and want to make sure i get as much as i can off every inch... it might be a little over kill... but i want to get massive yields... the money isnt the issue either.. i mean... if the 6-600s would be better i would spend the money for them... i just think dont know if 6-600s at 1ft. above canopy would be better than 4-1000s at 1ft above canopy... in a room the size im going with...

simpsonsampson420 said:

see the thing is 2x1000s would cover the area i have actually.. i mean its only 63 sq.ft... the idea i have is to make it so my flower room doesnt have any dark spots and that evey inch of the plant is completely light saturated.. i want the largest yield i can get and want to make sure i get as much as i can off every inch... it might be a little over kill... but i want to get massive yields... the money isnt the issue either.. i mean... if the 6-600s would be better i would spend the money for them... i just think dont know if 6-600s at 1ft. above canopy would be better than 4-1000s at 1ft above canopy... in a room the size im going with...

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See you are right at twice the sq. ft. as me So really you could go either way Im just like you though I cant make up my mind...you should look at Old Frogs journal he has one room with 6-600 and one with 2-1ks

simpsonsampson420 said:

OK.. i lied.. a little.. ive still be kinda fenced on wether i should do the 600s or 1000s.. my gut says 1000s.. but i still have a small seed of doubt.. i WILL do WHATEVER it takes to keep the 1000s cool so dont base the answer to what im going to ask on heat issues.. but would you do the 1000s or the 600s and why??

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This is one thread that interested me in 600's.
This guy pulled 14lbs. off 10 600w'ers!

I think more coverage is better then more light since me and you both give the plant more lumes then the sun, but not as good coverage.

Side note:
If money is no issue then let me suggest this.
Cool your lights with your CH/AC!
I have a friend who is an A/C tech. and fellow grower.
He has multiple rooms and that is how he does it.
The air coming out your A/C duct is VERY cold!
Even though it is moving relatively slow it will keep your lights cool.
I did it last summer when I wasn't worried about the Elec. bill.
I teid into my CH/AC and piped it through the lights and also ran a Y into the room for fresh air. It worked great.

i have heard of some people saying that they went from 1000 to 600 because they can get the ligth closer and ends up being more efficient. although that might also depend on if you do sog or grow big and need penetration.

simpsonsampson420 said:

yeaon them... but i am sure when i have kids about the time they are 2 or 3 is the time daddy starts smoking somewhere else... behind locked doors...

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i used to think like that, but kids are smarter than you think. you will end up losing credibility lying to them.


someone i know had a 5 year old who put seeds in his ear. dr had to check him out because of failed hearing test. the doctor pulled out 5-6 "apple seeds"

i wonder if the doctor knew what it was. lol

my friend felt real bad but i think its just the stigma of it being illegal. what if your stupid kid put anything else in his ear? no big deal.

that fucked up..knowing the docs around here there'd probably be a child protective services person called if ur kid had 'apple seeds' pulled out of there ear in our hospital.

Sure Shot said:

This is one thread that interested me in 600's.
This guy pulled 14lbs. off 10 600w'ers!

I think more coverage is better then more light since me and you both give the plant more lumes then the sun, but not as good coverage.

Side note:
If money is no issue then let me suggest this.
Cool your lights with your CH/AC!
I have a friend who is an A/C tech. and fellow grower.
He has multiple rooms and that is how he does it.
The air coming out your A/C duct is VERY cold!
Even though it is moving relatively slow it will keep your lights cool.
I did it last summer when I wasn't worried about the Elec. bill.
I teid into my CH/AC and piped it through the lights and also ran a Y into the room for fresh air. It worked great.

Click to expand...

ok... so coverage wont be a problem... that was originally why i wanted to use the 1000w's in the first place.. well.. let me back up a little...

first i will only be growing about 12 large monster plants... so penetration is very important.. if i can still maintain good penetration with more 600's i will use them.. but from what i have understood 1000's penetrate further... so i can either add more plants and make them a little smaller or grow a few less plants and make them bigger.. ie the 600's or the 1000's...

now, if you break my flower room up into 4 sections, you get 4 - 3.5ftx4.5ft areas.. take away a little bit for walking and each quadrant is now abut 3ftx4ft... so each 1000 would only cover about 12 sq.ft to 15 sq.ft..

if i go with the 1000's there will only be, at most, 2 ft in any given direction around the reflectors that is not covered directly by a reflector... thats between the wall and reflectors and in between the reflectors themselves... so like i said coverage is great.. also this gives me about 9500 lumens per sq.ft. assuming 150,000 lumens per bulb..

if i use the 600's my flower room willl basically be a soild canopy of lights, which by no means is bad.... but it makes me wonder if heat will be more, plus the difficulty of working around that many lights, raising and lowering, ect ect... plus it will drop my lumen count by about 1000 lumen sq.ft.. assuming 90,000 lumens a bulb...

does this change your mind??

also.. the a/c is actually in the same room the flowering room is... i could fix something and pull the cold air from the a/c and use it directly for cooling the lights... which i wouldnt mind as keeping the lights as cool as possible, regardless of which i decide, is the most important thing... that along with a coupled off air intake for fresh air to both veg and flower should keep the room plenty cool.. the floros i use barely raise temps to 90F without the a/c on at all... so im far more concerned with keeping the hps lamps cool cause thats where almost all the room heat would be coming from...

bgmike8 said:

i have heard of some people saying that they went from 1000 to 600 because they can get the ligth closer and ends up being more efficient. although that might also depend on if you do sog or grow big and need penetration.

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well like i said.. i will do WHATEVER i have to do, either way, to keep the lights cool to the touch.. i want to keep them as close to the canopy as i possibly can... and i know this can be done as ive talked to a few growers who have accomplished it... i guess the main argument im trying to decide is if 4x1000s or 6x600s are better because either way they will both be at about the same height above the canopy...

bgmike8 said:

i used to think like that, but kids are smarter than you think. you will end up losing credibility lying to them.



someone i know had a 5 year old who put seeds in his ear. dr had to check him out because of failed hearing test. the doctor pulled out 5-6 "apple seeds"

i wonder if the doctor knew what it was. lol

my friend felt real bad but i think its just the stigma of it being illegal. what if your stupid kid put anything else in his ear? no big deal.

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i wont lie to my kids... dont ask dont tell.. LOL but if they ever would catch me or ask questions i would be honest with them.. my parents lied to me about a buncha shit growing up.. i would never put my own kids through that.. just try to avoid it as long as possible..

tilemaster said:

that fucked up..knowing the docs around here there'd probably be a child protective services person called if ur kid had 'apple seeds' pulled out of there ear in our hospital.

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oh hell ya.. well obviously around here is a little different since it isnt decrim or anything yet.. but kids go to CPS, you go to jail...




oh.. and GOOD MORNING GENTS!! hows it goin today?!?!

Shit cold kickin it.. hmmm on the whole 1000watt debate and 600.. i guess i do c 1 advantage with the 6's if u bought 3 lumetek dual ballasts..that might be the shit.. id like to c how that breaks down in comparison for kwph with the 1200w dual lumetek vs. standard switchable 1000w ballast. but i think it would be cheaper for the 4 1000watter intially. dont know on the bill ..but Jack is runnin that same system off a 30amp breaker..and 240v not even seein a big bill. so if the bill is the debate..thats a hole nother issue..that could be related to other factore..like peak on off billing..and regional specific prices for electricity. I think as a whole u know wut ur electric has been costing U SS and seems like that aint ur concern..I think id do for 1000watters if i could control it.

tilemaster said:

Shit cold kickin it.. hmmm on the whole 1000watt debate and 600.. i guess i do c 1 advantage with the 6's if u bought 3 lumetek dual ballasts..that might be the shit.. id like to c how that breaks down in comparison for kwph with the 1200w dual lumetek vs. standard switchable 1000w ballast. but i think it would be cheaper for the 4 1000watter intially. dont know on the bill ..but Jack is runnin that same system off a 30amp breaker..and 240v not even seein a big bill. so if the bill is the debate..thats a hole nother issue..that could be related to other factore..like peak on off billing..and regional specific prices for electricity. I think as a whole u know wut ur electric has been costing U SS and seems like that aint ur concern..I think id do for 1000watters if i could control it.

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power consumption is no issue either way.. thats the least of it... biggest concern is heat removal, which i think from everything ive read and shit wont be any issue... and penetration/coverage... we know the 1000's will penetrate better... and i think that the room is small enough that coverage should be MORE than fine... i guess its the 1000s really for me.. i mean... if the room was larger and i was trying to cover a bigger area than i think i would go with the 600s tho.. but i would prolly end up at the 1000s no matter what i did...

im going with 240v ballasts for sure as is... i dont know if the 1000s are dual or if they only make 600 duals or not... at any rate.. i think im stickin to the 1000's... so i wll have to control it.. which, with all your guys help and brain power, wont be a problem at all...

now.. as far as this whole air thing goes....

i have 2 windows in the room i could use to bring in fresh air... the first one has the a/c in it... and i really think i am going to set that up to just cool off the lights.. i would rather have super cool lights and the 5 to 10 degree difference it makes now... mainly because the lights would add way more heat than that.. so it makes more sense to just cool them than try to cool the room and use that cool air to cool them.. make sense??

the other window i have is a small sliding window.. like maybe an 8" high and 3ft wide... its small.. but it faces the front street of my house.. do you think if i used this window as a fresh air intake.. built some box around it or something... kept it cracked a little.. just enough to be able to pull air in from outside.. that it would be suspicious being cracked in the winter??? or do you think i can get away with it?? there wont be any light leaks or anything.. but i worry (call it paranoia) of someone seeing it cracked ALL year and wondering why.. or some fuckin kid seeing it when im not home and trying to break in through it... the biggest thing is if i build a box or whatever around it once its opened, its opened.. unless i climb on my roof to shut it.. well i guess i could always build a hinged box so i could open it and close and open the window as needed for intake.. right?? sorry guys.. im just sorta thinking out loud and rambling...

they should make a lock for that window at home de shit.. latch that fucker so it cant be moved and stays open a 1/4 inch. then build ur box..but first hand a really fancy set of like babmboo blinds up..they usually come with bracket so they dont sway and can be posisitoned into place..then box lined with eggshell carton from the inside..and a flange to pull from. I dont see how that would look too suspicious.. idk

tilemaster said:

they should make a lock for that window at home de shit.. latch that fucker so it cant be moved and stays open a 1/4 inch. then build ur box..but first hand a really fancy set of like babmboo blinds up..they usually come with bracket so they dont sway and can be posisitoned into place..then box lined with eggshell carton from the inside..and a flange to pull from. I dont see how that would look too suspicious.. idk

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its not so much in the summer that im worried about it.. more so in the winter... just cause it does face my street and you could see that it was opened.. but.. i guess an open window isnt enough to spark any real concern right...

also...

would it be a good idea to just use a window to pull air from to cool the lights instead of using the a/c?? reason i ask this is i think it would be REALLY strange to see an a/c until in a window in the middle of winter.. and not just in the window setting, but actually running.. or am i just being a little too paranoid?? fuck.. i got it... the intake for the a/c is outside the window.. so if i build a small frame around the a/c inside the window and attach the duct and fan to that to pull cold air during the summer.. during the winter i can just turn the a/c off and it will pull air in through the a/c unit itself, from outside, and i waa laa.. problem fixed.. right?? does any of this make sense?? im fuckin tore up right now.. LOL

Sounds gravey...man im soo ripped this mornign all ive done is watch cartoons and check on rui all morning..

tilemaster said:

Sounds gravey...man im soo ripped this mornign all ive done is watch cartoons and check on rui all morning..

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glad im makin some sense...

i remember when i was a kid and id wake up early on saturday mornings to watch cartoons.. hours and hours of GREAT cartoons every saturday... and now they suck.. for the most part.. there are a FEW good ones to watch.. but they have def lost a lot since i was a kid... teenage mutant ninja turtles.. the orginal ones.... xmen... bumpy and squishy.. pepperann... gi joe.. mortal kombat... there was just so many... and now what.... dora the explorer?? sponge bob?? (which can be ok.. but i have to REALLY be tore up to watch it)... i dunno.. i just think kids these days are missing out..